Go Back   Pro/Forums > ProCooling Technical Discussions > General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar JavaChat Mark Forums Read

General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 12-21-2003, 10:28 PM   #1
Shreder-X
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Clarkson - Potsdam NY
Posts: 24
Default Air-trap or lack there of + "Breath of Pine" Killed Bubbles

Hey,
A few months back i think in october i entered into a discussion on air-trap design. I sort of took a hiatus since i was away at college now i am back from christmas and would like to crack down on this Picture of res. will be forthcoming if i can find it on a 56k connect . The res. is a clear acrylic one with four screw holes two on top and bottom. My goal is to eliminate the bubbles i have a via-aqua pump that is very powerfull and all efforts to dampen the flow rate into the res. have not landed me a reduction in bubbles. I attempted using a pen-tube like a plain white bic without the pen end and drilled small holes throughout it but plugged the end causing it to act similart to a sprinkler hose i inserted this right into the intake valve it was long enough to touch the bottom of the rest and stay in the intake valve limiting its movement. I also tried a quarter pen-case cut and capped at one end and cut a mouth in it so the water would be deflected ******d at a 90 degree not hitting the bottom of the res. but hitting the side hopefully minimizing bubbles but that caused a gigantic whirlwind effect with same amount of bubbles. I took the pen cap and cut it so it just fit into the intake barb and let it restrict the flow with the top there is a small circular opening around it this also had no great effect the force was enough to spray through those small openings enough to hit off of the bottom and cause bubbles. Right now my res. is setup in a vertical positions with the inward water coming into the top and the ******d water leaving the bottom both barbs are not aligned but staggered. Any help would be great sorry for typing i had to copy paste this from an email i sent a guy. i will sketch up a photo hopefully. The system is perfectly functional with the bubbels runs me temps in the high 30's in a heated dorm room running a 2.4c at 3.15 on OCZ 3700 Gold this i know i had it like this for 3 months while at school and never touched it to much work
Shreder-X
__________________
Running:
Lian Li PC-62 (In Retro Spec i guess longer is not better then taller)
ABIT IS7 + Intel 2.4C at 3.15 on 5/4 Divider.
OCZ 3700 Gold 2x256mb
Danger Den RBX
Black Ice Extreme 2
Via-Aqua 1300 - One year and still sorta kicking
This setup was ran continually for 6 Months and not one problem!

Last edited by Shreder-X; 12-22-2003 at 10:06 PM.
Shreder-X is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-22-2003, 12:15 AM   #2
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

Bubbles are greatly reduced when a very porous filter element is introduced into the resevior. The voids trap the bubbles and allow the water to continue to travel through it.

Another way is to keep the intake separated from the outtake by a large maragin, having the intake of the res in the middle of it and the outtake towards the bottom.

Your drawings are hard to understand, mostly because the lines are not straight and very narrow, but I can kinda get what you were trying. Vertical reseviors always work better because it is less likely to suck in air as long as the intake for the pump is on the bottom.

Also, you do not want to restrict the pump intake in any way as it will cause cavitation. This destroyed 2 via aquas for me and created a tremendous amount of bubbles in the system.
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-22-2003, 08:21 AM   #3
Shreder-X
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Clarkson - Potsdam NY
Posts: 24
Default

Here is a link to an Actual Picture of the res i am Using
Thats a picture of my current res. and hopefully you can interprete from my paint drawn picture above what i am attempting. In terms of porous material could you list some. I have available sponges, the air filter from the from of my Lian-Li PC-62 which is like a Air conditioner filter you can see through it. Haven't been able to think of anything else yet. Before i go and lodge these pieces into my res. i am thinking that they will get pushed to the bottom but that may not be bad if it doesn't hinder flow to much or should i leave an air-space near the top of the res. for the sponge or whatever to float on hopefully maintaining its bouyence. More suggestions welcome i will be trying stuff all day today.
__________________
Running:
Lian Li PC-62 (In Retro Spec i guess longer is not better then taller)
ABIT IS7 + Intel 2.4C at 3.15 on 5/4 Divider.
OCZ 3700 Gold 2x256mb
Danger Den RBX
Black Ice Extreme 2
Via-Aqua 1300 - One year and still sorta kicking
This setup was ran continually for 6 Months and not one problem!
Shreder-X is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-22-2003, 11:03 AM   #4
Shreder-X
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Clarkson - Potsdam NY
Posts: 24
Default

Well the first attempt with a sponge failed miserably either it would be pushed to the bottom causing extreme restriction in flow or would be pushed vertical have no effect. I didn't expect it to work after stuffing it into the res. well now its time to take it out. After moving stuff around i came across a T connection i had forgot about and am now thinking of testing a non-res. system with this T and just have a filler tube connected to it.
__________________
Running:
Lian Li PC-62 (In Retro Spec i guess longer is not better then taller)
ABIT IS7 + Intel 2.4C at 3.15 on 5/4 Divider.
OCZ 3700 Gold 2x256mb
Danger Den RBX
Black Ice Extreme 2
Via-Aqua 1300 - One year and still sorta kicking
This setup was ran continually for 6 Months and not one problem!
Shreder-X is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-22-2003, 11:43 AM   #5
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

A sponge is not porous enough, Plus I dont think it is able to fit in the holes for the barbs. The kind of filter I am talking about is made of plastic and is black and is hard to describe. Hmm...
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-22-2003, 02:43 PM   #6
rocketmanx
Cooling Savant
 
rocketmanx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 127
Default

You could try something similar to what's done in a racing dry sump oil tank. They have several baffle screens at different layers from top to bottom that are filled with many small holes. The oil passes through these and traps the air in the oil, oil gets very aireated in a dry sump system.
You could do something similar but with fine holed screen like nylon screen for screen doors. Attach several layers across the res from top to bottom and as the water passes through the holes in the screen they trap the air bubbles.
rocketmanx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-22-2003, 03:54 PM   #7
fhorst
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Almere, The Netherlands (Europe)
Posts: 262
Default

When you bought your via pump (or any aquarium pump) there was a filter "pad" at the intake. It looks a bit like a sponge, but it's a lot more porous.
Why not use that one?
__________________
If it get's hot, it needs to be watercooled!

Last edited by fhorst; 12-22-2003 at 06:05 PM.
fhorst is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-22-2003, 04:41 PM   #8
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

Thats the kind I'm talking about.

Here we go.
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-22-2003, 07:59 PM   #9
Shreder-X
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Clarkson - Potsdam NY
Posts: 24
Default

yes i do have that i don't believe i've held onto the original from the Via aqua but i do have quite similar material used in the front of my llian li case for a filter between fans and outside its quite larger then the two fans i could snip a small enough piece to try. But right now i'am going to do a thorough cleaning of the system. Then try the non-res. setup with a T connections and filler pipe. If no luck then attempt another reconstruct with the res. in circuit with the filter installed in it.
I have run into a problem in the past i have failed to address and worked around since encountering it. When i first got my 2.4c proccessor in August i also bought Ceraminque? Paste supposedly the new high tech thermal compound to use with it. Well it worked great but when i attempted to take the waterblock off the chip i was unable to move it any since it was held in by the black outer casing of the pentium 4 hold-down brace so i slowly applied pressure to try to remove it .. well didn't take much.. pop off came the waterblock and the proccessor still connected thought i was ****ed i had bent a few of the proccessor pins! but very very carefully i bent them back into place and reasemmbled the system. I have not removed the proccerssor since i am very weary of this happening again. Have any of you had similar problems with ceaminique and it holding like an epoxy? Or suggestions on how to remove the block this time?
Thanks
__________________
Running:
Lian Li PC-62 (In Retro Spec i guess longer is not better then taller)
ABIT IS7 + Intel 2.4C at 3.15 on 5/4 Divider.
OCZ 3700 Gold 2x256mb
Danger Den RBX
Black Ice Extreme 2
Via-Aqua 1300 - One year and still sorta kicking
This setup was ran continually for 6 Months and not one problem!
Shreder-X is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-22-2003, 10:04 PM   #10
Shreder-X
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Clarkson - Potsdam NY
Posts: 24
Default

Well i think i solved the puzzle. I purchased a new product today in hopes to clean my system just that much better. It is called "Breath O Pine" its 20% Pine Oil instead of the 15 or 10% pine sol is. Prepping for the cleaning i setup a big bowl with the pump and output from waterblock in it so it would cycle through. The bowl contained just distilled water about a gallon and i let it run for a few minutes boom there are the resultant foaming white bubbles ! But where is the res. not in the system so i'm like damn maybe bacteria something else who knows well lets kill it poured in a tiny bit of the Breath o Pine and BOOM i mean instantanously the bubbles completly desapeared and i mean throughout the system. I was like WOW did this just happen. Well after that the system ran clear or tinted green a little with the pine stuff but i emptied it once 30 min ago and am now letting it run through its second pine anema before bed it will be emptied and run with tap water througout the night to clean out the pine stuff and cycle repeated tommorow enough that i am content i have a kickin clean system that is ready to go. I will of course update and i will make a topic change to denote the find of this Pine soul saving solution. I remeber there was a topic that i learned about the Pine sol from months back i should make an addition onto that thread also if it is not buried. This is all that would come up for the manufactuer of Breath of Pine Explore that if you wish it cost like 3 bucks.
__________________
Running:
Lian Li PC-62 (In Retro Spec i guess longer is not better then taller)
ABIT IS7 + Intel 2.4C at 3.15 on 5/4 Divider.
OCZ 3700 Gold 2x256mb
Danger Den RBX
Black Ice Extreme 2
Via-Aqua 1300 - One year and still sorta kicking
This setup was ran continually for 6 Months and not one problem!
Shreder-X is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-23-2003, 03:58 AM   #11
fhorst
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Almere, The Netherlands (Europe)
Posts: 262
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Shreder-X
yes i do have that i don't believe i've held onto the original from the Via aqua but i do have quite similar material used in the front of my llian li case for a filter between fans and outside its quite larger then the two fans i could snip a small enough piece to try.
DO NOT USE! the filter from your Llian case!!!! The filter that came with your pump is made for constant contact with water. All the other stuff is NOT. It might seem to be working, but after a month or 2 the filter material starts to dissolve into your water!

You got to thrust me on this one. I have a pod for several years now, and tried a lot of stuff to use as a filter, and most f it dissolved after time.

One cheap alternative is to get those Plastic "rough" big maze sponges, used to clean a pan, when it's real dirty and you have a nice black bottom in it... all the other stuff dissolves!
__________________
If it get's hot, it needs to be watercooled!
fhorst is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-23-2003, 06:53 AM   #12
Boli
Cooling Savant
 
Boli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Blackburn / Dundee
Posts: 451
Default

Would help if you elongate your tiube and have no "side opening" on the bottom - just use it as a long tube. Then flll 'er up make yourself a brew and come back.

Works for me .

~ Boli
__________________
1800+ @ 2247 (214x10.5) - STABLE, 512MB PC3700 TwinX Cosair RAM, NF7-S v2.0, GeForce3 Ti200
Parallel BIM, 120.1 Thermochill, Eheim 1048, Maze 3, Maze4 GPU, "Z" chipset, 1/2" tubing, PC-70: 5x120mm & 9x80mm fans.
Internet Server & second machine (folding 24/7): 512MB DDR RAM, XP2000+
Boli is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-24-2003, 06:15 AM   #13
V12|V12
Cooling Savant
 
V12|V12's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Ohio-State! <--Money Hussle! SUCKS
Posts: 292
Default

Okay Waaaait... forgive my smuggness, but HOW IN THE WORLD does this post get 5 stars?! What an insult...

Anyhow, I POSTED a topic with tons of reponses and ideas about air trap/resevoir design etc... a long while ago, Look it up and you might find some interesting ideas and theories which might help you in the future.... Good luck

5 stars? Haha come on...
__________________
XP 1600+ AGOIA-Y (GreenLabel, UNLOCKED!@/ NF7-S 2.0/ PC 2700 DDR
10.5*172FSB(1806/ 1991 high), Vcore 1.792...@84.95Watts
--86' Chevette Heater Core
--1/2" Vinyl tubes
--Via1300-Stealth Mod(QUIET!)
---Home made copper-tube block
---PVC small internal res
V12|V12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(C) 2005 ProCooling.com
If we in some way offend you, insult you or your people, screw your mom, beat up your dad, or poop on your porch... we're sorry... we were probably really drunk...
Oh and dont steal our content bitches! Don't give us a reason to pee in your open car window this summer...