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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 08-18-2003, 11:48 AM   #101
CoolROD
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I like your res idea and I think I can picture what you have in mind...here is my humble opinion:

Consider leaving out the tee, using an elbow or other means to attach the pump to the bottom and letting the UV clarifier be your top or lid to the res. You would have to have a water inlet so you could use your tee at the top or just tap the tube for hose barb(s). You might want to attach your pump to the res with some short length of hose to limit resonance / vibration.

That way you could buy it (the UV5) later and not even have to drain your water to put it in.

I have also noted the comment about string algae. It may be that this stuff is immobile and never gets washed through the system to see the UV light. That is the shortcoming of this approach to keeping a clean system.

I don't think that we need "beneficial bacteria" in our systems b/c we don't have anything we want digested.
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Unread 08-18-2003, 03:23 PM   #102
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Quote:
CoolROD: Consider leaving out the tee, using an elbow or other means to attach the pump to the bottom and letting the UV clarifier be your top or lid to the res.
Good idea, I thought of doing that at first, decided it wouldn't work. The top of my res will stick through the case, so that I have a fill point that is easy to get to, and is highly resistant to spill damage (any spillage would be outside the case) The inlets to the res will be at least 3-4" below the fill point. If I put the clarifier in the top, it would be mostly dosing the water sitting in the top of the res which probably sees less circulation than any other point in the system. OTOH, if I put it in the bottom, then it sees every drop that goes into the pump. Aside from draining the coolant, (which I'm going to make provisions to do easily) the retrofit wouldn't be that bad - I'd build the clarifier part first, then just cut the old res at the point where it would fit. Should be very straightforward.
Quote:
I have also noted the comment about string algae. It may be that this stuff is immobile and never gets washed through the system to see the UV light.
Thats my guess.
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That is the shortcoming of this approach to keeping a clean system.
True, but it might make the cleanouts less frequent.
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I don't think that we need "beneficial bacteria" in our systems b/c we don't have anything we want digested.
Agreed, I just put that comment in as further eveidence that the UV doesn't kill everything, so some kind of biocide would still be needed.

Gooserider
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Unread 08-18-2003, 03:33 PM   #103
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From the notes of an aquarist; One (obvious) thing you need to know about UV bacteria killers, is that they only kill bacteria that passes trhough the the tube containing the light.

This leaves plenty of other places for bacteria to grow on a water cooling system, such as the walls of the tubes, where the UV light will *never* reach.

My 2 cents.
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Unread 08-19-2003, 12:01 AM   #104
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Quote:
iggiebee From the notes of an aquarist; One (obvious) thing you need to know about UV bacteria killers, is that they only kill bacteria that passes trhough the the tube containing the light. This leaves plenty of other places for bacteria to grow on a water cooling system, such as the walls of the tubes, where the UV light will *never* reach.
This makes some sense, but how big of an issue is it?

Are you attempting to say that using a UV sanitizer is a relatively non-useful mod? (or at least not worth the money?)

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Unread 08-19-2003, 03:31 PM   #105
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I think that what makes sense here, is starting a rig fron new, and using the UV light to prevent the contamination from increasing. Some bio stuff might stick to wall, and some might live in the water, and some might just come off the rest of the loop to become free floating in the water. Those that float would get killed.
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Unread 08-19-2003, 03:36 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
I think that what makes sense here, is starting a rig fron new, and using the UV light to prevent the contamination from increasing. Some bio stuff might stick to wall, and some might live in the water, and some might just come off the rest of the loop to become free floating in the water. Those that float would get killed.
agreed.
You cannot take a jacked up and slimed out system and fix it with the UV lights.
But i do think it would definately slow or stop a new system from developing such a problem.
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Unread 08-21-2003, 12:16 AM   #107
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That is what I am hoping, also -to prevent or slow growth in a new system.
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Unread 11-25-2003, 02:08 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gooserider

Agreed, I just put that comment in as further eveidence that the UV doesn't kill everything, so some kind of biocide would still be needed.

Gooserider
I just re-read this thread, and i have to disagree.
The comment is about this quote:
Quote:
While UV sterilizers usually do no harm, do not use one when you first cycle your aquarium, as it may kill beneficial bacteria before they attach to the bio-media or gravel. Also, many medications can be "denatured" by the UV light, so the sterilizer should be turned off when using medications, especially chelat
They are saying the UV DOES kill everything, so turn it off until the bacteria can attach to your gravel, etc.
So in our case, just make sure you start with a clean system and no worries - bacteria never live long enough to attach.

(iu know its like a huge thread resurrection, but i missed the end of this thread and felt the need to speak!)
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Unread 11-25-2003, 11:52 PM   #109
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Haven't read through the entire post but this is my suggestion.
Water baddies need sunlight to grow right??
Why not cut off the sunlight for a day or 2 by covering your comp with a blanket

Just a thought .......
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Unread 12-01-2003, 11:18 PM   #110
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Quote:
georgeteo Haven't read through the entire post but this is my suggestion. Water baddies need sunlight to grow right?? Why not cut off the sunlight for a day or 2 by covering your comp with a blanket Just a thought .......
Not all of them do. Microbes are amazingly versatile critters, and many can either grow on multiple different methods depending on what is available, or go dormant until what they need becomes available again... Shutting off the lights would probably slow them down for as long as the lights were off, but as soon as they came back on the critters would be waiting to pick up where they left off.... These things are far harder to kill than larger lifeforms like plants, pets, and people...

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Unread 12-02-2003, 12:09 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gooserider
Not all of them do. Microbes are amazingly versatile critters, and many can either grow on multiple different methods depending on what is available, or go dormant until what they need becomes available again... Shutting off the lights would probably slow them down for as long as the lights were off, but as soon as they came back on the critters would be waiting to pick up where they left off.... These things are far harder to kill than larger lifeforms like plants, pets, and people...

Gooserider
As GooseRider says, cutting off the lights just makes a different form of microbes grow. Trust me, i tried it. My res is clear, and int he light, certain organisms were growing. I blocked light to it for three weeks, and all that got me was different organisms...
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Unread 12-03-2003, 05:27 PM   #112
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This is a great idea and an interesting read!
I like the idea of a pump-res-light combo.

The problem I see with this is that if the bug is not in the presence of the light for long enough it could survive and mutate and become UV resistant. The only way I can think of to solve this is to have a large light container so that the water/bugs slow down and spend long enough in the light's presence to die completely. A problem considering that these things are already big.

A container with a mirror interior surface will probably help as the light is then reflected back into the water , to do more work, rather than absorbed by the container walls. Dont know how to make or where to find something like that.

Another potential problem: Having the pump in the presence of the light could pose a problem as the plastic they are made from may not be UV resistant. Unless its an outdoor pump maybe.

Keep up the good work!
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Unread 01-05-2004, 07:02 PM   #113
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Default 5 months of UV Goodness, here's skinny on the aftermath

Being one of the original pioneers of this method of biomatter containment I figured it was high time to post my results after 5 months of running with a UV Clarifier.

First, to start this off, I was in dire straights, having had a massive algae bloom that ruined my pump, I was stuck starting from scratch with a completely new tube setup. So XX$s and an hour later I had my new tubes in place and began the "scrubbing" session of running on pinesol and water for awhile.

A few hours later I was happy with the results, as the black stuff was long gone.

So I hooked in the UV Clarifier, added coolant (water, Antifreeze, Algaecide), purged as much air as I could, and decided to let it ride.

After about 3 months I noticed some brown algae growing on the sides of the tubes, but it was nothing fierce and didn't really impede flow. However, at the six month mark it's starting to be a problem, temps getting up to 47C, not too good for WC...

So I'm back to the same old problem. How to have a system that works, is quiet, and has no bugs, ever.

Is this even possible? To read the trade sites and forums it seems everyone has sparkling clear tubes but me.

Ahh hell.

So, just to let you know, the UV Clarifier does make life better, for a time, but in the end, it only contains the biomatter to a point.

"Life finds a way."

So, can I run on something other than water and not go blind from the fumes?

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Unread 01-05-2004, 08:51 PM   #114
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I've been using only Swiftech HydrX solution (1 bottle to 1l of tap water) for 3mths now since setting up my watercooling setup. I've changed the configuration of my setup a few times ... that means exposing the water+solution to air on a number of occasions. But I would reintroduce the same solution back into the setup after each alteration. To this date ... not a single 'water creature' was seen lurkig in my watercooling setup.

I believe that these solutions will help curb the growth of new 'water creatures' only if there were none in the water in the first place. Maybe you already have a bunch of them living happily in your radiator which later moved house and expanded throughout your watercooling setup.

I'd suggest removing EVERY single component in your watercooling setup and cleaning it throughly.
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Unread 01-06-2004, 06:09 PM   #115
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I am not sure if it has been mentioned, but I noticed that Radioshack is selling the replacement UV bulbs for their bateria killing air filters.
I look like it would be an easy mod to attach to a cooling kit.

But I also know that UV can damage lots of types of plastics and acrilics.
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Unread 01-07-2004, 07:38 PM   #116
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Thanks for the update h4rm0nix, I appreciate the information.

I guess the bottom line question is whether looking at the UV setup in retrospect, do you think the money was worth it, or would you have been better off with a different solution?

Quote:
So I'm back to the same old problem. How to have a system that works, is quiet, and has no bugs, ever. ... So, can I run on something other than water and not go blind from the fumes?
Well I agree with georgeteo in that it sounds to me like you have either a reserve of critters living somewhere in your system that isn't getting killed by your cleaning methods, or possibly that you are somehow contaminating your setup when you refill it.

One possibility that occurs to me is that if you have a multi tube design rad (like a heater core) you might have a single tube that's blocked up with life forms. Since the tube is blocked, your solvent doesn't circulate through it, and the bugs in the middle don't get killed. Then once you go back to a non-lethal solution, they expand back into the system. I think the only cure is to run a constantly biocidal coolant formula, and take the cooling performance hit that comes with less than pure water.

I would point you at airspirit's comments elsewhere on the site, as he seems to have found both a cleaning formula that gets rid of the bugs and a cooling blend that stops them from coming back...

Good luck,

Gooserider
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Unread 01-07-2004, 08:01 PM   #117
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Default Was it worth it...

It's really hard to say, if it was worth it or not. I didn't get any real algae blooms again, in fact the only real thing that happened was the tubes browned some. Like I said before, I went something like six months without any need to flush, so I guess that's pretty good.

The cost? I can't recall how expensive the device was, something like $75 dollars I think. Worth it for that amount, if you can take incorporate it into your case, however, remember, it's too big for most cases so it's going to require a side mount.

Bottom line. If your in a boat like mine, very tired of getting critters, and can't seem to find out what will work, this device just may work for you.

It's done more for me than I expected it would.


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Unread 01-12-2004, 09:34 PM   #118
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Do wc systems that are completely in the dark inside a case with no lights still get algae in them? Just curious. Seems like having no light on it has got to help quite a bit. I built my system to keep the lines in the dark, and provided a way to quickly evacuate the system with a wet vac and refill. Never thought of using UV light though so this thread is most interesting. Reducing maintenance=GOOD.
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Unread 01-12-2004, 09:54 PM   #119
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Yes, from what others say, there are algae that can live in complete darkness.

I'm no biologist, but I would think some of them can live on that nice warm water and nutrient rich tube linings.

As far as the UV goes.. I would say this.. if you can afford the $70 dollars for a UV clarifier, spend twice that and get some Fluorinert, http://www.hamptonresearch.com/hrproducts/2797.html....

It's a 3M product, use it instead of water, it's dielectric and I would bet nothing can be live in it.

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Unread 01-15-2004, 10:40 PM   #120
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h4rm0nix -You have lost me on this stuff. Please explain.

"Use it instead of Water" ?? What are some of it's properties?
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Unread 01-15-2004, 10:48 PM   #121
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Flourinert is significantly inerior to water in heat capacity terms. On the other hand leaks are no problem for electrical issues as you can dip the whole system in it without it frying.
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Unread 01-15-2004, 10:59 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butcher
Flourinert is significantly inerior to water in heat capacity terms. On the other hand leaks are no problem for electrical issues as you can dip the whole system in it without it frying.
I see from the link above that it has a high vapor pressure, but if the heat content is low then I am not interested. The dielectric properties are nice, though. I still may build a bath system some day...and sold in 100 mL bottles...

Fluorine used to be used in some automated cleaner / degreasers -pretty good stuff.

I can't relate to the surface tension figures. Will the stuff "wet" a copper surface?
Anyway -if it is not a good coolant, then I am not interested...and it is hazardous.
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Unread 01-16-2004, 10:59 PM   #123
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Don't dunk your hard drives in it :shock: they are designed to run in air, not liquid! Otherwise, I have seen people use mineral oil (often refrigerated to sub zero temps) as a full immersion bath. It would do about the same I expect, be far less expensive and lower environmental risk.

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Unread 01-17-2004, 02:57 AM   #124
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Oil is somewhat more viscous in general, especially at low temperatures.
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Unread 01-21-2004, 06:13 PM   #125
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Quote:
Butcher:
Oil is somewhat more viscous in general, especially at low temperatures.
True, but if you cool the system tank, that doesn't matter. It isn't something I'd do, but there are lots of threads on it over in the radical cooling (phase change) area.

Gooserider
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