UV Light to Kill W/C Bacteria

[h4rm0nix]

Well everything is on order, I've got a replacement for my worthless MCP300 on the way, plus I've got some additional John Guest fittings from usplastics.com. (Great Site!)

Lastly, the Tetratec UV 5 clarifier is on its way, should be building the new system a week from now.

I'll be sure to post photos and the results.


H

[CoolROD]

I am looking forward to any input you have about the unit and your results. My UV-5 is also on it's way... I am putting the new W/C system together as I speak. I am trying to set up my web page to post the many pictures that I have taken. I will link to it from here soon. It will take a while to post any temps. though b/c my motherboard is being RMA'd. But that is getting off subject!

[prb123]

I've been running one of these: http://www.aquaultraviolet.com/sterilizers.html for my Aquatic Turtle tank, it has the Wiper, and a small semi-transparant piece to allow you to see if it is working. I have never changed the bulb and it has been running 24x7 for about 2-2.5 years now. Just thought some of you may want to know.

When I first got it I took it apart. It has a huge test tube looking glass cylinder, that keeps the bulb from getting wet.

[CoolROD]

The bulbs are supposed to last longer when left on -or more appropriately: Bulb life is shortened by frequent start / stops. That is what I have read anyway. Has the unit helped your situation? Or did you have a problem before you installed the sterilizer?

[h4rm0nix]

CoolROD-

Sorry to hear about your mobo, I love my Iwill Dual Xeon, but I hate constantly stripping down the system to switch out water blocks or tubing.

I'm really hoping this new system does the trick.

I plan on leaving my UV5 on all the time (5 watts shouldn't hurt too bad), plus giving my system a complete pinesol/lysol/water run for a couple of hours prior to the 24 hour pump/seals test.

I did just order everything today, so I would expect a week or so before everything comes in, then another couple days to get things hooked up properly.

I have to admit, it's rather fun setting the curve on this stuff.

H

[CoolROD]

I am testing my new Johnson pump now...I will post the results in BB2k's thread. I get paid once a month -so I only ordered my UV-5 today. I think I will divide about 1/2 of my flow through it. I have a Quad Typhoon Res. which has 4 ports. I want a 3/4 suction line for my pump and have no problem (I hope) tapping the res. for the 3/4 line. I am thinking about parallel flow through the UV-5 and the other half bypassing it. The barbs shipped with the res. are 1/2 hose to 1/4 NPT (4124-8-4) with an ID of only .3720" --> and an area of 0.1087 in^2.

A 1/2" hose has an area of 0.1963 in^2 , and a 3/4 hose has an area of 0.4418 in^2 .

[h4rm0nix]

Whoa, you've got me beat.

So tell me Cool..what do you use your machine for?

H

[CoolROD]

Well it started out as my dedicated game rig, but now my old computer (a 900 t'bird @ 10xx) is showing it's age...so I have installed nearly everything on the new one...CADs, Corel Draw, Dreamweaver, ... everything but M_Office. I have also gotten really spoiled by the bigger monitor, etc. Full towers fit under my desk and I like all of the room I can get -->I am 6', 260 lbs... I also wanted to keep the case portable so I can go to my buddies' LAN parties on the rare occasion...

This is WAY off subject. The thread has some good information and a lot of work by some others besides myself. I hate to clutter it with chit-chat. Please feel free to PM me -or email me- if you want to know anything else about my rig. I have a renewed interest in it and would love to talk about it. Any pics posted of yours? I am throwing together a web page to post mine right now -and learning Dreamweaver -I swear it was easier writing in a text editer...

[CoolROD]

Got my UV-5 Today! I have to say that this thing in big! Consider this before you buy one:

Overall Length = 7.1/2"
The Cord and Strain Relief will add another 1.1/2" to the length with the cord bent 90 Deg.
The cap is 3" dia.
The Body is 2.37" dia.

The unit comes with nice 3/4" barbs and universal-cut-to-fit .355 / .486 / .637" barbs. Note that the sizes will not be tight on 3/8" and 1/2" hose. The barbs use a flanged sealing surface with a neoprene? :shrug: gasket.

The unit's cord has a "Wall Wart" which is an octagon 2.1/4" across the flats and 2.34" long. The UV-5 is made in the Netherlands and there are markings on it:

MCT Transformatoren GmbH
StSF 5-63-0499 U
Lamp 5W
120V 60 Hz 0,18A
(lambda symbol) 0,45
tw 105
Double Insulated

The bulb is a Philips PL-S 5W TUV UV-C Type.
(Anyone looking to build their own light)

[h4rm0nix]

Well Well Well

I too got my "ENORMOUS UV CLARIFIER"

I would swear this thing is twice the size it shows in the catalog.

Ahh well, I've got the sprinkler head mounted to the side of my case. So much for not making a statement.

Anyways, I've got my system on a preliminary test prior to the 24 hour run..

What do you think about a little pinesol in the system for an hour or so, would it hurt the quartz in the UV Clarifier?


H

[CoolROD]

I think you would be alright with that. I am going to be able to fit it in my case...it's huge! I will post a pic as soon as I get everything fitted. My motherboard will be back late next week. I would love to see your install...

[h4rm0nix]

I un-hooked it for the pinesol cleaning, it's a UV Clarifier for cripes sake! It should be self cleaning..

Now, as far as the case is concerned, I'm amazed you got your's inside the case. This thing is enormous. The sales woman from the supplier said it was " about an inch or so around"



You mean the cord right!!

Regardless, I've found a spot for it and since I am taking the day off tomorrow, I'll go ahead and drill some holes in the side of the case to bolt it on.

I'll try and get some pictures tomorrow afternoon.

Only 40 more minutes to go on my pinesol cleaning.

Oh yeah, one last thing. For those of you like me with lots of Swiftech equipment, they use nifty John Guest connectors. So I swung over to usplastics.com (Thank you Bruce, from CoolTechnica) and got lots of replacement 1/2 OD connectors. So now my UV 5 Clarifier is 100% John Guest quick connects (plus they are 90' elbows so I can get the tubing with NO BENDS.

Also, for those of you following the story, Bruce hooked me up with a great pump, the Hydor L30 is...excellent, quiet, not hot, and easy to switch to John Guest.

Lot's to photograph tomorrow...


h

[Gooserider]

I was wondering how much of the unit was "guts" and how much is plastic housing, fittings, water jacket, and so forth.... I've had this notion for a way of dealing with it.

I'm planning to make my res out of a peice of 1.5" PVC pipe that will run from the top of my case nearly to the bottom. I know the UV light in these sanitizers shouldn't be looked at, so why not loose the extra plumbing and just stuff the 'guts' in the opaque PVC res that's already sitting there?

The question would be whether the thing would take up to much room in the res and obstruct the flow of water around it. I'm just guessing, but if I have an effective plumbing diameter of 5/8" through the system feeding the 1.5" diameter res, I probably wouldn't want to have the OD be much more than about an inch if I want to keep the bulb from being an obstruction. Also, does anyone know if standard white plumbing PVC is effected by UV? If so, it might be necessary to shield it in some way (Line the res w/ copper foil?)

As I recall previous discussions, the bulb was supposedly sealed inside a glass test-tube like item, with just a couple of power wires running to it. How big in length and diameter is the test-tube?

The second issue is the power supply - If the bulb is an incandescent, the wall wart is presumably a transformer to a lower voltage, but not sure what it would be... If the bulb is a flourescent type, the wart is presumably a ballast that steps UP the voltage... A third possibility is that the bulb needs 110V, and the wart is an isolation transformer to give extra electrical safety.

Has anyone looked up the bulb already to see what it needs for juice?

This next is pure speculation, but... Assuming the lamp is a flourescent that needs a ballast, presumably one could find a regular lamp that uses the same general type of bulb and gut it for the ballast. The test tube part might be harder, but I'm sure something could be found. Everything else could presumably be faked by use of a drilled rubber stopper and lots of plumbers goop...

ART

[CoolROD]

I think your res. idea is great. The cap, quartz liner, and active parts from this UV-5 could easily be adapted to your idea. The bulb measures:

I am pretty sure that PVC gets brittle in natural sunlight b/c of the UV it (sunlight) contains -we'll have to check into that.

The bulb is a compact fluorescent, I believe, and contains Mercury Vapor. It is a Hot Cathode type. Here is some more info:

Philips Part No. 046677-38186-3
Desc. Philips TUV PL-S 5
Watts: 5
UV-C Watts: .18 (That is what is on their web site) Althornin......
Nominal Bulb length: 4 in.
Useful Life Hours: 8000 --> Useful Life Listed @ 85% UV Maintenance
Philips Figure No. 16-S

The quartz tube is flanged at the top and is held in by the lid. I can give you dimensions on any of the parts. I plan to post them, or a link to them, soon. Let me know of any specifics you need.

[Althornin]

If thats the actual output of the bulb in UVC power, then set efficiency to 1 and power to .18
it still gets almost 100% per day

[CoolROD]

I saw another page today that claimed that their mercury vapor had 95% 254 nm light-energy let-through ...of the UV light.

Approximately 95% of the ultraviolet energy emitted from Ster-L-Ray germicidal lamps is at the mercury resonance line of 254 nanometers

Other interesting quotes for the UV home-builder:

The high purity fused quartz used in Ster-L-Ray ozone producing lamps is transparent to both germicidal (254 nm) and ozone producing (185 nm) wavelengths.

Cold Cathode Germicidal Lamps -...are instant starting and utilize a large cylindrical cathode instead of a tungsten filament. Due to this construction the lamp is not adversely affected by frequent starting and the life is considerably in excess of other lamp types.

[Gooserider]

CoolROD: I think your res. idea is great. The cap, quartz liner, and active parts from this UV-5 could easily be adapted to your idea. The bulb measures:

Hmmm... I think a couple of bits must have fallen out of your post no numbers came through on my end...

I am pretty sure that PVC gets brittle in natural sunlight b/c of the UV it contains -we'll have to check into that.

Could be, although I've seen a number of installations that use PVC in outdoor applications, and don't seem to make any great effort to cover it. I could be wrong, but I seem to recall seeing something to the effect that NATURAL (clear) PVC has problems with UV embrittlement, so they put white coloring agents in the plumbing stuff to keep the UV from penetrating. Perhaps looking at a pipe mfgr website would give more info.

CoolROD I saw another page today that claimed that their mercury vapor had 95% 254 nm light- energy let-through ...of the UV light.

Is this the same bulb as what you have in your unit? If so I'm confused because earlier you said the Philips bulb was 'hot cathode' but this post implies that it's cold cathode (and better for it) If it's two different bulbs perhaps we need to get specs on both and compare.
Hmm... I just did a bit of poking around on each site, neither is a fountain of information ;( but it looks like the Ster-L-Ray people have both hot and cold cathode bulbs. (with a cold cathode bulb, perhaps one of the modder lighting kits could be used to give it power? (I don't know much about those kits. Since I don't plan to have windows in my case, I've pretty much ignored them....)The shortest length either comes in is nominal 12" w/ bulb holders, 9 3/16" base to base. No mention of diameters. Ster-L-Ray also has the tubes, w/ several different diameters, but no mention of lengths. They offer several 'inline' type units, though it looked like all were pretty big. They also have an item called a 'Tankmaster' that looks like it might work - it has a bulkhead fitting w/ the tube sticking out of it and a ballast. 10" long, no mention of diameter, size of fitting, etc. It appears to use the hot cathode lamp.

The down side of the Ster-L-Ray folks is all their stuff appears to be stainless steel, their sales stuff claims that this is a virtue because the plastic products deteriorate over time. I see it as a potential problem, what is the reactivity of SS in a copper / brass WC system? I know SS is supposed to be fairly inert, but...

I don't have time for it tonight, but they have a 'ask the expert' area, so I may sign in and ask some more specific questions....

Gooserider

[Quarter]

I am pretty sure that PVC gets brittle in natural sunlight b/c of the UV it contains -we'll have to check into that.

The common / standard SCH 40 white PVC pipe does get brittle from UV.

They do make a UV resistant SCH 40 pipe though, it usually has a purple tint to it and will be labeled as such.

[CoolROD]

I was thinking that I have seen white PVC with red (or mabye purple) lettering and stripes that designated it as sunlight resistant, outdoor use, etc. It may be that the PVC for sale at building supply stores is this type and it may well be true about the white pigment...Enough speculation -time for some facts!

Me: The bulb measures:

Yeah -I guess I abandoned or erased the dims. The bulb is U-shaped and is advertised as 4" long. I will bring it home tonight and post the dims. you need tonight or tomorrow. Here are a couple of crude pics of it:


I was in a hurry when I took these and tried not to look at the light. I also didn't know what it might do to my camera...

That "95% UV let-through" quote was indicating the efficiency of the mercury vapor at concentrating the UV light into useable energy at 254nm. Their graph shows a scale from 100-600nm light energy with a strong peak at 254nm. I intended to seed this thread to find out if there is more energy emitted outside of this window (from 100-600nm) to verify the .18% efficiency I saw at the Philips link. There must be a lot of energy lost somewhere and I wanted to know where...infrared, visible light, etc.:shrug: I tend to ask too many questions...but, Visible light is .4-.7 um...

[Gooserider]

Well, after a bit more poking around, I just wrote off to the folks at the Atlantic UV website (BTW they have a sizeable number of trademarks per their privacy policy page) asking for their suggestions, Included the notion of sealing one of their cold cathode lamps in a tube and dropping it in my res.

Interesting pix of your unit. Is the bulb actually in contact with the water, or is there a surrounding tube that you left out of the pix? Assuming you have normal sized hands it looks to me like the tubes are around an inch and a half, and the base is about 2" Might make it a challenge to fit into a 1.5" pipe... However I'm not totally married to that size, so I could possibly have a length of bigger pipe down the bottom, though it will be a real nightmare of adapters... (I even have a big hunk of 4" left over from another project, though I'd hate to stuff something that big in my case.)

Gooserider

[h4rm0nix]

Gooserider,

The bulb lies inside a quartz test tube. That way it never comes in contact with the water. In addition it does not release much heat into the water.

The overall dimensions as reported are accurate, around 3" to 3.5" inches in diameter, approx 7" long, extra inch in diameter at each hose barb.

The barbs can be easily replaced however, they are simple 1/2 inch OD NTPF threads.


h

Hey CoolRod! How many fingers am I holding up??!

Do not taunt the UV Clarifier.

[CoolROD]

Here is the inner liner from the UV5. The small tube is quarts and is cemented to the plastic flanged piece. There is an o-ring that seals the plastic flanged piece to the UV5 body and another that seals the lid to it.

The white area is the cement.

Here is a sketch that might help you...let me know what other dimensions you need. I got lazy drawing the socket b/c it has a lot of detail, but the dimensions are correct.


edit: Are these 800 pixel width pictures too big for this forum?

[CoolROD]

The bulb lies inside a quartz test tube. That way it never comes in contact with the water. In addition it does not release much heat into the water.

I guess that it is a figurative thing, but there is nearly five watts going into the water. That would be the total power put into the bulb minus the heat loss through the lid. Else the unit would heat until it melted or blew up.

[h4rm0nix]

Yes, very figurative.

There is heat add, just hardly noticed..

I'm loving mine.

H

[Gooserider]

Thanks for the great picture, I am starting to see how it could be done, although it would be kind of funky.

(BTW, the pictures seemed to work fine for the width of the screen, I had no trouble with them on my Linux box.)

As to the mod approach, (which would depend on the PVC being resistant to UV, or additional shielding (copper sheet? paint?) being added...)

I am assuming that the bulb basically slides into the socket so that the tube is inside the quartz part, and the base is in the adhesive lined part? Also that there is nothing other than the bulb socket that is vital to operation in the cap...

If so, how does this sound?

1. Neck the bottom 6" or so of the res out to about 2 or 2.5" ID pipe.

2. Put a 'T' fitting on the bottom so that the leg sticks out to the side. Put appropriate reducers and fittings to allow the pump to hook up.

3. Glue the tube assembly into the continuing part of the 'T' so that it sticks up through the fitting into the res pipe. It would probably be necessary to make an adaptor to fit the base (probably use a lathe to turn the hole in a threaded reducer to the right size) and also find an appropriate glue.

4. Hack the cap down to the socket and just enough other stuff to let you tape or clamp it over the end of the tube. (need to be able to remove it for bulb changes, but need light seal when operating)

This would (I hope) provide a non restrictive feed to the pump and get the unit in line w/o taking up to much additional space.

Of course it does require purchasing the entire unit, which as I recall is quite expensive...
This may mean I'll have to go with Airspirit's magic coolant formula for now and consider this mod as a 'phase II' improvement as I'm already overbudget on this... (Idle thought, would it be possible to buy just the quartz tube and the lamp? Would doing so be enough of a savings?)

Hmmm... I've just been reviewing the thread, and following some of the links... Two mildly disturbing notes on the Dr. Foster & Smith web site. 1st is a blurb on the main UV page

Please note a UV sterilizer will not help with string algae.

Now I have noted a distinct lack of information on exactly WHAT kind of life forms inhabit our cooling systems, but at least one description (I think it was Airspirit, but don't quote me) said 'stringy ropy slime' or words to that effect.

2nd is a caution on the 'selection guide page:

Operating Guidelines
While UV sterilizers usually do no harm, do not use one when you first cycle your aquarium, as it may kill beneficial bacteria before they attach to the bio-media or gravel. Also, many medications can be "denatured" by the UV light, so the sterilizer should be turned off when using medications, especially chelated copper treatments. The UV light will "break" the bond of the chelating agent, and the aquarium will have a sudden, lethal concentration of ionic copper.(emphasis added)

This suggests rather strongly that the UV approach is not a total solution, and that some additional biocide is needed...

Gooserider