Two pumps config - serial or paralell? - Page 7

Puzzdre · 11-12-2002, 04:07 PM

Well, all g.l.amour said about making the blocks for the money, same here. I'm very glad you (#Rotor) helped us, I give it very much appreciation. This was, is and will be done for fun and improved cooling, and in my case, for gift to some people (two of them actually). Thanks a lot, again.

g.l.: hehe, I just did the vacuum cleaning today, and did it good to pick all the copper flakes from my carpet (brought them from the balcony on my slippers)

. Now is time to clean up the balcony, just after I take some pic's (regular, not digicam) for showing other people how good my wife is, and what she can stand in her apartment

.

Now, I got some more questions for ya!
How the hell did you manage to spend only 1/5 of the disc for whole half of the block?!?!?!?

I use Minicraft brand (only ones available here), and they don't last long. I cutted also with approx. half the max speed of dremel.
Also, what's the distance between the holes in block (rim to rim of hole)? I managed to drill with 4 mm bit with 0.5 mm distance between the rims of the holes.

I certainly have more of them, but just now, I cannot remember any.

Keep it fun!!!

g.l.amour · 11-12-2002, 04:29 PM

from the dremel site i use cutoff wheel 426. they are not as good for real hard stuff (like steel sidepanels). but i just found out that they don't wear down from copper.

what they always told me in school, the softer the material, the slower the rpm (so that the surfaces don't heat up as much, less friction) look at it like cutting plexi with dremel at 30.000rpm. the plexi just melts instead of being cut. so try putting your dremel at half speed, that will work wonders. same goes for the drills, did all the holes at 1800, and u can move in on the hole like if it were butter. real fast, and in 1 pass.

if u already did everything at slow rpm, then i just guess its the dremel wheels that are holding you back.

distance from rim to rim is 1mm, didn't think i would be able to get em closer because of fault tolerance. now i c that it was possible to have them at 0.5 no problem. next time i think i will use 4mm drill instead of 3.5, because at 3.5 i don't have the concave sides of the squares, they are almost all perfectly square. so the beloved turbulance effect rotor always speaks about will occur less with the 3.5 mm holes (dremel is 1mm thick, so 3.5 - 1 = 2.5 => 2.5/2 gives u only 1.25 of possible concave side. if u were to use 4mm : 4 - 1 = 3 /2 is 1.5 of concave area.

dunno if it is alot of difference, but worth a try

Puzzdre · 11-12-2002, 04:39 PM

Yup, that would be it, cutting discs are different. These I used are 0.5 mm thick, cut nice but don't last long. Oh, and fragile too...

Are you gonna try to make "the Brain" block pattern next?

g.l.amour · 11-13-2002, 02:18 AM

ahh, the 0.5s are good for precision cuts in steel sidepanels and the like. but indeed very brittle, usually if i have 2, i always brake 1 in my hand, just touching it seems enough to brake it.

g.l.amour · 11-13-2002, 09:45 AM

damn, i couldn't have imagined it would have been so hard to find those damn allen bolts. i found one place that has em, if i buy over 1000 bolts. whats the matter with these wussy worthless DIY stores in belgium. everything someone in the US finds within minutes, u have to call 20 places for here. its getting real tiring, every problem you solve has the next one waiting eagerly for you to spend 2 days of energy in.

Puzzdre · 11-13-2002, 01:27 PM

You too huh?

I'm still chasing the barbs. There is a *slight* possibility of finding them in ONE shop, somewhere on the outer rims of the city (I found it actually), but they were closed today afternoon. And there are no working hours indicated on the door or elsewhere, so I'll prolly try tomorrow morning, just have to borrow the car to get there (She uses our AX to travel to work

). No luck with the Allen bolts either. Dunno what's better, to have to buy 1000 of them, or to not have them at all...maybe to buy all 1000 and use 4, put next 4 aside for another block, and use the others to make the walls more interesting...

Well, good luck to both of us outside of US...

g.l.amour · 11-13-2002, 02:45 PM

as always, he who seeks will find. can sometimes be a bit frustrating. but we will get there. incredible though that the wrenches used to fasten allen bolts can be found everywhere. the bolts are harder to find than gold.

utabintarbo · 11-13-2002, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by g.l.amour
as always, he who seeks will find. can sometimes be a bit frustrating. but we will get there. incredible though that the wrenches used to fasten allen bolts can be found everywhere. the bolts are harder to find than gold.

I think the problem might be one of terminology: the wrenches are referred to as "Allen" wrenches, but I have only heard the corresponding bolts referred to as either "hex-head" or more commonly "socket-head" screws. At least around here (Detroit), that is.

Bob

Puzzdre · 11-13-2002, 03:20 PM

People here usually misplace Allen bolt or screw for Torx. But they usually have none of them. Bwahahahahahaha....paradise on earth...

g.l.amour · 11-13-2002, 03:42 PM

well, ive learned to take what i need (picture from web or something) and show that to the shopowner. works miracles.

Puzzdre · 11-13-2002, 03:42 PM

g.l.amour, have you finished the other half of the block?

g.l.amour · 11-13-2002, 04:00 PM

nope, im gonna wait till i can tap the bolts holding both parts together. that way if i **** up, it won't be that big a loss

Puzzdre · 11-13-2002, 04:06 PM

I was thinking of tapping only the bottom half holes, and just drilling the right size holes in top half. I thought that way would be better for squeezing the halves together.

I might be wrong, but if I tap both halves, there's a possibility of having a little gap between the halves. This way the bolt would push up the bottom half to the upper. Dunno, maybe Sir #Rotor will chime on this...

Ofcourse, anybody else, thoughts, experiences, comments?

bigben2k · 11-13-2002, 04:39 PM

The obvious answer is: don't tap both parts. You will get a gap, regardless of the torque applied to the screw, unless you're able to perfectly continue the thread from one plane to the other (and that's not realistic).

It defeats the whole purpose of using a screw.

utabintarbo · 11-13-2002, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Puzzdre
I was thinking of tapping only the bottom half holes, and just drilling the right size holes in top half. I thought that way would be better for squeezing the halves together.

I might be wrong, but if I tap both halves, there's a possibility of having a little gap between the halves. This way the bolt would push up the bottom half to the upper. Dunno, maybe Sir #Rotor will chime on this...

Ofcourse, anybody else, thoughts, experiences, comments?

DO NOT tap both halves! You will end up with a gap.

Bob

BTW, darkness is not the fastest speed there is... office gossip moves faster!

Puzzdre · 11-13-2002, 04:43 PM

Thanx bb2k!

I'm glad that I was right (not tappered any holes though...

)

Thanx again!

Puzzdre · 11-13-2002, 04:47 PM

Thanx for swift (and bolded

) reply!

Quote:

Originally posted by utabintarbo

BTW, darkness is not the fastest speed there is... office gossip moves faster! [/b]

LOL

Yeah, but darkness is still faster than light...didn't think of office gossip...

Thx

#Rotor · 11-14-2002, 04:07 AM

another little "trick" , in order to insure the bolt holes line up perfectly, drill the plate that is to be tapped, first, with a bit that is a couple of sizes smaller than is required for the tap. Then, clamp the 2 plates onto one another, in the configuration that they would be assembled, making sure the sides are perfectly flush with another....... now use the same drill-bit, and "punch-drill" the second plate. remove the G-clamp\whatever and commence with drilling the right size for both plates, you will find the assembled result to fit like a charm....

g.l.amour · 11-14-2002, 04:15 AM

don't think i get that one completely.

why wouldn't it be possible to clamp both plates together. drill the right tap size from the start through both plates. tap in one. drill with slightly larger dia in the other one?

#Rotor · 11-14-2002, 04:25 AM

you sure can do that, but every time you go through the allready drilled hole, you are reaming it ever so slightly... by using a smaller bit, and the later just drill the holes out the the correct size, you avoid that reaming effect...

with small fine thread bolts, the persentage thread-loss as a resault of this, can be catastrophic...

as for drilling all the way through the 2 plates with a thin drill... I found it much easier to go half way, twice.

you know with copper being the bitch that it is and all.... not to mention that my little drill-press is seriously starting to show its age.

g.l.amour · 11-14-2002, 04:35 AM

now i get it. thx for already another great tip.

another Q for the experts. the supposed copper i bought (as u can see from the screenshot) is much more yellowy, goldish than what u guys (rotor and puzzdre) seem to have. asked someone at work and it would seem as i do'nt have the natural red copper. but already some sort of mixture. someone care to elaborate on the heat characteristics if u stray away from pure copper?

#Rotor · 11-14-2002, 05:16 AM

Sounds like you got yourself some Brass at worst, or maybe some yellow copper, which are alloys... either way, it's not as good as the pure thing... sadly.

I use C101 copper, and it has that really deep red color to it. to me it more beautiful than gold...

Puzzdre · 11-14-2002, 05:21 AM

Quote:

you know with copper being the bitch that it is and all....

seems that we (almost) all have to learn the hard way...I broke three 2 mm drill bits trying to make xyinn's kinda block...

As for the copper colour, dunno, all I know that mine was meant for electrical transformers bus, and considering the company which distributes the electricity here uses good stuff, I didn't give it much attention.

Lately, seems they use new thing, copper on the outside of the bar, and alu inside, but I couldn't get my hands on it yet, wanna see how it looks like/ performs...

g.l.amour · 11-14-2002, 06:07 AM

would there be some way of testing if this is brass or copper? i could show the plumber across my door , would they be able to spot the difference? anyone got body mass for copper and for brass, can't seem to find it in google.

Puzzdre · 11-14-2002, 06:24 AM

Dunno, maybe the safest way would be to call the guy you get it from and ask him...Or to take a piece to the nearest machine shop and ask them, they would/should most probably know?

11-12-2002, 04:07 PM	#151
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Well, all g.l.amour said about making the blocks for the money, same here. I'm very glad you (#Rotor) helped us, I give it very much appreciation. This was, is and will be done for fun and improved cooling, and in my case, for gift to some people (two of them actually). Thanks a lot, again. g.l.: hehe, I just did the vacuum cleaning today, and did it good to pick all the copper flakes from my carpet (brought them from the balcony on my slippers) . Now is time to clean up the balcony, just after I take some pic's (regular, not digicam) for showing other people how good my wife is, and what she can stand in her apartment . Now, I got some more questions for ya! How the hell did you manage to spend only 1/5 of the disc for whole half of the block?!?!?!? I use Minicraft brand (only ones available here), and they don't last long. I cutted also with approx. half the max speed of dremel. Also, what's the distance between the holes in block (rim to rim of hole)? I managed to drill with 4 mm bit with 0.5 mm distance between the rims of the holes. I certainly have more of them, but just now, I cannot remember any. Keep it fun!!! __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-12-2002, 04:39 PM	#153
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Yup, that would be it, cutting discs are different. These I used are 0.5 mm thick, cut nice but don't last long. Oh, and fragile too... Are you gonna try to make "the Brain" block pattern next? __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-13-2002, 01:27 PM	#156
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	You too huh? I'm still chasing the barbs. There is a slight possibility of finding them in ONE shop, somewhere on the outer rims of the city (I found it actually), but they were closed today afternoon. And there are no working hours indicated on the door or elsewhere, so I'll prolly try tomorrow morning, just have to borrow the car to get there (She uses our AX to travel to work ). No luck with the Allen bolts either. Dunno what's better, to have to buy 1000 of them, or to not have them at all...maybe to buy all 1000 and use 4, put next 4 aside for another block, and use the others to make the walls more interesting... Well, good luck to both of us outside of US... __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-13-2002, 03:20 PM	#159
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	People here usually misplace Allen bolt or screw for Torx. But they usually have none of them. Bwahahahahahaha....paradise on earth... __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-13-2002, 03:42 PM	#161
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	g.l.amour, have you finished the other half of the block? __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-12-2002, 04:29 PM	#152
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	from the dremel site i use cutoff wheel 426. they are not as good for real hard stuff (like steel sidepanels). but i just found out that they don't wear down from copper. what they always told me in school, the softer the material, the slower the rpm (so that the surfaces don't heat up as much, less friction) look at it like cutting plexi with dremel at 30.000rpm. the plexi just melts instead of being cut. so try putting your dremel at half speed, that will work wonders. same goes for the drills, did all the holes at 1800, and u can move in on the hole like if it were butter. real fast, and in 1 pass. if u already did everything at slow rpm, then i just guess its the dremel wheels that are holding you back. distance from rim to rim is 1mm, didn't think i would be able to get em closer because of fault tolerance. now i c that it was possible to have them at 0.5 no problem. next time i think i will use 4mm drill instead of 3.5, because at 3.5 i don't have the concave sides of the squares, they are almost all perfectly square. so the beloved turbulance effect rotor always speaks about will occur less with the 3.5 mm holes (dremel is 1mm thick, so 3.5 - 1 = 2.5 => 2.5/2 gives u only 1.25 of possible concave side. if u were to use 4mm : 4 - 1 = 3 /2 is 1.5 of concave area. dunno if it is alot of difference, but worth a try

11-13-2002, 02:18 AM	#154
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	ahh, the 0.5s are good for precision cuts in steel sidepanels and the like. but indeed very brittle, usually if i have 2, i always brake 1 in my hand, just touching it seems enough to brake it.

11-13-2002, 09:45 AM	#155
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	damn, i couldn't have imagined it would have been so hard to find those damn allen bolts. i found one place that has em, if i buy over 1000 bolts. whats the matter with these wussy worthless DIY stores in belgium. everything someone in the US finds within minutes, u have to call 20 places for here. its getting real tiring, every problem you solve has the next one waiting eagerly for you to spend 2 days of energy in.

11-13-2002, 02:45 PM	#157
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	as always, he who seeks will find. can sometimes be a bit frustrating. but we will get there. incredible though that the wrenches used to fasten allen bolts can be found everywhere. the bolts are harder to find than gold.

11-13-2002, 03:42 PM	#160
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	well, ive learned to take what i need (picture from web or something) and show that to the shopowner. works miracles.

11-13-2002, 04:00 PM	#162
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	nope, im gonna wait till i can tap the bolts holding both parts together. that way if i **** up, it won't be that big a loss

11-13-2002, 04:06 PM	#163
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	I was thinking of tapping only the bottom half holes, and just drilling the right size holes in top half. I thought that way would be better for squeezing the halves together. I might be wrong, but if I tap both halves, there's a possibility of having a little gap between the halves. This way the bolt would push up the bottom half to the upper. Dunno, maybe Sir #Rotor will chime on this... Ofcourse, anybody else, thoughts, experiences, comments? __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-13-2002, 04:39 PM	#164
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	The obvious answer is: don't tap both parts. You will get a gap, regardless of the torque applied to the screw, unless you're able to perfectly continue the thread from one plane to the other (and that's not realistic). It defeats the whole purpose of using a screw. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

11-13-2002, 04:43 PM	#166
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Thanx bb2k! I'm glad that I was right (not tappered any holes though... ) Thanx again! __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-14-2002, 04:07 AM	#168
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	another little "trick" , in order to insure the bolt holes line up perfectly, drill the plate that is to be tapped, first, with a bit that is a couple of sizes smaller than is required for the tap. Then, clamp the 2 plates onto one another, in the configuration that they would be assembled, making sure the sides are perfectly flush with another....... now use the same drill-bit, and "punch-drill" the second plate. remove the G-clamp\whatever and commence with drilling the right size for both plates, you will find the assembled result to fit like a charm.... __________________ There is no Spoon....

11-14-2002, 04:15 AM	#169
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	don't think i get that one completely. why wouldn't it be possible to clamp both plates together. drill the right tap size from the start through both plates. tap in one. drill with slightly larger dia in the other one?

11-14-2002, 04:25 AM	#170
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	you sure can do that, but every time you go through the allready drilled hole, you are reaming it ever so slightly... by using a smaller bit, and the later just drill the holes out the the correct size, you avoid that reaming effect... with small fine thread bolts, the persentage thread-loss as a resault of this, can be catastrophic... as for drilling all the way through the 2 plates with a thin drill... I found it much easier to go half way, twice. you know with copper being the bitch that it is and all.... not to mention that my little drill-press is seriously starting to show its age. __________________ There is no Spoon....

11-14-2002, 04:35 AM	#171
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	now i get it. thx for already another great tip. another Q for the experts. the supposed copper i bought (as u can see from the screenshot) is much more yellowy, goldish than what u guys (rotor and puzzdre) seem to have. asked someone at work and it would seem as i do'nt have the natural red copper. but already some sort of mixture. someone care to elaborate on the heat characteristics if u stray away from pure copper?

11-14-2002, 05:16 AM	#172
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	Sounds like you got yourself some Brass at worst, or maybe some yellow copper, which are alloys... either way, it's not as good as the pure thing... sadly. I use C101 copper, and it has that really deep red color to it. to me it more beautiful than gold... __________________ There is no Spoon....

11-14-2002, 06:07 AM	#174
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	would there be some way of testing if this is brass or copper? i could show the plumber across my door , would they be able to spot the difference? anyone got body mass for copper and for brass, can't seem to find it in google.

11-14-2002, 06:24 AM	#175
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Dunno, maybe the safest way would be to call the guy you get it from and ask him...Or to take a piece to the nearest machine shop and ask them, they would/should most probably know? __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

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