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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 10-21-2002, 08:42 PM   #101
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A bulletproof shroud, no doubt! 8 mm steel...

Keep at it, you'll find a better way
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Unread 10-22-2002, 01:46 AM   #102
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I think Bruno meant 0.8mm galvanized steel. There is no way he could cut 8.0mm (1/3 inch thick) steel with tin snips (metal cutting scissors).
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Unread 10-25-2002, 01:01 PM   #103
Bruno Facca
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Again, sorry for taking so much to update you. These last few weeks have been hell, I can't even sleep 8 hours as I'm used to. I burned the 2nd PSU this month (isn't that great?), this time the 450W power supply couldn't handle my PC so it overloaded and fried.

Here are the new specs for the water cooled test rig:

Athlon XP 1700+ AGOIA stable @ 1850MHz (2V, 12.5x, 148FSB)
Heat dissipation: 111W at 100%, 98W at 88%
Soyo Dragon Plus (Vmod)
256MB cheap DDR
Prolink Geforce 4 MX440 w/ TV out
2x Samsung 40GB SV4002H in RAID 0
1x Quantum 20GB LCT20 for backup
LG DVD ROM 16x
Samsung CDR 8x4x32
Pinnacle Capture/TV card PV-BT878P+ Rev. 10
Alcatel external ADSL modem 256k/128k
Lucent V92 internal modem
Dual PSUs: 300W for the 3 HDs and 2 optical drives.
450W for the Mobo, CPU, RAM, GPU and PCI cards.


As for the pics, I would take them now but I have to be somewhere in about 20 minutes so I'll take them tonight in my spare time (I haven't used this word in a while) That is if no plane crashes in the roof of my house or the PC doesn't catch on fire for no reason (with the luck I'm having lately hehe...)

Finally the test rig is all ready, the water cooling system, including the all acrylic reservoir and a prototype of the radiator are all working very nicely. All that I still have to do is calibrate the 3 50k thermistors that will be used (interfaced to MBM5) to measure water, radiator intake and CPU temp, I could put a thermistor right below the core by using the very thin wire that came connected to the thermistor itself in the thermometers I got them from. I'll also do this tonight.

As for benchmarks I can't do them today, the reason is I'm running my PC underclocked and with only 2 HDs running because my 450W PSU didn't arrive yet so I only got a 300W, If I push this processor any further this PSU might die on me too (enough of that). It should arrive tomorrow (sat).

Last but not least, I have been working on the model of the 2nd batch of the block, it's almost ready, I'm also working on the model for the GPU block for the Geforce 3/4, that's why I bought the GF4, to test this new block that's coming in a few weeks.

I'll post back tonight.

@FuzzyFace, bigben2k: I guess I would need a couple of tons of force to cut a 8mm galvanized steel sheet with tin snips . It was a typo, it's 0.8mm as you said.

Thanks
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Unread 10-26-2002, 12:38 AM   #104
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Here are the pics, finally :





The radiator was painted by me using thermally conductive paint and as I said before, the shroud is made of 0.8mm galvanized steel, it was calculated so the fans stay 3cm away from the rad, I haven't really read any studies on that but I think that's a good distance.



In this last pic I tried to demonstrate how little the flow restriction is with this block, you can see the water hits the wall opposite to the inlet of the reservoir with some good pressure, the video shows that much better than a pic but I didn't think people would go to the trouble of downloading it so..

The reservoir (like this one) will be available with the 2nd batch of the block and I'm trying to work something out for the rads, as I can't be making these shrouds manually or it would take forever.

Please post any comments/questions you have

Thanks
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Unread 10-26-2002, 10:27 AM   #105
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Be nice to find some Allen~bolts to fix the tops on with, rounded top ones or drill an insert so they're flush with the surface...
I'd like to see the tops cut down a bit, have the holes come out in a curve by themselves...

_[O]___[O]_


Kinda thing but with some nice curves...~~

Laquer has to be put on VERY thinly, otherwise it'll run all over the place!, might help to keep the Copper warm before you spray it ...

Nice work though, keep it up!...
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Unread 10-28-2002, 08:17 PM   #106
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I'm working my ass off to get 15-20 blocks ready in a couple of weeks, I know it's not much but it's a start. I'm also talking to some people who may do part of thre finishing work (sanding) for me so I would be able to produce much more in a smaller ammount of time, because sanding is what takes most time. So far things are running smoothly.

I got a problem about measuring temperatures. The setup from benchtest.com I told you I made to measure the temps had too much fluctuation and I couldn't calibrate it because I couldn't think of any ways to provide 3 constant temps for calibrating the thermistors, one of them could be my reservoir once the temp is stabilized, I tried 0ºC as the low temp but the 50K thermistor went nuts, values fluctuating from top to bottom, also insulating the thermistors so they don't get wet (even using a finger from a silicone glove) will probably insulate some of the heat too so I had no success trying to calibrate it. I'm trying toi get my hands on a digidoc 5 but that damn thing is very expensive here. If you have any ideas to help me with this temp measurement stuff please post them or else I'll probably go crazy over this. I really want some accurate C/W numbers .

@MadDogMe: In the next batch, the one I plan on having by a couple of weeks there will be a place for the head of the screws, I already did one block like this and it looks much better. About the allen bolts, they're very unusual here in brazil so it would be hard to implement them.
That idea for the holes looks nice, *t's hard to do something like that but I'll see if I can do it.

Thanks
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Unread 10-30-2002, 11:56 AM   #107
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I can't afford to be taking this long to calibrate some simple temp sensors so I ordered a Digidoc 5, it will take 14 days to arrive, just in time to test the 2nd batch.

Changes/new features in the final version will be:

- Thinner top to reduce weight, actually 4.75mm (strong enough and a lot lighter than the 6mm actual tops)

- 3 hose fittings instead of 2, the water will enter right above the core and exit by the other 2 hose fittings at the ends of the channels. Than should increase performance by *a lot* because the flow will be a lot faster (hot water will exit quickly) and the cold water hitting strongly (low flow restriction=strong flow) above the core will "rip off" the heat way better than just passing on top of it.

- Allen bolts instead of common bolts for the top

- Hose fittings in natural brass color (shiny). Besides looking good, the paint in the hose fittings is peeling off a little after putting and removing hoses several times.

- No lacquer (did I ever spelled this right?) on top of the painting because according to some tests I made it doesn't protect much the painting and it gives that ugly shine so the painting will not shine (no specular reflections). What's the name for this kind of painting in english?

- Holes in the top so the screw heads stay at the same level as the top surface, this is very simple and improves the look by a lot.

I think the performance for the final version will be great, I'm very anxious to test it!

I hope you remember (see beginning of the thread if you don't) I said the $15 price is for the 50 units (wich will probably cover the people from the forums) because my profit is very small at this price. It will probably go up to $20 or $22 after that.

Thanks
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Unread 10-31-2002, 02:50 AM   #108
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Quote:
No lacquer (did I ever spelled this right?) on top of the painting because according to some tests I made it doesn't protect much the painting and it gives that ugly shine so the painting will not shine (no specular reflections). What's the name for this kind of painting in english?
Satin or Matt, the shiney one is Gloss...
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Unread 10-31-2002, 11:46 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bruno Facca
I hope you remember (see beginning of the thread if you don't) I said the $15 price is for the 50 units (wich will probably cover the people from the forums) because my profit is very small at this price. It will probably go up to $20 or $22 after that.
Go on Bruno!

I believe that all the work you’ve made for this block deserves more money. You could charge $30 or even more and it’s still going to be the cheapest block in the market. I don’t think you are going to loose customers with that kind of price.
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Unread 10-31-2002, 06:47 PM   #110
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First of all, disregard any additional spacing, my keyboard's space button is locking sometimes .

People seem to dislike the 2 outlets idea. It's not that complicated, all you would have to do is use a Y connection after the block, after that you would have a single hose as usual. I think this modification could improve the block's performance by a few degrees celsius, maybe even more. I tought of making some with 2 and some with 3 hoise fittings but I already have the AMD version and the P4 vesrion, each one has 1/2 and 3/8 variety so that would be too much variety for me. I guess you will have to vote .

Do you prefer:

1 inlet and 2 outlets with significantly improved performance (you would have to use a Y connector)

or

1 inlet and 1 outlet. More practical but inferior performance.

Or I can just wa it until I have some ready, make one of each, test, tell you the results and then you vote...

What you think?

@MadDogMe: Matt I think, thanks.

@nicozeg: At $22 my profit will be good, no need to be more expensive than that. Of course, if, with the new president, the dolar value starts to fall that would be a whole other story, but I think that's very unlikely because, I guess, the brazilian economy was never worst that it actually is.

Thanks
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Unread 10-31-2002, 08:20 PM   #111
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With your block design I think one entry (over the core) and two exits would give the best performance. Two exits into a ‘Y’ or a manifold would be easy to do.
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Unread 11-03-2002, 10:59 AM   #112
Bruno Facca
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There's something else I want your opinions about :
I tought about making the top in a more "live" color, like blue, a nice blue of course. What you think?
For the people who has cases of other colors, such as green or red, would a blue block be a problem because "it wouldn't match your case"?
This doesn't really matter for me but if I'm going to paint it anyway, I can use any color... Please give me some feedback on this.

Things are going smoothly in the production, I think I'll be able to have them ready in around 10 days.

@FuzzyFace: I believe so too. Once I get a couple of blocks ready I'll do some testing and post the results.

Thanks
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Unread 11-03-2002, 12:48 PM   #113
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Lexan/plexiglass as well maybe?, don't know how it'd look with gloop for a sealant though:shrug: ...
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Unread 11-03-2002, 03:54 PM   #114
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Bruno, I don't believe that there's any point in painting it any color, if you're not going to have a transparent version. The metalic look seems to be the most appropriate. Use a clear lacker on top of the metal.

As a marketing tip, black is often used to convey a high value. Since you're block isn't expensive, I'd go with white...
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Unread 11-03-2002, 05:49 PM   #115
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@MadDogMe: It would look nice but it would be too much work, also we don't have lexan here and plexiglass breaks too easily.

@bigben2k: I think it's nice to have some contrast, it also gives a more "industrial" look, when I see somethin that is all "raw" copper it looks like something homemade to me (unless it's all polished). Of course that's just my opinion but there's also another thing to be considered: It's faster to paint it than to give it a nice copper finnish.
And hey, just because it's cheap it doen't mean it can't look expensive

In case someone got the discussion in the half of it, we're only talking about the top here. The block will have the "brushed/shiny copper loook".

Thanks
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Unread 11-04-2002, 03:49 AM   #116
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I'd do a few different/basic colours and let people choose,but matt black is my favorite!, all my madmax~esk motorbikes/scooters when I was younger were matt black...
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Unread 11-04-2002, 11:10 AM   #117
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Here's an idea I had (which you can use!): etch some decorative patterns on the exterior copper, THEN cover it with a lacquer.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 06:39 PM   #118
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The production proccess is excellent so far, I spent some more money (that I actually couldn't) to have some new pins I designed done in stainless steel for the model, these pins should make a big difference in performance. I also ordered some better casting gear so tha casting proccess goes smoother. Disconsidering the hole in my bank account I'm pretty happy about the resuts so far.

Ican't provide more than one color (I wish I could) because, if I made tops of 2 different colors, that would double the variety, I would have like 8 kinds of tops to have in stock here and that would drive me crazy.

@MadDogMe: I like black too. I'm between blue, gray and black.

@bigben2k: That would probably look very nice but it would take too much time.

Thanks
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Unread 11-05-2002, 04:35 AM   #119
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If it's got to be one colour, and if clear laquer is out because of cleaning solder, ect, then Black it is! ...
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Unread 11-06-2002, 07:20 PM   #120
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BRUNo............How much are you planning to sell em' for?
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Unread 11-06-2002, 09:34 PM   #121
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I haven't updated you for a while because my RAID got corrupted badly so I'm working on fixing it and saving my important files , also I've been working (on the block) for like 14 hours a day.

I got some good news and some bad news, good news first:

A new and improved model was made (acrylic and stainless steel this time), those little "rounded cones" got twice taller and a little thinner to exchange heat and turbulate water better, there were changes to the wall "knobs" too.

The block's top will be painted with epoxy paint, electrostatic painting (or something like that). This kind of painting is *much* stronger than regular painting, you'll never get a scratch on it, it also looks very "professional".

I'll be able to produce much more blocks in a lower ammount of time (like 50/60 a week) because I got some people (pros) to do some of the finishing and the painting for me.

A very nice and secure clip made of steel (probably stainless) and aluminium (this combination is to get something that is very strong and light at the same time) is coming for both socket A (AMD) and socket 478 (P4), in the AMD version it will use all the 3 socket lugs on each side. It won't allow the block to spin or slide, it will also be the same color as the top. This is great news for those who don't like the 4 hole mounting method.

Now to the bad news: I don't think I can make it in 8 days, maybe some 15/16 days I'm really sorry about this, I know some people who wanted the block probably gave up already.. The thing is, the quality of the product is a priority, that's why I'm sacrificing some more time. Again I'm sorry.

@LiquidRules: USD$15 for the 50 first units, after that I'm not sure, but I guess something like $22.

@MadDogMe: Oh man, the votings are like 50% black, 50% blue, that's tough, and well, I like both colors

Thanks for all the feedback so far, you have been *very* helpful.
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Unread 11-06-2002, 09:45 PM   #122
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If you're going to go with blue, why not make it Brazil blue?

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Unread 11-06-2002, 09:58 PM   #123
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sounds great... nice flag
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Unread 11-12-2002, 01:50 PM   #124
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I haven't updated you in a while because one of the hard drives in my RAID got full of bad blocks, I lost a lot of important data and I had to get a new HD, I had no working PC in the last few days. I replaced the 2 40GB samsung 5400RPM for a single 80GB maxtor 7200RPM. Everything is fine now.

I'm working hard to get those blocks on the web site for sale ASAP. If everything goes as planned they will perform and look much better than the beta version.

Now I'm mainly working on the stainless steel clips for AMD and P4, they will be made of colored stainless steel, it looks a bit like anodized aluminium (as in the color is not paint it is really "in the metal", in fact it looks much better because it's polished so it's shiny.. I personally don't care much about these details but there is (or is it there are?) a lot of people who do...

I will keep you posted.

@bigben: This is not exactly the blue you see in the "official" brazilian flag, it's a bit darker. Brazil blue sounds like a good idea

Thanks
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Unread 11-14-2002, 09:14 PM   #125
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Hey Bruno, how's it going with the blocks? I haven't been online in a while and was just looking for an update on when and how much the final product is going to be? Oh yeah and can I still get my special request for a naked (paintless) block? Thanks Good luck

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