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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 08-17-2004, 09:16 PM   #51
HAL-9000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathar
Mercury was once originally considered as a coolant for nuclear power plants. Upon extensive studies and tests, it was eventually decided that it was far too dangerous and toxic to use, and this is even for the fission nuclear energy crew. If these guys think it's too toxic and dangerous to consider using it while sitting atop a controlled nuclear explosion, the average home user has no real right to think that perhaps they know better.
Actually, the Soviets used a mercury-bismuth cooled reactor design in some of their submarines in I think the early 70's. The "advantage" was that since the moderator is so much denser, the overall reactor size shrinks, and you can use a much denser core. You get a higher reactor P/W ratio that way. As a matter of fact, the U used in all naval reactor fuel rods is supergrade...better than weapons grade in enrichment. Anyways, not only is it toxic, but the bismuth component is a pretty inert solid at room temp. In other words, you could never turn the reactor off or else the coolant would "freeze" in the reactor, and you would have basically a inert, unworkable toxic disaster. Commies do the weirdest things without fully thinking through the consequences! Just had to throw some useless trivia in here...sorry.

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C'mon, you mean you guys haven't heard of The Darkness? Not that they're a fantastic band, but their songs seemed to be getting air-time even when I was in the USA a couple of months ago.

My singing voice makes baby Jesus cry. Milli Vanilli were bad, but even with their real voices they were far better singers than myself.
That's funny...my buddy got the album two days ago and I listen to it every day to work this week so far! I thought they were Brits...

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Unread 08-17-2004, 09:16 PM   #52
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updated text file
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Unread 08-17-2004, 09:33 PM   #53
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I think its an excellent article. The only problem is that the reader doesn't know the writers reputation. Who can you beleive nowadays. Everything is pretty much based on hands on experience, and see it to beleive it.

Opinions.

- maybe further detail on pump head height: For every 90 degree elbow add a foot, for every WB add a foot, etc. etc. Something like that.

- T-line part about being at top. Now, when someone who doesn't know better reads this part, he/she is gonna think to fill the system with the T-line at the bottom and wonder why it's not filling up properly.
Maybe go into explanation that air will travel to the highest point of the system.
T-Line doesn't need a cap on it just as long it's at the highest point of the system. yada yada yada.

- Another downfall of Mercury. (Besides the obvious POISONOUS part) Has the ability to expand rapidly. Needs excessive open space to allow for expansion.
No big deal.

Good job overall.
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Unread 08-17-2004, 09:42 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars
I think its an excellent article. The only problem is that the reader doesn't know the writers reputation. Who can you beleive nowadays. Everything is pretty much based on hands on experience, and see it to beleive it.
look at the disclaimer at the top of the article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars
Opinions.

- maybe further detail on pump head height: For every 90 degree elbow add a foot, for every WB add a foot, etc. etc. Something like that.
I am not going to make guesses like that, especially when different styles of fittings make for different pressure drops. thanks for the idea though


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars
- T-line part about being at top. Now, when someone who doesn't know better reads this part, he/she is gonna think to fill the system with the T-line at the bottom and wonder why it's not filling up properly.
Maybe go into explanation that air will travel to the highest point of the system.
T-Line doesn't need a cap on it just as long it's at the highest point of the system. yada yada yada.
Mine's at the bottom, fills fine. Fill to top, turn on pump, keep filling until no more bubbles.

T-line doesn't need a cap even if it's at the lowest point in the system, better go read that myth again.

thanks for the input
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Unread 08-17-2004, 09:52 PM   #55
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I agree with T-line being at the bottom being fine. Have a 5/8" T on the inlet to my pump at the bottom of the case on one of my systems. Allows for easy filling. Turn the pump on and just keep pouring water in - the pump pushes the water through the loop. The top of the T-hose can happily sit below the top of the water cooling loop.
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Unread 08-17-2004, 09:55 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenman100
look at the disclaimer at the top of the article



I am not going to make guesses like that, especially when different styles of fittings make for different pressure drops. thanks for the idea though




Mine's at the bottom, fills fine. Fill to top, turn on pump, keep filling until no more bubbles.

T-line doesn't need a cap even if it's at the lowest point in the system, better go read that myth again.

thanks for the input
lol.

Your defineately seeing things then.

There must be slightly different gravitational pull in florida after the hurricane.

Water will always, always level out exactly horizontal. Your trying to tell me that your system is completely full and the T-Line tube is open and hanging at the bottom of your system and no water comes out??

Either one of us is not clarifying, or one of us lives underwater.

Post pictures.
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Unread 08-17-2004, 10:03 PM   #57
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Mars - go fill up a bucket full of water

Take a glass - submerse it totally in the bucket.

While the glass is underwater turn it upside down and lift the bottom of it out of the water surface.

Let me know if the water pours out before the opening of the glass is clear of the water surface.

Same principle.
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Unread 08-17-2004, 10:05 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars
lol.

Your defineately seeing things then.

There must be slightly different gravitational pull in florida after the hurricane.

Water will always, always level out exactly horizontal. Your trying to tell me that your system is completely full and the T-Line tube is open and hanging at the bottom of your system and no water comes out??

Either one of us is not clarifying, or one of us lives underwater.

Post pictures.
My tee line is not the highest point either, no water comes out.



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Unread 08-17-2004, 10:28 PM   #59
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haha, the article helps one of our very own!
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Unread 08-18-2004, 05:59 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
My tee line is not the highest point either, no water comes out.
Gravity rocks like that.
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Unread 08-18-2004, 06:18 AM   #61
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Default Pumps & EM Fields

I'm not sure if this is fact or fiction but I've heard people say that placing your pump too close to your HDD is liable to cause data corruption. Perhaps clarifying this would be a good addition to your wc myths.

And incidentally hello to everyone .....be nice, I'm new
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Unread 08-18-2004, 08:37 AM   #62
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I'm not sure if this is fact or fiction but I've heard people say that placing your pump too close to your HDD is liable to cause data corruption. Perhaps clarifying this would be a good addition to your wc myths.
'tis total and utter fiction.

Unsure of the exact figures as I've forgotten them by now, but basically the magnetic effort required to flip a bit on a hard drive platter is really quite high, and the disk drive heads only achieve this by sitting ~1 micron or so above the platter. The amount of magnetic force being applied by the write head at that level is about equal to a rare-earth magnet, which is about 50x stronger than your average "fridge" magnet.

At even the 1cm distance from the platter to get to the casing of the hard drive, since magnetic field strength drops proportionally to the distance squared, we're talking about a magnet force needing to be about 100 million times stronger than a the write head to achieve data corruption.

Since the pump is typically about 10cm away from the hard-drive, we're now talking a magnetic field necessary to corrupt data to be about 10 billion times stronger than the disk write head. That sort of magnetic field strength is something you'd notice as anything ferro-magnetic that got within about 10 meters of the pump would get sucked to the pump with tremendous force.

Last I check, pump's magnetic fields weren't causing me to dodge flying metallic objects in my room - but I could be wrong...
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Unread 08-18-2004, 09:12 AM   #63
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damn, I guess that explains why things were flying around the basement, I had BOTH the pumps on!
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Unread 08-18-2004, 09:13 AM   #64
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I don't know if this counts as a 'myth', but how about a comment regarding which (if any) has the best flow: a t-tube, inline res, or integral-to-pump res.
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Unread 08-18-2004, 01:43 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruiner
I don't know if this counts as a 'myth', but how about a comment regarding which (if any) has the best flow: a t-tube, inline res, or integral-to-pump res.

depends on the t-line, res, and integral to pump res in question I'd imagine

Quote:
Originally Posted by email from JoeC
Excellent summary!! I'll post this tomorrow - a very nice job! Thanks
for taking the time to write it up - a very nice compilation.

Best - Joe




Joe @ www.Overclockers.com

now, how about that $100, eh guys?
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Unread 08-18-2004, 05:21 PM   #66
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If i had to 'stab in the dark' i'd say that the res/pump would have the best flow. A non-restricted inlet on the pump would be the big part for a res combo, im sure... feel free to rip me apart if you like.

Tim, im putting this up at a forum that I moderate, with full credits of course. I assume you have no problems with this. Cheers
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Unread 08-18-2004, 05:59 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etacovda
If i had to 'stab in the dark' i'd say that the res/pump would have the best flow. A non-restricted inlet on the pump would be the big part for a res combo, im sure... feel free to rip me apart if you like.

Tim, im putting this up at a forum that I moderate, with full credits of course. I assume you have no problems with this. Cheers
I'd agree, but again, depends on design of each

no problem with you posting it, though I'd appreciate a link!

I can register at the forum and post it if you'd like
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Unread 08-18-2004, 06:53 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
My tee line is not the highest point either, no water comes out.




Your T-line is also not at the bottom of the case and open.

I agree, if your FILLING UP your system with the PUMP ON and your T-Line is on the INLET of the pump, the pump will push the water through, and shouldn't worry about an air lock. I've done this countless times. Let the pump do the work.

I'm not gonna sit in front of a computer to argue. And I didn't mean for me to be sarcastic.

I like to see it to beleive it. If a person cannot show me that an 'Open T-Line at the bottom of your case will not leak water' than I am gonna do it myself. I have a spare heatercore, pump, waterblock and I am gonna orient them in a box at specific heights as it would be in a computer case. More truth comes out through hands on experience than it would through pages of a notebook. The conclusion, if need be, will have jpegs.

Heck, what I'll even do is mount the radiator in my car upside down and see if I can still fill it that way. Ha!
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Unread 08-18-2004, 07:03 PM   #69
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Open - meaning unplugged? Sure it works. How do you think the water got put in there in the first place?

It doesn't pour out. Because the rest of the loop is air-tight, there is no way for air to get in and displace the water already in the loop. Since there is no air displacing the water, the water stays where it is - inside the loop.
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Unread 08-18-2004, 07:08 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars
Heck, what I'll even do is mount the radiator in my car upside down and see if I can still fill it that way. Ha!
you're getting a little rediculous.

here's a pic for you, no cap, pump not running.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN0654 (Small).JPG (56.3 KB, 45 views)
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Unread 08-18-2004, 07:21 PM   #71
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Holy shit I just realized that there are THREE D4's in there... What's your flow like? And where's you rmotherboard?

Quote:
I like to see it to beleive it. If a person cannot show me that an 'Open T-Line at the bottom of your case will not leak water' than I am gonna do it myself. I have a spare heatercore, pump, waterblock and I am gonna orient them in a box at specific heights as it would be in a computer case. More truth comes out through hands on experience than it would through pages of a notebook. The conclusion, if need be, will have jpegs.
Make sure the rest of the system is completely sealed. Also, if you turn it upside down then the water will flow out displacing air and be replaced by air. It's useless to turn it upside down. It's a vacuum in there other than water. The air is not as dense as water so it can't move through the water and create something other than a vacuum.

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I see that he fixed that. I think his e-mail sig used to be Joe@overclockers.com which was very confusing to say the least seeing as that wasn't his e-mail address.
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Unread 08-18-2004, 07:28 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars

Heck, what I'll even do is mount the radiator in my car upside down and see if I can still fill it that way. Ha!
That will not work.

The top of the water line in the T-Line tube needs to be upright or air will be allowed to pass by and break the seal. If greenman took the t-line tube in his pic and pulled it down farther the water would not make a solid connection around the entire tube and air would be allowed in which in turn will make the water come out.

I have done this numourous times but I still always like the T-Line to be higher than the rest of the system for 2 reasons.

1) What if a leak happened? Pump casing or gasket fails? Hose clamp not on well? Ooops, water all over the place. Make sure it is capped when finished filling.

2) I find that air bleeds much faster when the t-line is higher than the rest of the system. Maybe that can be a myth, but my personal experience shows it is true.
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Unread 08-18-2004, 07:34 PM   #73
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I just thought of another myth! (Closer to a flame, but whatever)

"Liquid3D has some sort of clue what he's talking about"


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Unread 08-18-2004, 07:43 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee116
2) I find that air bleeds much faster when the t-line is higher than the rest of the system. Maybe that can be a myth, but my personal experience shows it is true.

tis the truth, but not easy with top-mounted radiators.
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Unread 08-18-2004, 08:04 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenman100
tis the truth, but not easy with top-mounted radiators.
Sure, wasn't knocking your system or anything. Got to do what you got to do.
My next system may have the fill tube on the rad itself. I was thinking about installing it like you have it there and drilling a hole ontop of one of the tanks and another hole through the case and solder on a copper or brass pipe with a threaded end for cap. The pipe will stick up just far enough above the top of the case to fit the cap on.
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