Hi from me, And your thoughts on this Mill

pippin88 · 10-25-2002, 08:33 AM

Hi,

Im from Sydney Australia and live on the Overclockers Australia Forums (forums.overclockers.com.au - Well worth registering IMO, just like this place)

Been WC for quite a while, I feel I know my stuff.

What I don't know much about is mills and milling. This is something I'm very interested in, as I plan to get one (or rather I plan for my dad to get one

).

My dad found this little mill. http://www.clisby.com.au/MillingMachine.html. I didn't realise how small it was till I read the measurements again, Less than a foot high. I know this is really just a toy mill but I plan to use it for the occaisonal waterblock making (Milling Copper and Perspex).
Also wondering how easy a mill like this can be converted to CNC. And for what cost (Handy if you state whether you are talking in USD or AUD, but I'll assume USD unless otherwise stated.).

Another option me and my Dad are looking into is a nice big lathe (500KG+, its quite a good one) and getting a decent milling post for it, problem with this is that I don't think it can be converted to CNC down the track, something which I would really like, as I'd like to be able to sell blocks in the future.

Sometime I'll have to go look in the machinery shops (Emco (I think you have them) Hare and Forbes (SP?))

Thanks for any help.

Cheers,
pippin88

LiquidRulez · 10-25-2002, 11:38 AM

Link doesnt work

Puzzdre · 10-25-2002, 12:01 PM

Well, I dunno much about mills and milling, but reading the threads for the last two months I learned something - copper IS a milling category for itself.

This mill looks so small and weak on power side, it looks like something engraving machine.

Try to look for Fixittt, Morphling and Jaydee116's threads, those guys are gurus for milling stuff with lots of experience (No, ChrioN, I didn't forget about you, but maybe in month or two...

)

You'll find lots of stuff on mills and milling, and CNCing...

Oh yes, lemme be the first this time, Welcome to the forums!

bigben2k · 10-25-2002, 12:40 PM

If you play with the link a bit, it's there.

The first unit is 12V powered
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to Pro/Cooling. What your dad has in mind is far more appropriate. Jaydee116 will tell you that it's not convenient to use a small tabletop machine with copper, while Fixittt (in true American fashion

) will advocate that bigger is better, and rightfully so.

But you're not out of the woods yet.

Most units can be converted to CNC, that's not a problem. As I'm finding out, milling small details isn't so simple!

Good luck, and keep us posted!

pippin88 · 10-25-2002, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LiquidRulez
Link doesnt work

Fixed, it just had a fullstop on the end.

When I thought about that little Mill I was pretty sure It'd be too small and weak, a possibilty was to change the motor though.

Can a lathe set up for milling be converted to CNC mill? I don't think it can but Im not sure.

I believe the lathe he lokked at (and made an offer on) is a decent unit, but I would like to be able to CNC. Though the CNCing would be for a business venture in the future so maybe I should buy a proper mill then and stick with the lathe setup for manual milling for now. Possibilities.

Cheer,
pippin88

pippin88 · 10-27-2002, 11:05 PM

Ok, should be going to look at the EMCO store on the weekend. Might also be able to go look at another store called Hare and Forbes (Sp?)

Im looking for a mill in the price range of 1000-1500 AUD (500-750 USD) Not much I know

Fixittt · 10-27-2002, 11:20 PM

Ok, Ill chime in on this one, As I love these types of threads.

First off, I dont think you will be happy with that mill. Its a great looking machine, But was designed for something totally different then what you want to do. Its a seriouse machine, Made for seriouse work. (Dont mind my spelling, its my fingers fault) But that work it was deisgned to do, is in soft materials, IE. wood, plastic, wax. You could in fact make a copper water block on it. But it would take forever. With very small cuts. So for what you are wanting to do, No its not a good choice.

I would suggest taking a look at this wonderfull site. www.desktopcnc.com It has lots of manufacturers.
Also www.harborfreight.com is a good one.

Some of the smaller mills will have problems in copper. As it is a very dence and sticky metal. I think JayDee found this out. (Knudge Knudge) But alot of the smaller mills are good for this type of work, you just have to do it a bit slower.

I have the MAXNC15 OL found here www.maxnc.com It is a bit on the weak side, but with making mods to the machine, I have gotten good performance. Right now I am replacing the 1/5th HP 10,000 rpm motor with a 1 Hp 30,000 RPm motor.

I would also suggest doing some web searches for Used Machines Also E bay has some good ones on from time to time.

Good luck, and Hope it works out for you. But please do some research on machining techniques first, would not want you to hurt yourself. And get 3 or 4 pairs of Good comfortable saftey glasses.

pippin88 · 10-27-2002, 11:39 PM

Stupid IE carshed so I lost my reply.

I'm happy to mill slowly etc. Im in no rush (hey a slow mill is better than no mill).

I think Im going to have to go with a reasonable manual mill and CNC seems quite expensive. I'd also like the ability to mill manually which a CNC mod would allow me to do easier than if I bought a CNC from the factory mill.

I always use eye protection when working with something that could fly into or damage my eyes. My eyes are worth more than the small hassle of wearing goggles (My dads also a doctor so hes had to fix the consequences many times and it don't sound pretty)

Cheers for all your help.

Fixittt · 10-27-2002, 11:49 PM

I just found the mill you had in the link above on ebay for $250
It also looks like it will only hold one size endmill, which is NOT good.

I also found a bench top mill in the $900 + range. Looked pretty good.

pippin88 · 10-28-2002, 12:14 AM

Probably only looking for something within Australia. Long time and very expensive to ship from the states.

ChrioN · 10-28-2002, 07:46 AM

It would be awesome to have a small mill like that, to cncconvert and then engrave with. sweet wouldnt it...

Fixittt · 10-28-2002, 09:31 AM

That would be a perfect machine to engrave with. add $1000 to the price for a cnc kit. Not bad, Sure beats the hell out of the $3000 + I paid for mine, but I use mine for soooo much more.

Althought I have done some kick ass engraving with mine, Man do i need some webspace so I can post pics again.

pippin88 · 10-28-2002, 02:35 PM

$1000 US to convert to CNC? Or is that just for a kit that has everything?

A while ago I read up on grabbing stepper motor from certain dot matrix printers that were perfect etc. and doing it all and it was supposed to come in quite cheap (<150 US or something)

Puzzdre · 10-28-2002, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pippin88

A while ago I read up on grabbing stepper motor from certain dot matrix printers that were perfect etc. and doing it all and it was supposed to come in quite cheap (<150 US or something)

Can you post that link? I'd like to have DIY engraving-cutting machine made like that...

redleader · 10-28-2002, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Right now I am replacing the 1/5th HP 10,000 rpm motor with a 1 Hp 30,000 RPm motor.

You did all those blocks at 1/5HP? The mill I've been practicing on is 1HP. It must be bigger then I thought.

pippin88 · 10-28-2002, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Puzzdre
Can you post that link? I'd like to have DIY engraving-cutting machine made like that...

I just googled it. Will have a dig in a while and post some links probably.

pippin88 · 10-28-2002, 10:39 PM

http://www.luberth.com/plotter/content.htm

pippin88 · 10-30-2002, 12:37 AM

Ok my dad went to Hare and Forbes (Who make the brand HAFCO).

He grabbed the catalogue.

Two of interest (Right sorta price range and features).

1: HM-10
Milling & Drilling CAP: 13mm
Face Milling CAP: 25mm
Spindle Taper: 3MT
Spindle Speeds: 0-2500 (Variable)
Spindle to Table: 200mm
Max Long. Travel: 228mm
Max. Cross Travel: 100mm
Weight: 65kg
Motor: 1/2hp/240V

Price: $995 AUD ($500 USD approx)

2: HM-30
Milling & Drilling CAP: ???
Face Milling CAP: ???
Spindle Taper: No 3mt
Spindle Speeds: 12 (150-2080)
Spindle to Table: 457mm
Max Long. Travel: 585mm
Max. Cross Travel: 200mm
Weight: 325kg
Motor: 1500W (2HP) 240V
Also states:
Column Diameter: 115mm
Spindle Stroke: 130mm

Price: $1650 ($800 USD approx)

Thoughts?

Cheers,
pippin88

pippin88 · 10-31-2002, 01:25 AM

Also are channels cut with endmill bits or slotting drills?

Fixittt · 10-31-2002, 09:42 AM

they are cut with endmills. Majority of side load cutting will be done with endmills.

pippin88 · 10-31-2002, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fixittt
they are cut with endmills. Majority of side load cutting will be done with endmills.

Thats what I thought, its just my dad said something about using slot thingos.

Thoughts on the mills?

Fixittt · 10-31-2002, 03:50 PM

Always go with bigger, and stronger when it comes to cutting metal. 2HP is good! Faster feedrates. I would also look to see if auto feed controls can be installed on the lead screws. For the long cuts. Its an electric box with a dial on it, that will automaticly turn the lead screw at a set IPM (Inches per Minute) Also digital readouts are great to have as well. A good add on feature. More percise.

Fixittt · 10-31-2002, 03:52 PM

Did your dad say anything about T-slots? they are the slots cut into the table. For holding down fixtures and vises.

Thats the only thing I can think he was talking about.

bigben2k · 10-31-2002, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fixittt
Always go with bigger, and stronger ...

I told you so!

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
...while Fixittt (in true American fashion ) will advocate that bigger is better, and rightfully so.

pippin88 · 10-31-2002, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fixittt
Did your dad say anything about T-slots? they are the slots cut into the table. For holding down fixtures and vises.

Thats the only thing I can think he was talking about.

Nope I know what T slots are etc.

There was a picture in the catalogue showing something that looked almost exactly like a drill (I can't really see and difference) but it is cutting a slot sideways.

I'll look into the feedrates stuff but Im pretty sure it had one of those auto feeds under the suitable accesoried bits

Also I may well be able to get the largere machine, as I just got my pocket money (allowance) increased a lot (16th Bday in less than a month)

Cheers,
pippin88

10-25-2002, 08:33 AM	#1
pippin88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 285	Hi from me, And your thoughts on this Mill Hi, Im from Sydney Australia and live on the Overclockers Australia Forums (forums.overclockers.com.au - Well worth registering IMO, just like this place) Been WC for quite a while, I feel I know my stuff. What I don't know much about is mills and milling. This is something I'm very interested in, as I plan to get one (or rather I plan for my dad to get one ). My dad found this little mill. http://www.clisby.com.au/MillingMachine.html. I didn't realise how small it was till I read the measurements again, Less than a foot high. I know this is really just a toy mill but I plan to use it for the occaisonal waterblock making (Milling Copper and Perspex). Also wondering how easy a mill like this can be converted to CNC. And for what cost (Handy if you state whether you are talking in USD or AUD, but I'll assume USD unless otherwise stated.). Another option me and my Dad are looking into is a nice big lathe (500KG+, its quite a good one) and getting a decent milling post for it, problem with this is that I don't think it can be converted to CNC down the track, something which I would really like, as I'd like to be able to sell blocks in the future. Sometime I'll have to go look in the machinery shops (Emco (I think you have them) Hare and Forbes (SP?)) Thanks for any help. Cheers, pippin88 Last edited by pippin88; 10-25-2002 at 04:50 PM.

10-25-2002, 12:01 PM	#3
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Well, I dunno much about mills and milling, but reading the threads for the last two months I learned something - copper IS a milling category for itself. This mill looks so small and weak on power side, it looks like something engraving machine. Try to look for Fixittt, Morphling and Jaydee116's threads, those guys are gurus for milling stuff with lots of experience (No, ChrioN, I didn't forget about you, but maybe in month or two... ) You'll find lots of stuff on mills and milling, and CNCing... Oh yes, lemme be the first this time, Welcome to the forums! __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

10-25-2002, 12:40 PM	#4
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	If you play with the link a bit, it's there. The first unit is 12V powered HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to Pro/Cooling. What your dad has in mind is far more appropriate. Jaydee116 will tell you that it's not convenient to use a small tabletop machine with copper, while Fixittt (in true American fashion ) will advocate that bigger is better, and rightfully so. But you're not out of the woods yet. Most units can be converted to CNC, that's not a problem. As I'm finding out, milling small details isn't so simple! Good luck, and keep us posted! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-27-2002, 11:20 PM	#7
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	Ok, Ill chime in on this one, As I love these types of threads. First off, I dont think you will be happy with that mill. Its a great looking machine, But was designed for something totally different then what you want to do. Its a seriouse machine, Made for seriouse work. (Dont mind my spelling, its my fingers fault) But that work it was deisgned to do, is in soft materials, IE. wood, plastic, wax. You could in fact make a copper water block on it. But it would take forever. With very small cuts. So for what you are wanting to do, No its not a good choice. I would suggest taking a look at this wonderfull site. www.desktopcnc.com It has lots of manufacturers. Also www.harborfreight.com is a good one. Some of the smaller mills will have problems in copper. As it is a very dence and sticky metal. I think JayDee found this out. (Knudge Knudge) But alot of the smaller mills are good for this type of work, you just have to do it a bit slower. I have the MAXNC15 OL found here www.maxnc.com It is a bit on the weak side, but with making mods to the machine, I have gotten good performance. Right now I am replacing the 1/5th HP 10,000 rpm motor with a 1 Hp 30,000 RPm motor. I would also suggest doing some web searches for Used Machines Also E bay has some good ones on from time to time. Good luck, and Hope it works out for you. But please do some research on machining techniques first, would not want you to hurt yourself. And get 3 or 4 pairs of Good comfortable saftey glasses. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

10-27-2002, 11:49 PM	#9
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	I just found the mill you had in the link above on ebay for $250 It also looks like it will only hold one size endmill, which is NOT good. I also found a bench top mill in the $900 + range. Looked pretty good. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

10-25-2002, 11:38 AM	#2
LiquidRulez Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In Hell Posts: 322	Link doesnt work

10-27-2002, 11:05 PM	#6
pippin88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 285	Ok, should be going to look at the EMCO store on the weekend. Might also be able to go look at another store called Hare and Forbes (Sp?) Im looking for a mill in the price range of 1000-1500 AUD (500-750 USD) Not much I know

10-27-2002, 11:39 PM	#8
pippin88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 285	Stupid IE carshed so I lost my reply. I'm happy to mill slowly etc. Im in no rush (hey a slow mill is better than no mill). I think Im going to have to go with a reasonable manual mill and CNC seems quite expensive. I'd also like the ability to mill manually which a CNC mod would allow me to do easier than if I bought a CNC from the factory mill. I always use eye protection when working with something that could fly into or damage my eyes. My eyes are worth more than the small hassle of wearing goggles (My dads also a doctor so hes had to fix the consequences many times and it don't sound pretty) Cheers for all your help.

10-28-2002, 12:14 AM	#10
pippin88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 285	Probably only looking for something within Australia. Long time and very expensive to ship from the states.

10-28-2002, 07:46 AM	#11
ChrioN Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 318	It would be awesome to have a small mill like that, to cncconvert and then engrave with. sweet wouldnt it...

10-28-2002, 09:31 AM	#12
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	That would be a perfect machine to engrave with. add $1000 to the price for a cnc kit. Not bad, Sure beats the hell out of the $3000 + I paid for mine, but I use mine for soooo much more. Althought I have done some kick ass engraving with mine, Man do i need some webspace so I can post pics again. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

10-28-2002, 02:35 PM	#13
pippin88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 285	$1000 US to convert to CNC? Or is that just for a kit that has everything? A while ago I read up on grabbing stepper motor from certain dot matrix printers that were perfect etc. and doing it all and it was supposed to come in quite cheap (<150 US or something)

10-28-2002, 10:39 PM	#17
pippin88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 285	http://www.luberth.com/plotter/content.htm

10-30-2002, 12:37 AM	#18
pippin88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 285	Ok my dad went to Hare and Forbes (Who make the brand HAFCO). He grabbed the catalogue. Two of interest (Right sorta price range and features). 1: HM-10 Milling & Drilling CAP: 13mm Face Milling CAP: 25mm Spindle Taper: 3MT Spindle Speeds: 0-2500 (Variable) Spindle to Table: 200mm Max Long. Travel: 228mm Max. Cross Travel: 100mm Weight: 65kg Motor: 1/2hp/240V Price: $995 AUD ($500 USD approx) 2: HM-30 Milling & Drilling CAP: ??? Face Milling CAP: ??? Spindle Taper: No 3mt Spindle Speeds: 12 (150-2080) Spindle to Table: 457mm Max Long. Travel: 585mm Max. Cross Travel: 200mm Weight: 325kg Motor: 1500W (2HP) 240V Also states: Column Diameter: 115mm Spindle Stroke: 130mm Price: $1650 ($800 USD approx) Thoughts? Cheers, pippin88

10-31-2002, 01:25 AM	#19
pippin88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 285	Also are channels cut with endmill bits or slotting drills?

10-31-2002, 09:42 AM	#20
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	they are cut with endmills. Majority of side load cutting will be done with endmills. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

10-31-2002, 03:50 PM	#22
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	Always go with bigger, and stronger when it comes to cutting metal. 2HP is good! Faster feedrates. I would also look to see if auto feed controls can be installed on the lead screws. For the long cuts. Its an electric box with a dial on it, that will automaticly turn the lead screw at a set IPM (Inches per Minute) Also digital readouts are great to have as well. A good add on feature. More percise. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

10-31-2002, 03:52 PM	#23
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	Did your dad say anything about T-slots? they are the slots cut into the table. For holding down fixtures and vises. Thats the only thing I can think he was talking about. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

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