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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 11-29-2004, 02:52 PM   #151
BillA
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the plastic pump housing capability, nothing to do with the pump itself
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Unread 11-29-2004, 04:35 PM   #152
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I've found Cathar's post Here to be very informative - although I'm not 100% up to speed on the math.

I eyeballed this pumps performance curve, used Cathar's math, and came up with the following:

~4.7lpm flow rate, 0.174 C/W at the block, 0.0435 C/W at the radiator. As for heat added to the water, I pulled 5W right out of my ass and crunched the numbers:

17.4C rise from the CPU, 105*0.0435 = ~4.6C rise from the pump, to give a total of 22.0C delta between the CPU die and ambient.

This would mean that this pump is at best slightly better than a Eheim 1250 in this situation (giving 0.1-0.2C for a pulling-out-of-ass factor).

Anyone want to have a more accurate crack at it?
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Unread 11-29-2004, 05:32 PM   #153
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sure the numbers are fun, any correlation with real-world data ?
i.e. is this useful ?

I know that you think you know, but has it been verified ?
- pressure and temps across a system in operation
other than the theoretical in Dave's article, I have not seen such data
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Unread 11-29-2004, 05:40 PM   #154
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Quote:
sure the numbers are fun, any correlation with real-world data ?
Am considering playing with numbers for the Swiftech kits -
may I ask what length of pipe is used on the bench when establishing the system C/W's ?
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Unread 11-29-2004, 06:02 PM   #155
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2 meters of 1/2" ID tubing, like it says in Cathar's original post that I linked to.
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Unread 11-29-2004, 06:03 PM   #156
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hose lengths not strictly limited, a 'tight' system might have 4' - an external rad to 6' or so

I am presently trying to setup to monitor a complete system but I lack some addl instruments - and data lines
- workin' on it
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Unread 11-30-2004, 05:28 AM   #157
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found 1


looking into geting 1 just dont like the whole 3/8's thing
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Unread 11-30-2004, 05:49 AM   #158
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Quote:
dont like the whole 3/8's thing
why? 3/8 or 1/2 not gonna make any difference with this pump
and another
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Unread 11-30-2004, 06:42 AM   #159
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just got a 1/2 system made but maybe i can use it regardless (thows reduser thingys)

tnx 4 cheeper link
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Unread 12-01-2004, 08:18 AM   #160
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In the Swiftech MCP350 web page, the picture of the DDC is the version 1, but the performance graph is of the DDC version 2, right?
So, is Swiftech selling the version 1 with a "wrong" graph, or the other way around, a correct graph with a "wrong" picture?
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Unread 12-01-2004, 09:12 AM   #161
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there is no V2 in fact, and swiftech have the graph for what you name V1 (less than 6 lpm so less than 360 l/h)
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Unread 12-01-2004, 09:35 AM   #162
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But these two graphs aren't the same:



Are we talking C-Systems dynasty here?
Who can we trust?

Edit: The MTBF value of 50.000/h still stands if you operate this pump at 13,2v?
Anyone?

Last edited by Jag; 12-01-2004 at 09:54 AM.
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Unread 12-01-2004, 09:57 AM   #163
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1 lpm = 60 lph
6 lpm = 360 lph

I read same results on both, units are different but results are equals.

Maybe the different max flow rates are the cause of your mistake ? the second curve seems to be more "compact", but max flow rate is 480 lph and it is only 400 on first graph.
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Unread 12-01-2004, 09:58 AM   #164
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not your ability to read, or reason - that much is clear
Excel rounds 0.5 to 1, as in the vertical axis of the small graph

you are a fool Jag, try again

version 1, version 2 - where is thes crap coming from ?
Europe ?
there is only one version of the DDC sold in the US (only the case and or wiring may vary, pumps all the same)
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Unread 12-01-2004, 10:01 AM   #165
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The "version 2" comes from the *.pdf that Laing released with a new pump casing.
In case yo don't know it's here: http://www.laing.de/10Produkte/40Pum...DC/00index.htm

Don't call a fool without any proof.

Here's the revised performance graph that Laing released:

So??

Last edited by Jag; 12-01-2004 at 10:12 AM.
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Unread 12-01-2004, 10:04 AM   #166
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BillA, Rosco put on cooling-masters a link where ou can find a PQ curves from Laing with a ma flow rate of 570 lph instead of the 350 lph you and Rosco measured.

His body is also different (fixations) so we believed there is a new version of the pump. In fact the old PQ curve is extrapoled over 270 lph, and new PQ curve is a full measured results from Laing.

Rosco is waiting for some answer because you and him have same results and it correspond to the old PQ curve

EDIT : the link http://www.laing.de/10Produkte/40Pum.../GleichDDC.pdf
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Unread 12-01-2004, 10:11 AM   #167
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my data is from Laing, let us hope that the same info is being given to all
I would not presume to use my test data to describe the Laing pumps, these people are quite competent to characterize pumps

I would add that this technical data is formally transmitted from Laing to Swiftech
but I will confirm the DDC PQ curve - will post any results

Rosco (Roscal no ?) should be able to confirm this kind of stuff too ??

Edit
looked at the link and now I am quite as confused as all of you
the pump shown is what Swiftech is shipping
I have never seen that curve before
WTF ?

EDIT
yes Jag, pointing out the difference is valid
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Unread 12-01-2004, 10:16 AM   #168
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This "revision" has been out for days now on the Laing web site.
Strange how it appears to be new info for some.
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Unread 12-01-2004, 10:17 AM   #169
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you are not the center of the universe ?
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Unread 12-01-2004, 10:18 AM   #170
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No Bill, if I were, i would call fool to a lot of people...
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Unread 12-01-2004, 10:21 AM   #171
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post #162 is your foolish badge
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Unread 12-01-2004, 10:25 AM   #172
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No, I inserted the wrong graph, then when I noticed and was going to correct it, the posts started to come and i decided to maintain it, and inserted the correct graph on the following post.
O.K?
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Unread 12-01-2004, 10:34 AM   #173
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better to have cleaned it up
the comparison to C-Systems is your bias, showing up on a recurring basis

"Who can we trust?"
get stuffed
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Unread 12-01-2004, 10:41 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unregistered
the comparison to C-Systems is your bias, showing up on a recurring basis
??
Care to demonstrate that?
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Unread 12-01-2004, 11:51 AM   #175
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ok, the European brochure is wrong - all disclaim knowledge of how this happened (to me)
the brochure will be changed

there is NO version 2

still no clue as to who can be trusted ?
get stuffed
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