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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 11-27-2002, 12:57 PM   #1
pHaestus
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Default Common pump P-Q Curves (graph inside)

I was bored this am, and decided to search the web and dig up P-Q curves for the most common wcer pumps used/sold today. I got the curves from the following places:

Hydor L20 and L30: http://www.cooltechnica.com/images/H...30_PQ_Data.pdf
Eheim pumps: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/att...=&postid=44918
Sicce Idra: http://www.sicce.co.uk/Idragra.gif
Via Aqua 1300: http://www.wcaquatics.com/cgi-bin/it...aqua_pump.html

A note: The Via Aqua 1300 numbers as reported in their table do NOT result in a normal P-Q curve. I suspect that the max head of the the 1300 is much closer to 5 feet than to 6, and that the numbers are not exactly correct. I'used the P-Q curve provided on that page rather than the numbers in the table. It lists max flow of 400 GPH rather than the 370 reported by other vendors.

Another note: I just read representative points off the graphs and then used them to make a crude P-Q curve of my own. They obviously may be off by a few %.

Anyway, here goes:
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Unread 11-27-2002, 01:05 PM   #2
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An addendum:

Some of these pumps (Sicce, Via Aqua, Hydor) are typically used submerged but also will work inline. I do not know the exact conditions of the testing; I just reproduced the curves on a single graph.
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Unread 11-27-2002, 01:27 PM   #3
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another one for in the WC encyclopdedia
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Unread 11-27-2002, 01:54 PM   #4
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nice work, a definate asset. have you been able to find any P-Q curves of the Danner Mag drive pumps? (specifically model 7)? I only found some rough numbers, from which BigBen made a small graph in another thread somewhere.

I was just wondering if you happen to come across any, because I couldn't find that information anywhere else
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Unread 11-27-2002, 05:02 PM   #5
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Some great info pHaestus, thanks, but shouldn't it read:

flow (GPH) instead of flow(GPM)?

I don't know about anyone else, but my Ehiem 1048 will not produce 9600 GPH
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Unread 11-27-2002, 05:35 PM   #6
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yes it's true. Should read GPH not GPM. I set everything up in Excel so I could also do SI; then didn't pay enough attention to the units in graph. I don't think I can edit that graph as I added it as an attachment. I'll make a new graph and attach again shortly.

Still haven't found Danner numbers yet.
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Unread 11-27-2002, 06:07 PM   #7
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Default Two birds with one stone

Found Danner info here:

http://www.dannermfg.com/hamptonwate...its/pumps.html

And added the 250gph (Mag2) and 350GPH (Mag3) to list.

It's getting pretty busy now...
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Unread 11-27-2002, 06:16 PM   #8
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Awesome work. Had no idea the Danner's faired so well. Perhaps an intersecting wattage line as well.

Great work and thank you!
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Unread 11-27-2002, 06:24 PM   #9
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It's REALLY hard to know how much variability there might be between pumps. Plus mfgrs sometimes overstate performance (see C/Ws at www.thermaltake.com for more info).

I suspect the Danners pull more watts than the others I seem to recall my model 2 being around 25W.
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Unread 11-27-2002, 06:36 PM   #10
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Wait!!! you mean there is something mis stated or incorrect on the web?!?! NOOO! Someone needs to get on this, I am calling the FBI right now since obviously some hax0r has changed the numbers on them... cause no one would ever lie on a [W]ebsite.

hehehehe
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Unread 11-27-2002, 06:39 PM   #11
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Well there is just SO much potential variability. Someone told me that they had their heatsinks tested by several different labs, and that they came back with C/W from 0.2 to 0.6. And those were all professional testing labs.
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Unread 11-27-2002, 06:44 PM   #12
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My apologies if I hit a nerve.

I assumed all the pump manufacturers (and others) embellished approximately the same.
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Unread 11-27-2002, 06:48 PM   #13
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Well they may. It is a reasonably straightforward measurement I would think, and so perhaps the numbers are all right on.

But I think people are (reasonably) skittish about mfgr performance claims. Industrial pumps undoubtedly have standards for such, and I would expect the curves for the mfgrs who also make higher end pumps to be pretty reliable. Not so sure about the "hobby pump" makers though.
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Unread 11-27-2002, 07:57 PM   #14
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nice compendium pHaestus

some unquantified opinion based on bits and pieces:

from a European mfgr, pretty much on
from US mfgr for industrial (small pump) apps, pretty much on
from US mfgr for 'hobby' market, very variable (some correct, others smoke)
from Japan, spot on
from China, whatever they chose to say
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Unread 11-27-2002, 09:08 PM   #15
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Wow I didnt know accuracy knew country borders... I thought it was more a per company thing
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Unread 11-27-2002, 09:47 PM   #16
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no, its a fraud penalty thing

the EU will levy fines,
etc
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Unread 02-23-2003, 08:31 PM   #17
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I can't remember who or where other then in these forums but this graph was posted. He said he ran the water through 1/2" ID tube to come up with it. What if you guys did the same thing for each pump and started a database.
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Unread 02-24-2003, 12:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by psychofunk
I can't remember who or where other then in these forums but this graph was posted.
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...5&pagenumber=2
Reduced to a link.in edit.
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Unread 07-02-2003, 09:12 PM   #19
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I need to get a new pump as my old one is dieing(or at least making plenty of noise). The cheapest pump I've seen is a VIA AQUA for 18.49. But the stores min online purchase is 30$ so sshould I either get 2 VIA AQUA 1300's for 37$ or get a Danner Mag3 for 36$.


Also I know theroretically 2 pumps in series is double the pressure and 2 in parallel is double the flow. But in the REAL world more double the pressure actually means double the possible head so flow would actually increase. And for parallel doubleing the flow would actually create more resistance which would decrease flow. Not even taking into account that its not actually 1 + 1 = 2 but6 slightly less. The previsous period is confusing I know but so is the math behind it. Does anyone have any formulas or rules of thumb for calculating flow using multiple pumps? Thanks for any help.
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Unread 07-02-2003, 09:39 PM   #20
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You could simply spend $30 on the Johnson pump .

Otherwise, I believe you'll find about 85% of the total pressure that you expected.
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Unread 09-03-2003, 04:15 PM   #21
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Default update with new swiftech pump



Click for larger image.

I should note I am using 3.785L/gallon and 0.3048m/foot in all corrections (should you want the numbers for conversion).

Does anyone know how that sites like this: http://stats.zerothelement.com/cgi-b...led.pl?Id=4562
generate graphs on the fly from text data? It would be really sweet to be able to graph all of these P-Q curves on the fly rather than on this single graph that is getting pretty busy.
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Unread 09-03-2003, 07:38 PM   #22
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-

Last edited by Les; 09-03-2003 at 08:48 PM.
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Unread 09-03-2003, 09:17 PM   #23
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Les: It's from the mfgr specs and is as good as their word. Bill has some pretty good evidence that the Eheim P-Q curves are a bit optimistic. Of course he's also a mfgr now too and subject to the same suspicions right? I personally think the Via Aqua numbers are bogus for sure (as mentioned above).

But hey we have to start somewhere right? Of interest to me is the apparent dominance of a relatively inexpensive pump (Danner Mag3) and the high head performance of Swiftech's new entry.
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Unread 10-01-2003, 10:41 PM   #24
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hmm, no iwaki's or eheim 1060 ...

beggars can't be chosers I guess
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Unread 10-09-2003, 12:19 PM   #25
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Graph updated today to reflect newer P-Q curves for MCP600 from Bill.

I can't include many more pumps without ending up with a graph noone can read...
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