Go Back   Pro/Forums > ProCooling Technical Discussions > General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar JavaChat Mark Forums Read

General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 07-08-2004, 12:57 AM   #351
Etacovda
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dunedin NZ
Posts: 735
Default

Oh dear. My waning respect has turned into distain, im afraid. Not one for knowing how to stop, are you Pug?

Bit-tech has been heading down this road for the last year now; too many idiots with opinions, that look at something and either say 'this is better' or 'i could have done that better' or even to the extent of insulting people over photographs of modding guides!

Suffice to say, I dont read bit-tech even on a weekly basis now Pug.

Im sure you'll understand why.

Yes, get Pug out of the loop. Test one of the high end alphacool kits, a 'what everyone in europe is using' kit, a US high end kit (swifty, dd), a US DIY kit, an aussie kit (silverprop, i guess) and an aussie DIY kit.

I'd love to see that reviewed in the way that only pHaetus does, because it would be unbiased and trustworthy, and a link that thousands would use and benefit from.
Etacovda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2004, 01:28 AM   #352
pHaestus
Big Player
Making Big Money
 
pHaestus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com
Posts: 4,782
Default

Now that I see Pug's kit for submission is directly from alphacool I have very little problem with it. Is it what I think of when I think "german"? No. But looks like a very good kit and it could be that this company will just be the first of the German mfgrs to take advantage of lower resistance rads.

I am personally interested in testing kits for a while because it gives my existing testbed something to do while I tweak and learn how to properly use the new equipment. Purely selfish motivations
__________________
Getting paid like a biker with the best crank...
-MF DOOM
pHaestus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2004, 09:01 AM   #353
BillA
CoolingWorks Tech Guy
Formerly "Unregistered"
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106
Posts: 4,440
Default

a couple of comments
pH, sorry for your having to pick up after me, and Thanks
Blackeagle, if you knew Pug was a troll, please PM me next time so I too may save some time

pH, re system/kit testing
I'm afraid there are 2 bits of info you'll probably want to know; coolant/inlet temp and the flow rate
the temp is easy, the flow rate will require the use of a previously 'calibrated' wb (or rad) from which the dp across the device will yield the flow rate

I am presently testing 'kits' (heat die, wb, pump, rad, and fill and bleed kit - or our res) and those 2 bits of info are key to understanding 'why'

EDIT:
Cathar, did not mean to imply that this exercise was mfgr specific
I just recognized that Swiftech is not an appropriate supplier of true max flow components

Last edited by BillA; 07-08-2004 at 09:32 AM.
BillA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2004, 09:28 AM   #354
firtol88
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: BRLA
Posts: 151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pHaestus
Now that I see Pug's kit for submission is directly from alphacool I have very little problem with it. Is it what I think of when I think "german"? No. But looks like a very good kit and it could be that this company will just be the first of the German mfgrs to take advantage of lower resistance rads.

I am personally interested in testing kits for a while because it gives my existing testbed something to do while I tweak and learn how to properly use the new equipment. Purely selfish motivations
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etacovda
...Test one of the high end alphacool kits, a 'what everyone in europe is using' kit, a US high end kit (swifty, dd), a US DIY kit, an aussie kit (silverprop, i guess) and an aussie DIY kit.

I'd love to see that reviewed in the way that only pHaetus does, because it would be unbiased and trustworthy, and a link that thousands would use and benefit from.
I like where this is heading, the results could be mighty interesting, or not. They might show just what most of us think anyway "not-so-neat, not-so-small, not-so-quiet, and not-so-compact" systems are the way to go. (this won't always be the case )
__________________
-
-
In this corner representing the democrats... Flipper
firtol88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2004, 09:32 AM   #355
olly
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Durham, UK
Posts: 2
Default

Never argue about Politics, Religion, or Women ...... and Watercooling
olly is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2004, 11:03 AM   #356
pHaestus
Big Player
Making Big Money
 
pHaestus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com
Posts: 4,782
Default

Bill my earlier thinking was that I'd begin all commercial kit testing by running the wb on my current test bench. That gives me a "2 for 1" review deal for all the kits off the bat. Then I could look at the dT from wb inlet to CPU and make an estimate of flow rate from that.

Now that I have the Rosemount though to hell with that; I'll just plumb in a cross for water temp and dP measurements I wonder if Maxim has a Labview driver for the MAX6655?
__________________
Getting paid like a biker with the best crank...
-MF DOOM
pHaestus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2004, 11:25 AM   #357
firtol88
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: BRLA
Posts: 151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pHaestus
...I wonder if Maxim has a Labview driver for the MAX6655?
pHaestus clicky not Maxim but this should help.
__________________
-
-
In this corner representing the democrats... Flipper
firtol88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2004, 11:31 AM   #358
BillA
CoolingWorks Tech Guy
Formerly "Unregistered"
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106
Posts: 4,440
Default

slick link
the NI/user support for astd instruments on LabVIEW is great
+ Bob of course, lol

firtol88
are you a LabVIEW user ?
BillA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2004, 11:44 AM   #359
pHaestus
Big Player
Making Big Money
 
pHaestus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com
Posts: 4,782
Default

Doesn't seem like the thing you'd read up on for fun.... (oh wait)
__________________
Getting paid like a biker with the best crank...
-MF DOOM
pHaestus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2004, 11:55 AM   #360
firtol88
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: BRLA
Posts: 151
Default

Just a lowly integrator and SCADA programmer, my partner and I have a small firm.

Anyway I should be able to help at the very least guide you to some of the answers you need.
__________________
-
-
In this corner representing the democrats... Flipper

Last edited by firtol88; 07-08-2004 at 04:14 PM. Reason: Changed most to some after Bill's post requiring digital potentiometers ;D
firtol88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2004, 04:06 PM   #361
Cathar
Thermophile
 
Cathar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by unregistered
EDIT:
Cathar, did not mean to imply that this exercise was mfgr specific
I just recognized that Swiftech is not an appropriate supplier of true max flow components
If that implication existed in this thread - it was not through anything you said.

Swiftech are still "hi-flow" in comparison to a 6mmID, winding tube, Eheim 1046 powered trickler.
Cathar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-23-2004, 05:00 AM   #362
fivecheebs
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Default

I am astounded by the way this thread has evolved. I have been keeping a quiet eye on this thread since the beginning nad it has been a bumpy ride but to bash Pug the way that people have is truely astonishing.

I have, in the past, done business with Pug. He could never, IMO, be accused of being a salesman/spindoctor to improve his bottom line. In fact, its quite the oposite. He encouraged me to wait before placing an order with him to his detriment as it ment i spent less money. IME he has helped people make an informed decision about what kinds of system suit an individuals needs weather that be that he sells the product or not. As for the level of service he gives ..... words honestly dont go far enough to convey how good it is. No im not a Pug fanboy, i cant even say i really know him, I am just a nobody who feels that Pug has been treated unfairly and cant sit by and watch it.

FWIW (im sure not much to most of you lot) I have read the posts and inturpreted them in the same way that Pug has. I dont see Pug as a salesman/spindoctor twisiting and turning your words to his advantage, i see him as an enthusiast with a passion for something different to most of the users on this forum. Users who he has repeatedly seen bash the types of systems that he is passionate about. As this passionate enthusiast he is just defending what he believes in, this is what is being confused for sales speak.

As a novice watercooler (leaving the rad to one side for now) i regard typical US systems as 1/2" and sometimes 3/8" systems with powerful pumps and typical German systems as 6/8mm and 8/10mm with less powerful pumps. I would love to see this thread get back in line to test the above mentioned kits and, if at all possible, a DD kit and a 6/8mm european kit to see the pros and cons of all of them. I dont see why the rads cant just be identicle units for each loop (the BIX2 seems to suit both camps to my novice mind) and just change the tubing and pumps as required by each configuration.

/me retires to bomb proof bunker
fivecheebs is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-23-2004, 06:48 AM   #363
bobkoure
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA - Boston area
Posts: 798
Default

If you test just the waterblocks at various flow rates and control for water temp then you essentially do this. The lower flow rates would represent lower powered pumps and the higher rates higher powered pumps.
As a side note, there are quite a few US systems using 1048 sized pumps. The mystery from the US side is why you would then use 6mm ID tubing (and possibly a radiator of serpentine tubing) to further hamper flow.
For instance, I completely understand using lower powered (or undervolted) fans to reduce noise BUT I don't understand why you would not then do everything you can to let air flow easily through the case. In a parallel way, I also understand using a quiet/silent pump BUT don't understand why you would hamper it with narrow-gauge tubing.

Oh - I also think Pug may have been misunderstood here. IMHO he was done in by the same urge that helped you - he tries to build systems that perform as well as they can - which would mean a better radiator/fans and more flow (either via larger diameter hoses or a more effective pump or possibly both). If I had someone assembling a system for me this is exactly what I would want.

Unfortunately, using a system like that to represent low flow systems in a comparison doesn't answer the question of "are the low flow systems getting nearly the same heat transfer performance as the high flow systems?".
One thing to remember is that this is a group of people who are willing to question one of their base assumptions (high flow performs better). Of course it's a bit contentious. Of course there are folks who are unwilling to be persuaded by words - only actual tests will do it.
IMHO this makes ProCooling a very unusual place on the web. I'm pretty glad they let me at least be a hang around here.
bobkoure is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(C) 2005 ProCooling.com
If we in some way offend you, insult you or your people, screw your mom, beat up your dad, or poop on your porch... we're sorry... we were probably really drunk...
Oh and dont steal our content bitches! Don't give us a reason to pee in your open car window this summer...