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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

View Poll Results: Which water block type would You rather buy?
Danger Den S-TDX 6 7.06%
TDX 9 10.59%
RBX 5 5.88%
Dtek White Water 7 8.24%
Swiftech 5000 1 1.18%
Swiftech 6000 11 12.94%
Polar Flo 4 4.71%
Kool Lance 0 0%
Cascade 14 16.47%
Cascade SS (Solid Silver) 28 32.94%
Maze4 0 0%
Maze3 0 0%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 05-17-2004, 10:16 AM   #1
JokerCPoC
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Default S-TDX water block or What?

I tried to include as many blocks as I could in the Poll, Sorry If I possibly missed some oh well, If any.


The SDX as I'd like to call It or as Danger Den calls It, The S-TDX makes the White Water look like an antique as the WW will flow at 2.15GPM (max.) and the S-TDX will flow at 3.05GPM from what I've read and the silver unit cools the best getting a 2500+ Barton to do over 2.9Ghz(see below), That's 400Mhz or so faster than what I do on Air alone. The Comparison/Review is at the link below. But to get the 3.05 You need a pump that will do no less than 300GPH. I'm thinking a 1260 (a relay will be needed) pump or so will be required at the very least, I would have liked to use the MCP600v2(a 12v pump), But It only puts out 160GPH, I've yet to see a 12vdc 300GPH pump from the likes of swiftech, It would be nice If Danger Den could sell/make one, But that's life for You.

http://www.procooling.com/reviews/h...rblock_revi.php
http://reviews.pimprig.com/cooling/...-tdx_blocks.php


Edit: The Danger Den S-TDX is also Solid Silver or about 99.996% pure(100% is as far as I know, Impossible), In addition It has Gold, Copper, etc, As seen in this Photo below:
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Unread 05-17-2004, 10:48 AM   #2
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The 3.05 GPM was with a 500GPH Hydrothruster pump; not sure typical users will have such a monster lying around (or want to use it due to heat generated).

Eheim 1260 is a TERRIBLE choice; lots of heat but not enough pressure to get where you want on my test result curves. I'd think overvolted D4 would be best bet. Actual flow rates in loop will probably be comparable between the MCP600 and Eheim 1260 (but CPU will be cooler w/ Swiftech pump cause less heat is added to loop).

A question: If I had a CPU that could do 3.0GHz with stock AMD heatsink would that make air cooling better than water? I don't follow the rationale of looking at 2.9GHz and assuming a cooling product is stellar.

//edit: Could you shorten your sig to just hit the high points? I don't really care what brand of floppy drive you use
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Unread 05-17-2004, 11:58 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pHaestus
//edit: Could you shorten your sig to just hit the high points? I don't really care what brand of floppy drive you use
ditto

I would buy a Cascade SS and then sell for a large profit?

You could allways try using 2 12v pumps (in series of course)
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Unread 05-17-2004, 12:01 PM   #4
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Yea that works too. Personally I think it's better to spend the $$ on a higher quality pump so you can use a slightly more restrictive nozzle (and possibly add a second rad to lower water temps) than it is to spend the $$ on silver. You can carry the pump with you in future upgrades after all. Though if silver wbs arrived in the mail I would use them
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Unread 05-17-2004, 12:13 PM   #5
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Sorry to hijack the thread, but how're the nozzle tests going on the TDX pH? Well done on the first review by the way
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Unread 05-17-2004, 12:27 PM   #6
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testing is done but I don't feel comfprtable posting the results until I plumb the TDX in a real loop with several pumps (using Eheim 1048, MCP600, and D4). From this I can show the actual flow rate a typical user will see with each pump, and I can make real recommendations of which nozzle will perform better.

Without doing this the results will be misinterpreted (as was the TDX review results in some cases I fear).
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Unread 05-17-2004, 12:29 PM   #7
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a cascade SS would be mind boggling awesome, but if we can get that why not also get the waterchiller?

realistically id like the TDX-S with a ~200watt pelt
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Unread 05-17-2004, 01:22 PM   #8
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looks like O/Cers will have silver TDX review up this week sometime. I don't have any of DD's silver blocks so I'll have to defer to JoeC on this one.
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Unread 05-17-2004, 01:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pHaestus
testing is done but I don't feel comfprtable posting the results until I plumb the TDX in a real loop with several pumps (using Eheim 1048, MCP600, and D4). From this I can show the actual flow rate a typical user will see with each pump, and I can make real recommendations of which nozzle will perform better.

Without doing this the results will be misinterpreted (as was the TDX review results in some cases I fear).
Ok cool pH, can't wait, many thanks for all the hard work.
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Unread 05-17-2004, 01:42 PM   #10
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I selected the Cascade SS (Solid Silver) on waterblock grounds only...
not involving pump considerations or any other factors...
I curently have the Dtek White Water in both my machines.
I would prefer the Cascade SS but out of my $$$ range and availablity...
but I can dream...
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Unread 05-17-2004, 01:47 PM   #11
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kronchev you know a comparison of wbs as a function of coolant temperature would be interesting. The viscosity changes when you change coolant temp, and different designs respond to that in different ways I suspect.
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Unread 05-17-2004, 03:36 PM   #12
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http://reviews.pimprig.com/cooling/d...tdx_blocks.php

Here is a pretty short test of WW, TDX, S-TDX, and RBX. All the DD stuff has HF barbs on it. I wouldn't buy a S-TDX because it's super expensive and Cathar's Tornado/Cyclone/P2 block is going to kick the crap out of it for about $50 U.S. The silver P2 will REALLY kick the crap out of it.
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Unread 05-17-2004, 03:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrost
http://reviews.pimprig.com/cooling/d...tdx_blocks.php

Here is a pretty short test of WW, TDX, S-TDX, and RBX. All the DD stuff has HF barbs on it. I wouldn't buy a S-TDX because it's super expensive and Cathar's Tornado/Cyclone/P2 block is going to kick the crap out of it for about $50 U.S. The silver P2 will REALLY kick the crap out of it.
Hey man be careful with that review around here

You have anymore news on when cathar's next blocks going to be out? I've only seen 'the next 2 months' on his site.
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Unread 05-17-2004, 04:16 PM   #14
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Voted for TDX, but I would change to Dtek WW because I forgot they had plastic tops for them too... Copper top would be my favourite though.
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Unread 05-17-2004, 04:54 PM   #15
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The next block I intend to buy isn't listed above.

So I guess I'll vote "other". Although the block I'm waiting for was named above by afrost, the Tornado/Cyclone.

I wonder how much adding those high flowing barbs to Cathar's blocks would help them out? Doubt it would be much as the main "choke point" is the jet in the WW or the tubes/cups of the Cascade. Still, evey extra bit helps.

Last edited by Blackeagle; 05-17-2004 at 05:01 PM.
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Unread 05-17-2004, 05:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackeagle
The next block I intend to buy isn't listed above.

So I guess I'll vote "other". Although the block I'm waiting for was named above by afrost, the Tornado/Cyclone.

I wonder how much adding those high flowing barbs to Cathar's blocks would help them out?
Where can I find info on this block? I know Cathar has one in development but I thought that was the hydra?
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Unread 05-17-2004, 05:02 PM   #17
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Look in the main phase and water forum here m8.

Thread regarding progress on the Cascade XXX.

Edit:

Hydra has been put on hold, perhaps for good.

Cathar has been saying little regarding this new design. A good thing.

I hope he's found a design that will allow serious production of a block that will beat all others, at a reasonable cost. I further hope he decides to make and market them, or perhaps he can make a deal selling the design to a major maker of blocks like Swiftech, DD, or others. He deserves to make some money in return for all the work he's put into the design of water blocks.

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Unread 05-17-2004, 05:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrost
http://reviews.pimprig.com/cooling/d...tdx_blocks.php

Here is a pretty short test of WW, TDX, S-TDX, and RBX. All the DD stuff has HF barbs on it. I wouldn't buy a S-TDX because it's super expensive and Cathar's Tornado/Cyclone/P2 block is going to kick the crap out of it for about $50 U.S. The silver P2 will REALLY kick the crap out of it.
Wow, explain to me how a performance gap LOWERS when processor goes from idle -->load?
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Unread 05-17-2004, 06:02 PM   #19
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I had to vote Cascade, because I don't believe that I would fork out more money for the SS version, if it was available.
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Unread 05-17-2004, 08:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Althornin
Wow, explain to me how a performance gap LOWERS when processor goes from idle -->load?
the whole point of watercooling is to attempt to keep your temps as low as possible, right? well what WC excels at is keeping your temps THE SAME no matter what. thats why us OCers like it, because aircooling solutions might have the same or lower idle temps, but throw some heat at them and they start to not be as effective. my idle temps are about 2C lower than my full load. taking my 600 mhz overclock off and the temps drop 1C, if at all. compare that to when we put my old chip that I'm talking about into my friends computer (exact same case, Lian Li PC601, same fan setup) with a Zalman 7000 Cu (best aircooler out there), his idle-underclocked temps were the same, but once we OC'd and loaded it he was a good 10-12C higher than I was/am.
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Unread 05-17-2004, 09:01 PM   #21
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I vote MCW-6002. High performance, low price. Cascade SS and Cascade are popular choices, but they really aren't available. S-TDX is what, 125 bucks, with much less than 1C better than the TDX? WW is unfortunately not really available either.
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Unread 05-17-2004, 09:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronchev
the whole point of watercooling is to attempt to keep your temps as low as possible, right? well what WC excels at is keeping your temps THE SAME no matter what. thats why us OCers like it, because aircooling solutions might have the same or lower idle temps, but throw some heat at them and they start to not be as effective. my idle temps are about 2C lower than my full load. taking my 600 mhz overclock off and the temps drop 1C, if at all. compare that to when we put my old chip that I'm talking about into my friends computer (exact same case, Lian Li PC601, same fan setup) with a Zalman 7000 Cu (best aircooler out there), his idle-underclocked temps were the same, but once we OC'd and loaded it he was a good 10-12C higher than I was/am.
Most would say that the Best heatsink is the Thermalright SP-97 Socket A heatsink, Under load My cpu temp is 48c right now, That 7000 heatsink, If the Fan fails, Go buy a New heatsink as the Fan is not replaceable with a better fan or even a New one.
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Unread 05-17-2004, 10:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cougem
You have anymore news on when cathar's next blocks going to be out? I've only seen 'the next 2 months' on his site.
I've broken down the P2 ("storm") design into a series of convenient (for me) classifications - ranging from G1 (trivially to make) to G6 (most complex to make). While G6 level complexity is possible to machine, it technically it carries a number of drawbacks which makes it difficult to use, both in terms of filtering and in terms of an extremely high pressure drop. G5 is about the highest practical level of complexity.

The P2 block I have in my hands now is essentially a G3 complexity block.

I'm still waiting on the G4 prototype (targetted production level block), as well as a G1 prototype, both of which should be in my hands by the end of the week. The G1 is just an experimental proof of concept to see if near-White-Water performance is possible for an absurdly cheap to manufacture block. A G2 block simulates out to around Cascade-level performance.

Assuming that theory meets reality square-on, figure on around 3 months after the prototypes are assessed.
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Unread 05-17-2004, 10:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cougem
Hey man be careful with that review around here

You have anymore news on when cathar's next blocks going to be out? I've only seen 'the next 2 months' on his site.

I know nothing. It seems like Cather has seen the light and is going to make his next block for sure though. The way I look at it is that he learned a lot of valuable lessons with the WW and now he is knows the best way to release the P2. So maybe getting the WW ripped off was actually a good thing since he has more tricks up his sleeve. Now he can go for world domination

Edit....oops Cathar posted right above me while I was writing this
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Unread 05-17-2004, 10:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronchev
the whole point of watercooling is to attempt to keep your temps as low as possible, right? well what WC excels at is keeping your temps THE SAME no matter what. thats why us OCers like it, because aircooling solutions might have the same or lower idle temps, but throw some heat at them and they start to not be as effective. my idle temps are about 2C lower than my full load. taking my 600 mhz overclock off and the temps drop 1C, if at all. compare that to when we put my old chip that I'm talking about into my friends computer (exact same case, Lian Li PC601, same fan setup) with a Zalman 7000 Cu (best aircooler out there), his idle-underclocked temps were the same, but once we OC'd and loaded it he was a good 10-12C higher than I was/am.
BS.
A block has a C/W. This does not change if the processor is at idle putting out 20 watts, or at load putting out 80.

As for your temp story - if you knew anything, you'd know that comparing temps across different mobos is worthless, as well as knowing that comparing WC and air temps is worthless (lack of air movement around the socket with WC), as well as knowing that idle-->load gains you more than 2 degrees. If you honestly believe your proc only got 2 degrees hotter, i have a bridge to sell you...
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