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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 07-18-2004, 03:27 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee116
All I hear is a bunch of "blah blah blah" so don't even bother to try and talk to me.
Weren't we talking about kids and childishness earlier?

I remember saying things like that to my parents when I was 13...

As we mature and grow as adults, we develop more of an openmindedness and understanding for many things, and to the credit of those who lack it now, they may yet learn it as time passes.
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Unread 07-18-2004, 03:30 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMOG
Weren't we talking about kids and childishness earlier?

I remember saying things like that to my parents when I was 13...

As we mature and grow as adults, we develop more of an openmindedness and understanding for many things, and to the credit of those who lack it now, they may yet learn it as time passes.
You misunderstand. I heard all the same Bull Shit to many times. You want my real thoughts on his post? I will give it to you in a few minutes.
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Unread 07-18-2004, 03:32 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee116
You misunderstand. I heard all the same Bull Shit to many times. You want my real thoughts on his post? I will give it to you in a few minutes.
**dons his flame retardant undies in anticipation**
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Unread 07-18-2004, 03:35 PM   #79
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That is okay, I'd prefer this not to turn into a squabble and it seems like the only direction you wish to take it. I can infer enough from the way I have seen you conduct yourself thus far.

I think it is good to get some perspective though from the members here who care to share and criticize.
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Unread 07-18-2004, 03:36 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMOG
I commend you, as thats the way things ought to best be done if the enthusiast community is going to make any consdireable advancements in the short term. However, its just not the nature of people on the internet.

Everyone wants it easy, and they want it yesterday. It's the overwhelming nature of people on the internet.

I don't see it as though they are making the statement that they think their time is more important. I see it as a statement that they just don't yet care to get their hands dirty with things. They haven't yet fully departed from the outlook of the average computer user - they just want something to work, they don't care to understand it completely, they just want it to do what they want.
Of COURSE it is!
They are unwilling to research themselves - they want the answers given to them - the answers are readily available, but it takes some reading and parsing of information, ie TIME.

Its the same selfishness in general population that leads to huge traffic problems because everyone decides "screw the other guy, my time is more important" and selfishly cuts intot he lane that they KNOW ends in half a mile, because by doing so they can get 4 car lengths ahead by forcing everyone who is behind them to wait while they cut back into the lane they were in.

**** em. (note, this pervasive attitude of selfishness has pretty much permeated society as a whole, and can be seen in almost every situation, imo.)
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Unread 07-18-2004, 03:38 PM   #81
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Guys please keep it civil or I will be forced to close this thread. I don't want to see this end up as some OCers forum moderators vs. Procooling pissing match. Headaches I dont need right now.

Remember JayDee the ocers forum community coddles those unwilling to search and read so that we don't have to. Think of it like that and it's not such a bad place
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Unread 07-18-2004, 03:39 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeeDj
Jaydee I still feel in my heart that you could do so much more if you dropped the superiority complex and maybe remember what it was like back when you were asking for advice on mills, or finding out the differences between two dissimilar metals and their corrosion properties. You want to know the great things about newbs Jaydee ? We've all been there, you weren't born knowing everything there was to know about flow dynamics or metal characteristics, you learned it. What's so wrong with asking you to impart some of that knowledge with those around you who would like to soak it up but get met with "Stop being a newb" or "Read the stickies". Either you want to help people learn more and become bigger contributors or you just want to sit back and watch the downfall of it all.
BS.
All newbs are not created equal.
All newbs do not waste others time in order to save their own. If you arent willing to spend some time reading up on stuff, why should another person be willing to spend time giving you what is freely available for you to find, if you bothered to look?
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Unread 07-18-2004, 03:40 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pHaestus
Ok guys I am going to go on and close this thread before it ends up as some OCers forum moderators vs. Procooling pissing match. Headaches I dont need right now.
Naw pHaetus I saw a chance to clear up some misconceptions that we don't care about our forums. I am sorry that Jaydee isn't willing to discuss this with me in an adult fashion

J
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Unread 07-18-2004, 03:42 PM   #84
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Is not "**** em" an overwhelmingly selfish, NTM pessimistic/defeatist, battle cry also? We all have our own perspectives though, and from what you said I can definetly understand how you take yours. Ultimately, trying to wrap the mindset of all the users who come here and post crap into one neat little package that explains everything is likely founded in folly.

I'm gonna go have a smoke, quick posting is a fine recipe for disaster, and this thread would do better I hope with a few less people posting and a few more people stopping to think.
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Unread 07-18-2004, 03:49 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMOG
Is not "**** em" an overwhelmingly selfish, NTM pessimistic/defeatist, battle cry also? We all have our own perspectives though, and from what you said I can definetly understand how you take yours. Ultimately, trying to wrap the mindset of all the users who come here and post crap into one neat little package that explains everything is likely founded in folly.

I'm gonna go have a smoke, quick posting is a fine recipe for disaster, and this thread would do better I hope with a few less people posting and a few more people stopping to think.
Selfish?
No, not really. It is selfish of THEM to think that I, or anyone else, "owes them" any extra time, merely because they think they are worth it.
If you can't see the difference, then perhaps that is your problem...
I don't think its selfish to tell someone "Your time is NOT worth more than mine" - which is what "**** em" is saying - "**** em" if they want me (or some other "expert") to spend extra time on them just because they are too lazy.

The mere fact that you do not see this boggles my mind, and explains (imo) why you think the way you do.
you seem to think that the time is "owed" to these newbs who are lazy - and i ask you, then, "WHY?" Because that is the only way "**** em" could be considered selfish. Did you even read and understand what i wrote, or did you focus in on my last statement, take it out of context, and attempt to imply a meaning that never existed to it? Because the latter appears to be the truth, or you'd have understood that the "em" is those who think thier time is worth more than someone else's, and that saying "**** em" is more saying "they are wrong".

I suggest you follow your own advice from your last line next time, because the mere idea of having to post what i just did boggles my mind and makes me want to cry.
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Unread 07-18-2004, 03:54 PM   #86
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I wonder if Audiman has any idea of the chaos created because of his watercooling setup. hehe
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:06 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeeDj
Man I love you Jaydee, as many will know, your version of "setting someone straight" usually borderlines on fanaticism and outright flaming. As you very well know we don't tolerate that behaviour at OCForums, we are not there for sandbox temper tantrum fits, If a senior was indeed giving false information such as stating there are no corrosion issues with AL and Brass then yes, the record needed to be set straight, but as people seem to have lost all sense of patience when dealing with newcomers most of those who try to set it straight shouldn't post to begin with because most of their posts end up being nothing short of flame baiting. Now Jaydee I know you have a head on your shoulders, I know you've done some great work for the WC'ing community but that doesn't mean you need to approach every situation with out and out attitude. What point do you think gets across to someone truly trying to learn ? I don't have to answer that question because you know the answer as well as I do.
I don't reply to people that are truly trying to learn as they don't need help. When someone from your forum with over 2,000 posts and has been a member for more than 2 years replies to a newb with such ignorance your "make everyone happy" theory is clearly not working. You need to start jumping in these peoples shit to make them understand why they are hurting more than they are helping instead of kissing their ass. In the example I gave it was my first post under that screen name and I was quickly bombarded with a bunch of "regulars" questioning me on WTF I was doing questioning a senior member. What was rather humorous was the original poster to the thread was also a newb and interjected with evidence he himself dug up to prove ME right. Quiet embarrassing is was for this senior member and his supporters. My post was edited and then I got a nice PM from YOU telling me I was to be banned if I spoke up again. You sir can kiss my ass. Instead i will just not bother and let you deal with the shit pile.
Quote:
I am not a moderator to be loved, I am a moderator to help a community and to keep it growing. In this time of stagnant computer industries where nothing truly innovative is coming out, it's hard to keep interest in the same old same old. When was the last hot innovation in Extreme cooling? Months ago, maybe even longer, it's been a long time since anyone has truly done anything 'new' and 'exciting'. One would've though that X86-64 would've sparked a lot of interest and learning to be had, but it hasn't really, to me that's the real shame. Now lets' look at another thing:
And if your theory was working we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Quote:
So you are saying right there that our mods are clueless ?
Once again we are having this discussion are we not?
Quote:
Jaydee I still feel in my heart that you could do so much more if you dropped the superiority complex
You seem to think I want to do more? Wrong. I do to much as it is.
Quote:
and maybe remember what it was like back when you were asking for advice on mills, or finding out the differences between two dissimilar metals and their corrosion properties.
Damn right I remember and so does BillA and pH as they were the one's to hand me my ass in what you call a flame and I call constructive criticism. They set me strait and I couldn't appreciate it more. EDIT: As for mills, guess what? I learned all by my damn self!!! Self tought buddy.
Quote:
You want to know the great things about newbs Jaydee ? We've all been there, you weren't born knowing everything there was to know about flow dynamics or metal characteristics, you learned it. What's so wrong with asking you to impart some of that knowledge with those around you who would like to soak it up but get met with "Stop being a newb" or "Read the stickies". Either you want to help people learn more and become bigger contributors or you just want to sit back and watch the downfall of it all.
People that "want to learn" do so. They don't ask for the answers. Ever wonder why people get mad because the get told to search or read the stickies? Because they don't want to learn, they want to know. The easier you make it for them they less they really "know". If I was treated like you guys treat newbs I would still be a useless SOB with no real knowledge of anything spreading the wrong "answers".
Quote:
Overclocking and Watercooling are communities, we give back for the knowledge that we earn because if we don't all we are is thiefs and a thief is no better than being the newb that you criticize. I for one am working to affect a positive change at OCForums, if you don't want to be around for it so be it, I cannot force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. But the next time you want to ridicule me, think about the job it is that I actually do for the community, they are my concern, not the sandbox I'm better than you and I'm king of the hill mentalities.

It's about community, plain and simple

J
WTF? Overclocking and Watercooling are not communities. They are hobbies. Let me get this strait. If I design a water block and gain knowledge doing it I am a theif because I don't share it? What the hell kind of community is that?

Look bud, when you were in school someone handing you the answers to all the tests was called what? That's right, cheating. The people that cheated on those tests never knew anything about what the subject was about or they would have not needed to cheat in the first place.

Sharing cheats is exactly what your suggesting is the right way to do things. Telling people the answer to a question and all they will know is the answer, they will not know the basis of what that answer represents. The basis is the real knowledge not the answer to the question.

Making someone read the book (stickies, searching, ect) and "knowing" the answer is much more productive than telling someone the answer. Without making them read the book they will continue to plague you with more questions from the other chapters in the book because they never read the book. Make them read the book before you give them the answer and maybe you will not have to give them the answer and can concentrate on writing new books.

Sorry IMOG, if I grew up I would have no reason to get on these forums in the first place.

And as Speedy said, if the computer industry is not putting out anything new to make up more bull shit about then maybe it is time to clear up some of the previous bull shit being you now have time to....

Last edited by jaydee116; 07-18-2004 at 04:27 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:07 PM   #88
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He probably doesn't infinity, haha.

@althorian: Note that my last line in my last post was not directed at you my friend, it was a general observation as to the direction in which this thread was progressing as some in participation here are becoming aggravated. When I said I understand your perspective, I was not saying that I think anything negative about it, just that it was not the stance that I choose to take also.

Aw, I think I now see where our true difference in perspectives lie. I don't participate because I think I owe anyone anything... I don't believe it is a prerequisite to owe someone in order to offer them something. Note that I'm not disagreeing with you, I just hold a different outlook. I recognize that I don't owe them anything, and their motivation for asking doesn't concern me... Engaging in the discussion with people, no matter where it begins, can often later develop into something productive and all sides can find something to gain from it.

I'll admit that I'm also somewhat of a philosophy buff, so maybe I err to the side of being too openminded. Could be a character flaw of mine.

@pH: If you end up closing this pH, I don't blame you at all, but I think this thread has offered something of value to those who have participated and I'm glad you left it live as long as you have.
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:13 PM   #89
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damn guys. Most of this needs to be taken out of public consumption and brought to PMs.


Frankly, I don't care how they moderate their forums. If I don't like it, I don't go play there. Simple enough.


And my 2 cents on Jaydee's blahblah comment - its exactly what I was thinking when I got past the first 5 lines of that post - any why I skipped reading the rest. Heard it all before and he's said it all before. Jaydee might get a little rough on the edges but his points are valid (most of the time) and he's fun to read over a few beers.
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:15 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMOG

@pH: If you end up closing this pH, I don't blame you at all, but I think this thread has offered something of value to those who have participated and I'm glad you left it live as long as you have.
My mind is now boggling on why this thread would be closed? :shrug:
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:17 PM   #91
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Last 2 cents.

It would be nice to have better n00b guides, something indexed and easily searchable. For most people, its not only a new field of experience, its also a new set of terminology.

Yeah, there are a few good stickies here and there, but most are technical enough that they require a faq for the uninitiated.

Just a dream.... water cooling help for the masses.

Gotta go back and finish up on the garage (rebuilding the walls.)
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:19 PM   #92
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This would be why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pHaestus
Guys please keep it civil or I will be forced to close this thread.
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:23 PM   #93
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pHaestus, please close this thread... I beg you! Nothing good will come from it anymore.
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:24 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMOG
This would be why.
Ah, I missed that and jumped to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pHaestus

Remember JayDee the ocers forum community coddles those unwilling to search and read so that we don't have to. Think of it like that and it's not such a bad place
Selective reading again.
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:25 PM   #95
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Tits okay. Like pH said, we coddle those unwilling to read.
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:28 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMOG
Tits okay. Like pH said, we coddle those unwilling to read.
Well done!
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:29 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeloadingbum
I agree but you also need to find a way to keep the more experienced people stimulated or there won't be anybody to help the noobs except other noobs. A restricted section might help solve this problem. You could also require that members must help a given number of noobs to maintain posting access to the restricted section (some kind of point system perhaps)
It was not restricted but there was such at OC.
My only thread starter at OC , posing a question.
It seems to have been absorbed
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:29 PM   #98
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Jaydee I want to apologize for any PM I may have sent you telling you shape up your act or you would be banned. Keep in mind that would've been a three day 'cool' off ban. We as mods look at flames, the manner in which you posted is probably what found me on it. As many can attest to I am probably the most impartial moderator you will ever come across but my tolerance for flaming and general treating others like <insert verbage here> behaviour is very low, as you can see I have been a part of OC since early 2000 and a staff member not long thereafter. I've been through the ups and downs the droughts the abundance of times, it will always be there. We will continue to grow the site and the forums and still be one of the most definative references to overclocking in the world. The manner in which help newcomers by labelling them as 'lazy' and don't know how to search doesn't help, perhaps if they were shown as was suggested above, how to google or how to forum search it would help clear up alot of the BS that happens. How many times in my life do you think I have answered how do you do the pencil trick ? I can't even begin to count, do you think I ever posted do a search instead of helping them ? I may have referenced how to search AFTER I helped them to the best of my ability.

I have always respected procooling and Joe as well for what he has given in terms of extreme to this community. I am sorry if my posting comes across as trying to do anything more but clear up conceptions about the staff of Overclockers, that includes senior members as well because they are considered staff. I am always striving for ways to improve and to make things better, I apologize if my viewpoints and opinions offend anyone.

J
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:30 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pHaestus
1) I asked Joe to turn off post count again (he has to find it in the vbb3 options but no problem)...
You must edit the postbit_legacy template, find:

$vbphrase[posts]: $post[posts]


and delete it, post count gone.
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Unread 07-18-2004, 04:44 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeeDj
Jaydee I want to apologize for any PM I may have sent you telling you shape up your act or you would be banned. Keep in mind that would've been a three day 'cool' off ban. We as mods look at flames, the manner in which you posted is probably what found me on it. As many can attest to I am probably the most impartial moderator you will ever come across but my tolerance for flaming and general treating others like <insert verbage here> behaviour is very low, as you can see I have been a part of OC since early 2000 and a staff member not long thereafter. I've been through the ups and downs the droughts the abundance of times, it will always be there. We will continue to grow the site and the forums and still be one of the most definative references to overclocking in the world. The manner in which help newcomers by labelling them as 'lazy' and don't know how to search doesn't help, perhaps if they were shown as was suggested above, how to google or how to forum search it would help clear up alot of the BS that happens. How many times in my life do you think I have answered how do you do the pencil trick ? I can't even begin to count, do you think I ever posted do a search instead of helping them ? I may have referenced how to search AFTER I helped them to the best of my ability.

I have always respected procooling and Joe as well for what he has given in terms of extreme to this community. I am sorry if my posting comes across as trying to do anything more but clear up conceptions about the staff of Overclockers, that includes senior members as well because they are considered staff. I am always striving for ways to improve and to make things better, I apologize if my viewpoints and opinions offend anyone.

J
You run your forum anyway you want man. Quantity over quality is not my idea of a place I want to be. The city has quantity's of people and now guess what is happening? Many of the people that are tired of the trend are flocking to the hills and quiet suburbs to get out of the mess. ProCooling is my suburb for now until it reaches city quantity and the mess that comes with it. I will be happy to have the "asshole on the hill" tagged to my name. It gives me some peace to do what I do best for the WC scene. Make better DIY blocks... My agenda is not hits or revenue, maybe that is why my opinions seem odd to some webmasters....
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