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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 06-28-2005, 07:46 AM   #276
Marci
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Quote:
A 120.2/BA sized core with the FPI and tube count Cathar proposes would show a true comparison, but then you'd also need to take noise into consideration...
In progress / en route...
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Unread 06-28-2005, 08:18 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothar5150
Let me restate the question for you. You created a radiator with a core with a surface area approximately 10% greater than a Chevette heater core. Your data shows that you get 15%-30% better performance that a Chevette heater core.
Actually the PA160 has about half the total metal-air surface area of the Chevette heater-core.

Quote:
A) Is the not predictable given the relationship between surface are and heat dissipation?
At half the surface area? No.

Quote:
B) I am asking honestly, what is the break thru? :shrug:
Achieving better performance with far less surface area.

Read back through this thread. The answers and reasoning are there.
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Unread 06-28-2005, 12:22 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathar
Actually the PA160 has about half the total metal-air surface area of the Chevette heater-core.



At half the surface area? No.



Achieving better performance with far less surface area.

Read back through this thread. The answers and reasoning are there.
Your still 160mm x 160mm yes
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Unread 06-28-2005, 07:54 PM   #279
Etacovda
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suprisingly enough frontal area doesnt equal surface area...
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Unread 06-28-2005, 08:34 PM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothar5150
Your still 160mm x 160mm yes

Hmmm, Lothar, it would seem that you're not quite following the whole line of reasoning on this. It's all laid out in this thread if you want to take the time to read it.

Radiator performance is only partially linked to frontal surface area. The PA160.1 was designed for a singular purpose, but somewhat beyond expectations when using with a single fan will outperform radiators with 20% larger facial area than it, with ~3x the metal-air surface area, by 10-15%.

Now if you're scoffing at a 30-35% improvement in per-facial area performance as being of minor significance then I don't know what to say.

What this thread is about, or rather what it has become, is specifically how to maximise radiator performance across the range of axial fans that water-coolers use, regardless of the form factor, rather than blindly assuming that high-noise high-pressure radial blower driven heater-cores as exist in cars will translate well to the comparitively low-noise and weaker pressure axial fans.

The PA160.1 was just the first. The PA160.1 just fills a very particular niche within a certain form factor and fan-power definition, although fan-power wise it works out well across a very broad set of axial fan powers. Still lots to do for other form factors.

If you really want to understand it deeper, then read the thread, and while doing so, let go of your fixation on facial surface area equating to performance.
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Unread 06-29-2005, 12:58 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathar
Hmmm,
I've been following this thread for a while.

I'm not scoffing at your design. Just trying to see its benefit. I'm a dumb pilot by trade so I'll just wait for the data in graph form.
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Unread 08-20-2005, 06:19 PM   #282
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is there any chance of getting a cadd drawing of the pa160? I'm particularly interested in physical dimensions so I can plan my next box ...doesn't have to be in cadd I can do that myself. Most notably the position of the barbs as offset from the grill area.
Drawings of the shroud would help as well.

thanks
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Unread 08-22-2005, 05:16 AM   #283
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No chance. There's a 1:1 Template for the rad at www.thermochill.com/guides.php with barb positions marked.
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Unread 08-22-2005, 11:13 PM   #284
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LOL ...thanks marci ...I was just there looking around I found:
Overall dimensions HxWxD = 214x166x50mm (90mm inc shroud).. and would have been happy enough with that!
The pdf is more that I could hope for. This has got to be the most user friendly tank I've ever seen for sure ...will help a ton in my design process.


Thanks again
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Unread 02-16-2008, 12:05 PM   #285
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Default Re: No competition, why only HWlabs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathar
What this thread is about, or rather what it has become, is specifically how to maximise radiator performance across the range of axial fans that water-coolers use, regardless of the form factor, rather than blindly assuming that high-noise high-pressure radial blower driven heater-cores as exist in cars will translate well to the comparitively low-noise and weaker pressure axial fans.
Well, for my part, I've gone through the entire thread, and I've found it to be extraordinarily educational - to the extent that I registered just on Pro/Forums specifically to participate in this thread.

My story is that I'm essentially fed up with trying to keep my relatively modest rig cool with air (without driving myself bats with the noise), I want to move to water cooling, and I'm unimpressed by most kits that I see, especially on a price/performance ratio basis.

I may well still go essentially the opposite direction (really big and external, instead of incredibly efficient and internal), except I absolutely insist on quiet fan(s) - no matter what some might mislabel such insistence.

One fan I would like to see tested is the ThermalTake A2330 (e.g. http://www.svc.com/a2330.html ), which is rated at 54cfm at 16dba

While I suspect it is too weak to meet even the relatively modest head imposed by the 160.1, I'm also sure I don't have anything like enough experience with such things to offer anything like a qualified opinion. What's neat about the fan is it's actually 130mm, but is designed to mount in place of a 120mm unit. Since it has a 3 pin connection, I can control it with the fan EQ on my mobo, linked to the temperature of other parts of the system.
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Unread 02-16-2008, 02:48 PM   #286
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Default Re: No competition, why only HWlabs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lloydrmc
Well, for my part, I've gone through the entire thread, and I've found it to be extraordinarily educational - to the extent that I registered just on Pro/Forums specifically to participate in this thread.

My story is that I'm essentially fed up with trying to keep my relatively modest rig cool with air (without driving myself bats with the noise), I want to move to water cooling, and I'm unimpressed by most kits that I see, especially on a price/performance ratio basis.

I may well still go essentially the opposite direction (really big and external, instead of incredibly efficient and internal), except I absolutely insist on quiet fan(s) - no matter what some might mislabel such insistence.

One fan I would like to see tested is the ThermalTake A2330 (e.g. http://www.svc.com/a2330.html ), which is rated at 54cfm at 16dba

While I suspect it is too weak to meet even the relatively modest head imposed by the 160.1, I'm also sure I don't have anything like enough experience with such things to offer anything like a qualified opinion. What's neat about the fan is it's actually 130mm, but is designed to mount in place of a 120mm unit. Since it has a 3 pin connection, I can control it with the fan EQ on my mobo, linked to the temperature of other parts of the system.
Note the last post before yours was made in 2005.

Try http://www.silentpcreview.com/ if you have not already. Pretty much the site for quiet cooling.
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Unread 02-17-2008, 07:15 PM   #287
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Default Re: No competition, why only HWlabs?

We need some more new threads so these oldies don't keep surfacing nice to see new guys posting though
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Unread 10-05-2008, 02:33 AM   #288
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Re: No competition, why only HWlabs?

hello! can anyone explain to me what is GTX platform and Black Ice RXN?

thank you!
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