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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 07-24-2003, 07:28 PM   #176
hydrogen18
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DANG!!! that pump is powerful! I reeeeaaaly want to get one now!
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Unread 07-24-2003, 08:30 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
They have a fixed magnetic field, because they're made with permanent magnets, so you can't hold them close to a monitor...
By "too close," do you mean 5" or 5'? I just don't want to have a CRT sitting ~1ft from my case to go crazy due to my pumps (Kinda annoys fellow LAN'ers for some reason )..
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Unread 07-24-2003, 10:10 PM   #178
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probably a stupid question but how do you get a psu to run when it isn't hooked up to a computer? I got my pump and want to tes it out
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Unread 07-25-2003, 03:49 AM   #179
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trit187 - You take the ATX connector and you take a wire and short the GREEN wire on the ATX connector with a BLACK wire. Disconnect to power down.

hmmm bigben2k do you suggest doing what you did with the cappasitors and the diodes, fitting them into the pump housing?

i want it to work well as well as looking neat. I would really love to look at the pictures you took of the inside of the pump
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Unread 07-25-2003, 04:10 AM   #180
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I used an old AT style PS with the built in switch.

My johnson(pump) seems to be somewhat loud. Is it supposed to be a loud pump or quiet. My pump is mounted horizontally with the enclosed bracket. With rubber grommets on the bolts. As I was writing this I just noticed one of the bolts is touching the bracket bolt so the rubber isn't doing too much. I'll report back once i get a good isolation
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Unread 07-25-2003, 11:29 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally posted by dima y
hmmm bigben2k do you suggest doing what you did with the capacitors and the diodes, fitting them into the pump housing?

i want it to work well as well as looking neat. I would really love to look at the pictures you took of the inside of the pump
Since87 recomends putting the caps as close to the pump as possible, or as he put it: "as close as you dare", referring to the leads coming out of the pumps. I just took it one step further.

I'm already halfway into the next roll, so I might rush these pics, and get them up in about a week. I've got a complete set of shots of the innards.
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Unread 07-25-2003, 11:33 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yo-DUH_87
By "too close," do you mean 5" or 5'? I just don't want to have a CRT sitting ~1ft from my case to go crazy due to my pumps (Kinda annoys fellow LAN'ers for some reason )..
My monitor has no response to the pump sitting right up on the side of it, so the permanent magnets don't seem to have any effect.

The pump wasn't running though, so I can't tell you about EMI.
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Unread 07-25-2003, 11:36 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally posted by sevisehda
I used an old AT style PS with the built in switch.

My johnson(pump) seems to be somewhat loud. Is it supposed to be a loud pump or quiet. My pump is mounted horizontally with the enclosed bracket. With rubber grommets on the bolts. As I was writing this I just noticed one of the bolts is touching the bracket bolt so the rubber isn't doing too much. I'll report back once i get a good isolation
It's supposed to have a small "whir". When I opened it up, I noticed that the surfaces of the brushes were scored, so the brushes don't make a full contact. I don't know if it's intentional or not.

The pump would have to be encased with something to block the noise, but since it can run fairly warm, some ventilation would be required.

I plan to use a couple of heatsinks I have, and bend them so that I can thermal Epoxy them onto the pump housing, and see if I can cram them inside the shroud to my heatercore (heads down, aka motor up).
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Unread 07-25-2003, 10:14 PM   #184
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Ordered mine today Those brushes will seat nicely in a short amount of time. The pump will also get quieter....though I don't know if we will be able to tell it over the water noise. The amperage will also increase and with a DC motor -so will the RPMs and the GPH. Small high-frequency line noise should also decrease as the brushes seat.

BTW, I used to seat R/C car brushes by running the motors in a glass of water. The water put a nice load on the motor, kept everything cool which prolongs the life of the magnets, and washed out the dust from the housing.
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Unread 07-26-2003, 02:57 AM   #185
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Quote:
I used to seat R/C car brushes by running the motors in a glass of water.
So your saying I can run my johnson submerged and it will work better/longer.




j/k
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Unread 07-26-2003, 08:37 AM   #186
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Well...not exactly. Pure water is not conductive at 12V -so that part is fine. But as the motor runs it will put carbon in the water -which is conductive. I have no idea how long it will take before that is a problem though. The steel parts are not going to like being wet either -it will accelerate corrosion. The water is a real drag on the armature and will decrease the pumping work the motor can do ... or will increase the amount of work the motor has to do. This will appear as accelerated brush wear and increased current consumption.

High Performance R/C car motors get hot enough to partially erase or weaken their magnets. I don't think the Johnson is going to get hot enough to damage itself -but cooling it is a good idea.

edit: Was that a "Big Johnson" joke?
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Last edited by CoolROD; 07-26-2003 at 09:02 AM.
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Unread 07-26-2003, 08:43 AM   #187
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Common ferrite magnets have a curie temperature (the point at which they completely neutralize) of 450 C and a maximum working temperature of 300 C.

http://www.magnetapplications.com/UK/material_guide.htm

We are not going to have any problem with that.
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Unread 07-28-2003, 07:33 PM   #188
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My next set of pics will include some dual pump action: it works!

They make a nice hum, together. I wasn't able to detect any AC voltages with my poor meter, but I was able to pull a total current load: 3.6 amps (including a small voltage drop). The PSU provided 11.50 volts, without the ampmeter. That should equal (very roughly) 4 gpm (240 gph) with a head of 8.2 feet, according to the power draw chart.

That can't be right.

That's with 42 1/2 inches of 3/4" ID tubing, which at 4 gpm shouldn't drop more than half a foot of pressure.

I'll have to rig up my flowmeter, in another test.

The pump brackets (included with the pump) should be able to isolate most of the noise, with rubber grommets.
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Unread 07-28-2003, 07:53 PM   #189
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Sweet! I am ready for the pics. I really want to see where you used 3/4 hose...I am looking at parallel 1/2s or a 3/4" hose to feed the Johnson when I get it. I have a king 5 GPM flow meter and will relate the pressure drops through my components -maze 3, heater core, etc.

I would love to compare numbers with you or anyone else. That Johnson might be here tomorrow...If it is then I will gather data after work tomorrow. I am also going to compare it with a new Eheim 1048 that I have been sitting on for several months.
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Unread 07-28-2003, 07:57 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally posted by CoolROD
I am also going to compare it with a new Eheim 1048 that I have been sitting on for several months.
He he... this should be good for a few laugh!

Looking forward to trading notes. I'll see if I can rig the flow meter sometime over the next couple of days.

I really ought to get a couple of pressure gauges: I just can't find good ones, cheap.:shrug:
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Unread 07-28-2003, 08:35 PM   #191
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That is true -I have a bunch of gauges -but can't think of many with a low enough scale. I should be ably to find one that will go low enough to verify the pressure head and gpm -through my flow meter- at certain water column heights. If I find a few -I will send you some. I doubt I have any new ones, though...But I will look tomorrow.

It will be easy to time a measured volume through the pump also -to compare to the flow meters to gauge their restriction. Mine has two additional 90 Deg. bends than yours:

http://www.kinginstrumentco.com/7520...7520_7530.html

I bought it off ebay -cheap- with thoughts of including it in my system.
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Unread 07-30-2003, 08:23 AM   #192
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Sorry -no luck finding surplus gauges...
But, mscdirect.com:

P/N 56468473 $6.16 / ea.
0-15 PSI, 1.1/2" Dia., 1/8" NPT Bottom Thread, 5% accuracy


P/N 56469018 $6.64 / ea.
0-15 PSI, 1.1/2" Dia., 1/8" NPT Back Thread, 5% accuracy

P/N 56468556 $6.64 / ea.
0-15 PSI, 2" Dia., 1/4" NPT Bottom Thread, 5% accuracy

P/N 56469091 $7.05 / ea.
0-15 PSI, 2" Dia., 1/4" NPT Back Thread, 5% accuracy

and so on...through 3.1/2" Dia.
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Unread 07-30-2003, 09:40 AM   #193
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I found this one:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...&catname=water

$4.69

+/- 0.2 psi reading scale, over a range of 0 to 30 psi. 2" diameter face. 1/4" NPT connection.

With 0.2 psi graduations, I can read it within 5.5 inches of water column. If I use a magnifying lens, I can get 5 times more accurate (the limit of what we can perceive, reasonably), for +/- ~1 inch.


Edit, for Bill's sake: there is no mention of the accuracy level of this gauge. I can read it all I want, and I can try to get as accurate a reading as I can, but it still doesn't tell me how far off I can be. If it's 5% of full scale, then I may have a margin of error of +/- 1.5 psi.

Last edited by bigben2k; 07-30-2003 at 02:00 PM.
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Unread 07-30-2003, 01:47 PM   #194
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you add a new dimension to metrology, the imaginary set

kinda like using the mile markers by the side of the road
to measure the length of your dick
- ya just gotta look real closely

tell us what is "pro" about this crap ?
take it to overclockers and impress the kiddies, please
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Unread 07-30-2003, 02:00 PM   #195
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Edited: thanks Bill.
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Unread 07-30-2003, 02:23 PM   #196
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there is, as always, somewhat more to it than that

the 'accuracy' of mechanical gauges is not linear, which is to say they will be 'off' by more at their extremes than in the central reading portion

if you want even a semblance of accuracy you need to select gauges that will yield a mid-range reading at your measurement point

and no, interpolation is not a 'valid' measuremvent, just an approximation
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Unread 07-30-2003, 02:59 PM   #197
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BillA -I have an RCM Industries flow meter:
Model 1/2-73-R-10-D
sg =1.0
1/2" NPT Inlet and Outlet
314 Stainless
10 GPM Full Scale (1.5-10 GPM)
The last D in the part No. is a gasketed lens...

Accuracy ± 3% F.S.
Repeatability ± 1% F.S.
Pressure range 10-180 psig.
Temperature -30-212 Deg. F

Is this a venturi type gauge? How does it work?
Do you have any remarks WRT this type of insrrument.

I can generate the pressure to use this gauge for testing if it is worth using...
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Unread 07-30-2003, 03:22 PM   #198
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Mid-range would be ~85 psi, and you won't be anywhere near that, in a PC cooling loop. In fact, you probably won't get to the minimum 10 psi.
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Unread 07-30-2003, 03:43 PM   #199
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That is for certain -but curiosity has gotten the best of me...I just want to know how this thing works. It looks like it has a venturi in it, but that seems odd to me for an instrument designed for a noncompressible fluid. Looking into it -I don't see any kind of moving parts. Plus I am an R&D guy for a mechanical / hydraulic / pneumatics company and this might come in useful for something else...I am always looking to learn!

My Rad. would blow long before that...I have seen it when a friend was blowing up used heater cores trying to "test" them.
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Unread 07-30-2003, 08:22 PM   #200
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So, is there a consensus on the noise level of this pump? I was about to buy a danner mag 3, but this pump is cheaper and doesn't need a relay. Quietness is very important to me - some here have said it was noisy and others that it was silent, so I'm wondering if there is some variation in models...

Thanks,
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