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Unread 11-26-2006, 03:06 PM   #1
wallonthefly
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Default 4100 - LBA48 support

I have a spare 4100 unit that I'm willing to use for testing to get LBA48 supported. I know there is hardware and software guru's in the midst of us that have the skills to make it happen. I can't see it being a huge obstacle.

Let me know, thanks.
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Unread 11-26-2006, 06:04 PM   #2
blue68f100
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

Not going to happen. Unless you have ths source code in you back packet. Also there was a batch of promise controlers that had a bug that prevented it from supporting LBA48bit. Snap Elected NOT to Fix the Firmware, even though Promise released a firmware fix. Besides they do not want it to compete against there newer lines.

This has been hounded for 2+ years now. DEAD END
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Unread 11-26-2006, 06:25 PM   #3
wallonthefly
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

So, is this a promise controller firmware issue or kernel driver issue? If this is just a controller firmware issue, isn't there a way to get the latest/patched firmware into this controller?

I know some methods like EEPROM cloning from other lines sometimes work. I'm guessing all of this has already been investigated, but in other threads I hear that it's still very possible if someone just spends some time on it.

I'm far from an expert, so I was hoping to spark new interested. From a NAS appliance perspective, it would appear that big money could be made with this fix.
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Unread 11-26-2006, 06:31 PM   #4
jontz
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

Hey, we are all open to trying something new to fix this, we just can't see a way to make it happen....perhaps there is someone here with the source code in their back pocket. Oh Douglas......
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Unread 11-26-2006, 08:06 PM   #5
Phoenix32
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

Here is the Phoenix 2 cents worth (which usually ends up being a nickel)...

I have not dug deep into it, but from a surface look, the hardware for most 4100 revisions CAN handle LBA48bit. We also know the SNAP OS CAN handle LBA48bit. I seriously doubt there is anything in the SNAP OS that looks to see if the unit is a 4100 and turns it off or anything like that. So this only leads us to one place for the problem, the firmware (BIOS).

If this is the case, and I highly suspect it is, then it CAN be fixed. But here is the rub. To do this "fix" or "Mod", you need someone to go into the firmware and edit it with this fix/Mod. This might sound easy on the surface, but it isn't. Considering the promise controller "patch" and other issues that may be involved here, I doubt it is a simple one line replacement or anything like that. This is going to require someone qualified at reading and writing machine code, and even for them, I doubt it is an easy 1, 2, 3, kind of deal.

Now assuming you have the promise controller patch, and you have someone qualified and capable for this kind of work, where are you going to get the source code? It is not like Adaptec is going to just hand this over on good will. I mean come on, look at how they deal with just the OS. This means someone is going to have to use an EPROM reader and read it direct from the EPROM removed from a board. This kind of reverse engineering can be done, and is done all the time, but it is far from easy or cheap.

Okay, so you got the promise controller patch needed. You got a programmer capable and willing to do this. You have an EPROM programming unit to read the EPROM with. And you hit pay dirt and get a patch made. Now you have to have a way to get it into the other 4100's out there. You got two ways. One, you can replace the existing EPROM with a new one, or have a utility that can be run on the SNAP to update it's firmware.

So now you have a Mod and you have a utility to use this Mod and update the firmware. Now what? Well, you need a lawyer next. Why? Because I sure don't know if you can legally sell a mod like this and I doubt you do for sure either, but I would bet Adaptec would be willing to test it out in court for you.


Can it be done? In my opinion, I think it can be done. In fact, with a decent programmer, a couple SNAPS to work with, and an EPROM burner, I suspect given the small nature of this system's firmware, may not even be as difficult as I make it sound here. BUT! It is not something just a few guys on a forum get together and just say let's do it. YOU NEED those items I mentioned here. You NEED that programmer. I don't know one, do you? If you want this, then you NEED to.

I myself would LOVE to see this get done. But I just don't see it happening. Is there money to be made here? Maybe, but you need a lawyer to figure it out for sure. Now don't get me wrong here, I am not trying to rain on your parade and there is nothing wrong with going against the grain and trying to get it done. Just go in eyes wide open and realize what you are up against. If you accomplish it, I will be first in line to buy your mod and to give you praise. But honestly, I have not seen a programmer capable of this come through this forum yet. When I do, you can bet I am going to ask him/her.

Until then, and I hate saying this as much as you hate hearing it, this is a dead subject until someone can come up with the programmer capable and willing to do this. This requires a Firmware/BIOS Mod that does not exist and Adaptec is not likely to create.
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Unread 11-26-2006, 08:19 PM   #6
wallonthefly
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

Phoenix, thanks for your input, it makes more sense now. We just need that guru programmer!! Where are you great one???

It's been done for Tivo's and other appliances, so I'm hoping someone will do it for the 4100's. To me, it's brain surgery, but for someone that eats and breaths this stuff, it's probably a no-brainer.

How great that would be to have a 1TB+ 4100!!! I would buy a bunch of these Mods.

Someone help us.
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Unread 11-26-2006, 10:01 PM   #7
blue68f100
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

You would then have to modify the PS to support the larger drives. More work for Phoenix.

I have a programmer for the TSOP package. Work on old pc's.

But their is no easy way to install a socket for this surface mount chip.

The CPU upgrade would be easier ...
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Unread 11-26-2006, 10:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

Exactly Dave, which is why it would be better to just do a BIOS flash (if the BIOS is flashable, but it probably is). I don't know about the power supply. I do not know what is in one (yet). Being a 4 drive unit, it may have enough, plus from what I have seen in pictures, it looks like a standard 1U ATX....
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Unread 11-27-2006, 09:14 AM   #9
wallonthefly
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

BIOS flash! BIOS flash!

Ok, who do I need to buy beer for? Let's start somewhere.
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Unread 11-27-2006, 09:58 AM   #10
Phoenix32
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallonthefly
BIOS flash! BIOS flash!

Ok, who do I need to buy beer for? Let's start somewhere.
NOW, you are on the right track and asking the right question. I just don't know the answer...
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Unread 11-28-2006, 01:14 PM   #11
re3dyb0y
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

Snap Tech may know who you need to buy beer for...
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Unread 11-28-2006, 05:30 PM   #12
xenoside
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

Bios flash could allways be done the Old and ugly way if needed : ) iee pull the chip and Eprom it.

all depends on who wants to sacrifice thier 4100 and who has the knowledge to rewrite a bios or at the least leech or modify a compatible bios : )

that is where the fun begins
If time permits later down the line I have done some work with Bio's I could take a look at it.. But I have other problems to resolve ATM lol but i will give it some thought.

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Unread 11-28-2006, 06:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

It would be better to find a dead board and read the bios from it. But it would have to be de-soldered without damaging it. I have the TSOP-40 socket to read the flashram with my programmer.

Then someone with BIOS knowledge would have to re-program it. That will be the hard part.

There was a utility to upgrade the bios in the early 2000 (v1). Don't know if it could be used to load a 4100.
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Unread 11-28-2006, 06:08 PM   #14
xenoside
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

yes if they had at one time built a bios flash or update using that to leech would be the best route actually as it would allow you 2 things, a way to package and push the flash, and secondly you could use it to decode/program some proms and find out what the code and or what level of code is being written. the 4100's look to be a bit more propritary in nature at first glance looking in the box so working on it will be a pain. Although the 4400's are almost mainstream in build design except the drive backplane which is unique.

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Unread 11-28-2006, 06:16 PM   #15
blue68f100
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

Reading through the doc for the updater it's a self enclosed installer, so it may not be of much help.
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Unread 11-28-2006, 06:19 PM   #16
xenoside
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

that can be taken care of also Parsing the install and stoping the install during the parse to extract the files/bins/cabs then going through that can give you the install files and such like I said not the most fun thing to work on but if you have a Will there is a way. I doubt they went though to much to encrypt the installer.

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Unread 11-29-2006, 07:01 AM   #17
wallonthefly
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

I have a unit I'm willing to rip a part.
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Unread 11-29-2006, 07:20 AM   #18
blue68f100
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

Does the 4100 have 2 flashram or 1, and is the BIOS removable? What HW version do you have? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
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Unread 11-29-2006, 05:38 PM   #19
wallonthefly
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

I have 3 units to choose from. One is a Quantum, one is a Dell and one is a SnapAppliance, they're all 4100's.

How do I find out the HW version?

It looks like the BIOS is removable. Regarding the flashram, I'm also not sure. I can take pictures and post them?
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Unread 11-29-2006, 06:13 PM   #20
xenoside
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

I am not sure, but my 4100 has a removeable eprom but The removeable one does not seem to be the Bios . My best edjumicated guess says that the bio's is the intel chip that has there trademark Flash written on it. I think it also has a sticker on it that describes the bios version/SW version on it.

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Unread 11-29-2006, 06:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue68f100
Does the 4100 have 2 flashram or 1, and is the BIOS removable? What HW version do you have? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
I will open mine up and tell you, as well as the PS size and whether or not it can handle bigger drives power wise.
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Unread 11-29-2006, 07:30 PM   #22
blue68f100
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

What kind of package is the BIOS a PCL or TSOP (flashram).

TSOP40 has 20 leads on adjacent sides.

PLCC32 is a square chip with leads all the way around.
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Unread 11-29-2006, 07:47 PM   #23
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

The picture I have of the 4100 indicates that there is a eprom (2732?, photoeye covered (label)) by the ribbon connector leading to the display and IDE header not used. These run on 5 v and require a lot of power to program, not like the flashram. There apears to be 1 flashram located between drives 2 & 3 down about 2". The chip with the label by the power supply looks like a dip, (hw map?).

My programmer should be able to read all of these.
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Unread 11-29-2006, 11:13 PM   #24
Phoenix32
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

Well, I was going to take a picture of my 4100 for you, but the writing on the chips is too faint to read, even with a magnifying glass, so I doubt it would show in a picture.

As a side note, it does look like we are on a good track here, let's not let it drop. This would be an excellent mod for the 4100 and well worth it for the whole herd of 4100's out there.

As for the power supply, it has the same 12V rating as the 4000 has (and 30 watts more total) and we know the 4000 supports some larger drives.
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Unread 12-01-2006, 03:22 AM   #25
wgong
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Default Re: 4100 - LBA48 support

I have just taken a picture of the PCB inside my Dell 705N. Hope it is of some use/interest.

http://home.exetel.com.au/apple2/pic...705N%20001.jpg (1.3MB)

It has a TSOP Intel Flash chip and a socketed DIP14 IC (both with stickers).

info version returns:

Product: 2 - "Laser/Spinnaker: 4 drive IDE" - Platform Bytes "2.2.1"
Server-3.4.790, Build Date: Mar 21 2002 20:16:10
This is the NON-Debug executable, and was built by KEVIN
You are logged in as user ROOT (local)

bios version returns:

PIC Version 1.0, Capibilities 0x00
Failsafe Bios Exists
Failsafe v2.4.437.FS Tue Aug 15 15:23:18 2000

Bios stamp 2.4.437 Tue Aug 15 15:23:15 2000

Plat Bytes 2.2.1

Model Byte 2

Failsafe: -------------------------------L
Flash failsafe sector not locked(30)
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