what do you think of this? - Page 4

Heavy_Equipment · 03-10-2002, 07:53 PM

As I'm sure you're aware, the ALi Magik is the underdog when compared clock for clock to a KT266A. Being the owner of two Iwill XP333's and one Epox 8KHA+, I can say that confidently.

The bios doesn't let you set much manually, CAS latency really, then there's 6 presets:Failsafe, slow, normal, fast, ultra, and ultra2

Cas 2 normal is the best I can get my 2.5 Micron to run at. It won't even post at 2.5 fast. While on the Epox, I can go Cas2, Turbo, 4way interleave...without using the 3/4 memory divider, so I know this memory is capable. Leaves me hoping that Iwill is figuring out a fix...the 1/5th divider performance is just a bios update away. lol

I don't have any experience with wpcredit, I found it a bit overwhelming actually. I had no idea what I was looking at, trying to do the HALT trick on the 266a. (I run a DC agent, so I don't idle anyway) I know I don't want to start playing with registers...too rich for my blood. One of these days, I'll unlock this processor again, I cleaned it off after I started running at 10.5 again, with plans to redo it later.( I couldn't use any higher multis)

EMC2 · 03-10-2002, 10:37 PM

Dayum, wasn't thinking and forgot the IWill used the ALI chipset. The ALI chipset DOES use the PCI bus to link the NB<=>SB. But there still should be no activity going on during membenches.

As far as Wcpredit, all you would have had to do is open it and do a screen capture of the window

But... in the case of the ALI chipset, I couldn't help

Brad · 03-10-2002, 11:34 PM

The ALI was originally designed for sdr + ddr ram, and it was the first ddr chipset available, When you remember that, it is actually really good

Heavy_Equipment · 03-11-2002, 07:04 PM

In Iwill's defence(and my own) the Revision C chipset, (this one) is 1000% better than the original. I waited for this board for a long time, based on the early buzz about it, and I was PISSED when they unveiled it...with the ALi. I went the KT266a route for awhile. A few surprising reviews later, I picked one up. Long story short...I own two now.

I'm kinda glad the KT333 wasn't as good as it should have been, self justification for my choice.

I have to admit though, it looks like I'll be jumping on the KT400(KT333a?)bandwagon next.

Brad · 03-11-2002, 10:20 PM

it's because the reviewers don't run 166/166, if they did there would be a huge increase in performance

Cyph3r · 03-11-2002, 11:24 PM

heck or even 194/194 like i saw in one review... very respectable oc... have to have the chip unlocked tho... he got it to do 200/200 but the mem command time went up to 2 from 1 and seriously hurt mem performance... I'll probly go the kt333 route as the kt400 probly won't be out when i upgrade.

Cyph3r

EMC2 · 03-12-2002, 05:58 PM

Of course you do know that 200Mhz FSBs are being done on KT266A boards, right? (up to 205 range actually). At this point I really don't see what the KT333 will offer other than "official" support for 166Mhz. Until they get to the KT400, I'll personally stay with my hand (but then I usually only upgrade every other "generation").

As with the first round of TI4600 cards. I'll be patient and wait till they couple them with Samsung's newest 400Mhz graphics DDR memory (currently in the hands of developers for testing)

Heavy_Equipment · 03-12-2002, 07:41 PM

I have seen a few 8KHA+ WCPUid screenshots in the 180's, and 1 or 2 at 200...all I can do is think "lucky bastards".

My 3D card pukes after 166. (83) I notice these guys are running late model 3D. (Radeon 8500, Geforce4)

As much as my Geforce2 MX 400 is BEGGING to be replaced, I will never buy a "brand new, must have" card again. I bought my Geforce DDR(Annihilator Pro) a couple weeks after it came out, for just under $500 Canadian. Not 18 months later, the Geforce 3 was out, and I couldn't give my card away.

I've also heard a rumour that Amd is switching to a 166 fsb processor soon, (but NDA's are in place) in order to get a few more models out of the palomino, before thoroughbred is ready. (Tbred will be 166

)

Kinda makes sense though, why would there be a wave of 333(+)chipsets starting? There's no way Amd would allow proprietary chip vendors to sell "overclocking" chipsets. All part of a grander scheme.

I'm sure glad the title of this thread "What do you think of this" sounds like an open discussion...I got in on rads, and now look

Brad · 03-12-2002, 09:14 PM

I think it is because amd wants to see just how much ddr2700 can be produced. if there is a shortage with it, right now you can just run at 133/133, big deal. While running at 166/133 with a TBred would just be really stupid, amd just wants to feel the market. Also, kt333, sis645, sis745, ali craptastic 1 will all allow amd to see how much pc2700 can be produced

Heavy_Equipment · 03-14-2002, 11:23 AM

Quote:

ali craptastic 1

LMAO

...hey, wait a minute.

PetDMC · 03-14-2002, 05:26 PM

well back to MY topic

i got my HC and it needs some TLC

but now it looks like it is not copper

anyway...

what fans should i use?? i have 2 comair rotron muffin XL fans (120mm) which i will make shroud or use 3 ThermalTake 90mm or 6???

here's the heater core

Heavy_Equipment · 03-14-2002, 05:57 PM

Ok, seeing as I'm guilty for straying off topic, let me try to help here. Those 3 sections are roughly 4" squares. 4" = 101.6 mm.

I'd build a duct, and you can either taper it to fit 3 silent 80 mm's(my pick, no noise is good noise)...or flare it out for 3 120's. The 120's will cool better, but good luck on the noise. The 120mm Sunon I have (KD1212PTB1-6A) is loud (90cfm, 3100 rpm, 44.5 dba), and won't start at 7v.(Can "hot swap" it to 7v after it spins up, but just rocks back and forth if I start at 7v...and even then, it's not really quiet) The KD1212PTB3-6A is 69cfm,2400rpm,35.5 dba...but I find 20dba to be my high limit now since going to H2O. My 80's are in the 10-12dba range, and guestimating 20cfm.

I don't have any experience with 92mm fans, so I won't comment on them, but they are the closest to the 102mm x 102mm that you need for a perfect fit.

*EDIT*
It sounds like a good size too...you have roughly 308 square cm of surface, I have roughly 258. And I could fit your rad into my system way better than mine.

PetDMC · 03-14-2002, 06:25 PM

well the 120 arn't too very loud

i have a 92mm that sux at blowing compaired to the comair's

Heavy_Equipment · 03-14-2002, 06:29 PM

I guess it boils down to personal taste. A noise-to-performance ratio.

All I know, my core does a decent job without the biggest fans...yours is going to kick ass with it's larger surface area, and some real airflow.

PetDMC · 03-14-2002, 06:44 PM

now i need to find some reostats that can handle 6 watt's

Heavy_Equipment · 03-14-2002, 07:05 PM

Ever been to Bigfoot computers on Dundas?

Here's the 17w x 4 fanbus they sell. Kinda pricey, but maybe you can find out the parts to DIY. At 17w per rheostat, you can actually run 8 fans. Just wire 2 per switch, and you're still well under the rated load.

PetDMC · 03-14-2002, 07:11 PM

yup, been there... the first thing i bought there was 120 YSTech 131CFM fan

loudest fan i've heard
it's even louder then the 2 Comair Rotrons @ max

Edit:

heres some info on the fan(s) http://www.comairrotron.com/DCFans/MuffinXLDC.htm # 4 from the top

Brad · 03-14-2002, 08:24 PM

Panaflo make some quiet 120mm 69cfm fans that are even quieter at 7v or 5v, I doubt you'd hear them at 7v

PetDMC · 03-15-2002, 07:01 AM

umm i don't think i would like to spend $30 for just one 120mm Panaflo

EMC2 · 03-15-2002, 08:01 AM

PetDMC - Rheostats in the 10W range are not cheap either, usually in the $15 to $20 range. If you aren't going to be constantly adjusting them, you would be better off either just running them at 7V or using adjustable power resistors ($7 range) from a cost standpoint. Examples of choices are here.

Regarding getting fans to start at lower voltages, you can solve that problem by putting a 5 to 10 microfarad capacitor across the resistor to supply them with the startup juice they need

Jim · 03-15-2002, 09:54 AM

I am going to make one of these with the 350 for 3 watts.

This is a tutorial on build the regulator.

Go here.

Jim

Heavy_Equipment · 03-15-2002, 10:58 AM

Pet,
You find 50 dba "not too loud"?

30 years of dirt bikes, atvs, snowmobiles, 1000 watt car stereos, and more recently diesel engines has left my hearing far from "good", and I cringe at the thought of 30 dba. lol

OM-freakin-G!!!!!! I just thought of something I was often heard saying circa 1990..."if it's too loud, you're too old"

I think I need to change my Depends.

WebMasta33 · 03-15-2002, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
Panaflo make some quiet 120mm 69cfm fans that are even quieter at 7v or 5v, I doubt you'd hear them at 7v

^ I have one, my HDs are louder than the fan. (IBM 60GXPs) I'm sure if it was run at 7v, it wouldn't be audiable unless you stuck your ear up to it.

Brad · 03-15-2002, 03:33 PM

hmm, my 60gxp's aren't too loud at all really, so they must be very quiet fans

PetDMC · 03-15-2002, 06:17 PM

how about one of them slider things

03-10-2002, 07:53 PM	#76
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	As I'm sure you're aware, the ALi Magik is the underdog when compared clock for clock to a KT266A. Being the owner of two Iwill XP333's and one Epox 8KHA+, I can say that confidently. The bios doesn't let you set much manually, CAS latency really, then there's 6 presets:Failsafe, slow, normal, fast, ultra, and ultra2 Cas 2 normal is the best I can get my 2.5 Micron to run at. It won't even post at 2.5 fast. While on the Epox, I can go Cas2, Turbo, 4way interleave...without using the 3/4 memory divider, so I know this memory is capable. Leaves me hoping that Iwill is figuring out a fix...the 1/5th divider performance is just a bios update away. lol I don't have any experience with wpcredit, I found it a bit overwhelming actually. I had no idea what I was looking at, trying to do the HALT trick on the 266a. (I run a DC agent, so I don't idle anyway) I know I don't want to start playing with registers...too rich for my blood. One of these days, I'll unlock this processor again, I cleaned it off after I started running at 10.5 again, with plans to redo it later.( I couldn't use any higher multis) Last edited by Heavy_Equipment; 03-10-2002 at 07:58 PM.

03-10-2002, 11:34 PM	#78
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	The ALI was originally designed for sdr + ddr ram, and it was the first ddr chipset available, When you remember that, it is actually really good __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-11-2002, 07:04 PM	#79
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	In Iwill's defence(and my own) the Revision C chipset, (this one) is 1000% better than the original. I waited for this board for a long time, based on the early buzz about it, and I was PISSED when they unveiled it...with the ALi. I went the KT266a route for awhile. A few surprising reviews later, I picked one up. Long story short...I own two now. I'm kinda glad the KT333 wasn't as good as it should have been, self justification for my choice. I have to admit though, it looks like I'll be jumping on the KT400(KT333a?)bandwagon next. Last edited by Heavy_Equipment; 03-11-2002 at 07:26 PM.

03-11-2002, 10:20 PM	#80
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	it's because the reviewers don't run 166/166, if they did there would be a huge increase in performance __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-12-2002, 07:41 PM	#83
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	I have seen a few 8KHA+ WCPUid screenshots in the 180's, and 1 or 2 at 200...all I can do is think "lucky bastards". My 3D card pukes after 166. (83) I notice these guys are running late model 3D. (Radeon 8500, Geforce4) As much as my Geforce2 MX 400 is BEGGING to be replaced, I will never buy a "brand new, must have" card again. I bought my Geforce DDR(Annihilator Pro) a couple weeks after it came out, for just under $500 Canadian. Not 18 months later, the Geforce 3 was out, and I couldn't give my card away. I've also heard a rumour that Amd is switching to a 166 fsb processor soon, (but NDA's are in place) in order to get a few more models out of the palomino, before thoroughbred is ready. (Tbred will be 166 ) Kinda makes sense though, why would there be a wave of 333(+)chipsets starting? There's no way Amd would allow proprietary chip vendors to sell "overclocking" chipsets. All part of a grander scheme. I'm sure glad the title of this thread "What do you think of this" sounds like an open discussion...I got in on rads, and now look Last edited by Heavy_Equipment; 03-12-2002 at 07:57 PM.

03-10-2002, 10:37 PM	#77
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	Dayum, wasn't thinking and forgot the IWill used the ALI chipset. The ALI chipset DOES use the PCI bus to link the NB<=>SB. But there still should be no activity going on during membenches. As far as Wcpredit, all you would have had to do is open it and do a screen capture of the window But... in the case of the ALI chipset, I couldn't help

03-11-2002, 11:24 PM	#81
Cyph3r Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: West Lafayette, IN Posts: 45	heck or even 194/194 like i saw in one review... very respectable oc... have to have the chip unlocked tho... he got it to do 200/200 but the mem command time went up to 2 from 1 and seriously hurt mem performance... I'll probly go the kt333 route as the kt400 probly won't be out when i upgrade. Cyph3r

03-12-2002, 05:58 PM	#82
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	Of course you do know that 200Mhz FSBs are being done on KT266A boards, right? (up to 205 range actually). At this point I really don't see what the KT333 will offer other than "official" support for 166Mhz. Until they get to the KT400, I'll personally stay with my hand (but then I usually only upgrade every other "generation"). As with the first round of TI4600 cards. I'll be patient and wait till they couple them with Samsung's newest 400Mhz graphics DDR memory (currently in the hands of developers for testing)

03-12-2002, 09:14 PM	#84
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I think it is because amd wants to see just how much ddr2700 can be produced. if there is a shortage with it, right now you can just run at 133/133, big deal. While running at 166/133 with a TBred would just be really stupid, amd just wants to feel the market. Also, kt333, sis645, sis745, ali craptastic 1 will all allow amd to see how much pc2700 can be produced __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-14-2002, 05:57 PM	#87
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	Ok, seeing as I'm guilty for straying off topic, let me try to help here. Those 3 sections are roughly 4" squares. 4" = 101.6 mm. I'd build a duct, and you can either taper it to fit 3 silent 80 mm's(my pick, no noise is good noise)...or flare it out for 3 120's. The 120's will cool better, but good luck on the noise. The 120mm Sunon I have (KD1212PTB1-6A) is loud (90cfm, 3100 rpm, 44.5 dba), and won't start at 7v.(Can "hot swap" it to 7v after it spins up, but just rocks back and forth if I start at 7v...and even then, it's not really quiet) The KD1212PTB3-6A is 69cfm,2400rpm,35.5 dba...but I find 20dba to be my high limit now since going to H2O. My 80's are in the 10-12dba range, and guestimating 20cfm. I don't have any experience with 92mm fans, so I won't comment on them, but they are the closest to the 102mm x 102mm that you need for a perfect fit. EDIT It sounds like a good size too...you have roughly 308 square cm of surface, I have roughly 258. And I could fit your rad into my system way better than mine. Last edited by Heavy_Equipment; 03-14-2002 at 06:20 PM.

03-14-2002, 06:25 PM	#88
PetDMC Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 109	well the 120 arn't too very loud i have a 92mm that sux at blowing compaired to the comair's

03-14-2002, 06:29 PM	#89
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	I guess it boils down to personal taste. A noise-to-performance ratio. All I know, my core does a decent job without the biggest fans...yours is going to kick ass with it's larger surface area, and some real airflow.

03-14-2002, 06:44 PM	#90
PetDMC Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 109	now i need to find some reostats that can handle 6 watt's

03-14-2002, 07:05 PM	#91
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	Ever been to Bigfoot computers on Dundas? Here's the 17w x 4 fanbus they sell. Kinda pricey, but maybe you can find out the parts to DIY. At 17w per rheostat, you can actually run 8 fans. Just wire 2 per switch, and you're still well under the rated load. Last edited by Heavy_Equipment; 03-14-2002 at 07:10 PM.

03-14-2002, 07:11 PM	#92
PetDMC Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 109	yup, been there... the first thing i bought there was 120 YSTech 131CFM fan loudest fan i've heard it's even louder then the 2 Comair Rotrons @ max Edit: heres some info on the fan(s) http://www.comairrotron.com/DCFans/MuffinXLDC.htm # 4 from the top Last edited by PetDMC; 03-14-2002 at 07:14 PM.

03-14-2002, 08:24 PM	#93
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	Panaflo make some quiet 120mm 69cfm fans that are even quieter at 7v or 5v, I doubt you'd hear them at 7v __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-15-2002, 07:01 AM	#94
PetDMC Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 109	umm i don't think i would like to spend $30 for just one 120mm Panaflo

03-15-2002, 08:01 AM	#95
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	PetDMC - Rheostats in the 10W range are not cheap either, usually in the $15 to $20 range. If you aren't going to be constantly adjusting them, you would be better off either just running them at 7V or using adjustable power resistors ($7 range) from a cost standpoint. Examples of choices are here. Regarding getting fans to start at lower voltages, you can solve that problem by putting a 5 to 10 microfarad capacitor across the resistor to supply them with the startup juice they need

03-15-2002, 09:54 AM	#96
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	I am going to make one of these with the 350 for 3 watts. This is a tutorial on build the regulator. Go here. Jim Last edited by Jim; 03-15-2002 at 02:21 PM.

03-15-2002, 10:58 AM	#97
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	Pet, You find 50 dba "not too loud"? 30 years of dirt bikes, atvs, snowmobiles, 1000 watt car stereos, and more recently diesel engines has left my hearing far from "good", and I cringe at the thought of 30 dba. lol OM-freakin-G!!!!!! I just thought of something I was often heard saying circa 1990..."if it's too loud, you're too old" I think I need to change my Depends.

03-15-2002, 03:33 PM	#99
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	hmm, my 60gxp's aren't too loud at all really, so they must be very quiet fans __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-15-2002, 06:17 PM	#100
PetDMC Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 109	how about one of them slider things

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