pumping, apart from a 'fountain' pump

[arjo]

now, i really want to get into water cooling, as i have been researching for way to long, but i am stuck on the pump. now, the trend is to go out and by a big eheim pump, and no wonder you recon that water cooling is expansive! what i want, is alternative (read: cheap) pump sources.
im thinking a pump from a dead washing machine, but havent tried that yet, and i read of someone using this (http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.st...uct/View/P8907), at 5 volts so it can be left on permanantly, but you can get 'proper' pumps for that price.
has anyone used any out of the ordinary to pump their water, with good results, for a dirt-cheap price?

[JSimmons]

Flow is the key.

For $22, you can't beat a Via Aqua (stated flow of 370 gph). However, the Eheim 1250 is the "pump of choice". It's physically larger and pricier (almost 3x as much as the Aqua), but it has earned a loyal following among water cooling advocates due to it's durability, low noise, and flow characteristics. You could also try a Danner Mag 3. It's available for about $40, and is more powerful than eitherof the pumps I've already described.

Keep in mind that prepping your system for water cooling is a lot like prepping a car for the drag strip, where the following is always true:

"Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"

With the growing commoditization of water-cooling and wide availability of every component neeeded to build such a system, it is no longer necessary to jury rig your system. Do yourself a favor, and just buy a pump that is known to work well. It will save you buttloads of time and probably buttloads of money, and you'll spend a loty more time *using* your computer rather than working on it.

[arjo]

ha, the fun is in stuffing around with it, not USING it lol!

i think you missed my point, i want something alternative, and cheap. the dse price is in AU$ not US$, so ur $22 is app AU$44. id prefer not to spend over 20 aussie bucks. sorry if that is in AU$, and im treating u like a idiot.
at the moment, i am waiting for some selastic (sillicone goop) to dry, that is waterproofing the 240v power terminals. when that is dry, ill do some testing.
will report

[Talik]

note: unless noted otherwise, prices are in Australian

Your missing the point. So, assuming that $20usd is roughly the same value as $40aus, then that's not very much money. Not sure how it is over there, but over here it's pretty easy to go out to dinner, or to a bar and spend way more than that. Hell, I take shits worth more than that. (and it looks a little like this --> )
The point that JSimmons was trying to make is that a pump is one of the most important parts of your system. Not only is it an important part of making your water system circulate, as it is critical to have adequate flow, but an old misfit pump such as one from an old dead washing machine would probably create and add quite a bit of heat to your water. Most importantly, however, more important than flow and heat addition, is reliability. Old dead washing machines are dead for a reason. Because they are old and worn out. When you skim and save $20 on your pump, and it dies, and your system stops flowing, and your cpu gets hot and burns itself to itty bitty pieces, and you have to spend an extra $400 for a new proc, you will realize that it's worth it to cut back that $1 a day for the next 20 days to get that via.

[JSimmons]

The less you pay for your stuff (no matter who's currency you're using), the less likely you'll have an acceptable level of performance. The cheapest acceptable pump for a typical water-cooling system that I've found is the Via Aqua 1300 for $22 (USD).

There really is not reason to scavange for parts in a junkyard when purpose-built personal computer water-cooling components (at all price ranges) are generally available on the net. Why go to all the trouble, and time?

[Zhentar]

I have to agree with the above- when your cheap pump fails, it won't be so cheap anymore.

My method is to cut the money off the processor- in a year it will be hopelessly outdated, but your pump won't.

Regardless of how you do it, going to cheap can be costly.

[arjo]

i dont really want to piss anyone off here, but i have some really important things to say.
one. yes, it isnt hard to spend that amount on a meal. but i aint working. which makes it hard to spend much at all. So, i want as cheap as possible. as totally humanley possible (which cuts out selling grandma on the black market).
two. pick your machine wisley. mine is from a newer machine, it has very little rust on it at all. i guess that the problem with the machine (and hence the reason it was thrown out) was a problem in the motor, which was built into the base of the drum, hence replacing it involved not only a new motor, a new drum to. so the pump works fine.
yes, it does get hot, but im working on that.
you are missing the point though.
the point is to get it as cheap as possible. so far i have spent AU$8. on a chunk of scrap copper to make a waterblock out of. thats for a pump, heater core, water block, and tubing. i may spend a few more cents on pipe joiners, but its hard to beat

[8-Ball]

If you're trying to save money, then make yourself a cheap waterblock, get a heatercore out of a car wreck, but don't skimp by getting a cheap pump.

Eheims are popular because they have gained a reputation for being reliable.

The point folks are trying to make is that you can save money on waterblocks and rads, they won't perform as well (probably) but there is nothing to fail. But if your pump fails, then your cooling fails, and if you don't have thermal protection built in, your processor dies in a matter of seconds, minutes if you're lucky.

Moral of the story, it ain't worth trying to save money on the pump.

Have a look at OCAU forums for advice. They will be able to better advise you as to what is cheap over in OZ, cos I know from looking round OCAU, that eheims are really expensive over there. However, they will know what is good and reliable, and will fit your budget.

Hope this helps

8-ball

[arjo]

ok, it has a built-in overheating protection, at 70c (fixed), so itll get hot, but nothing will die. anyways, there is always MBM
but back to the actual topic of the post. im trying to find alternatives to the standard fountain pump. surely a fishpond fountain isnt the only thing that small pumps are used for, and im trying to find out what they are. i know the dangers of dead pump, i just want alternatives. remember, that is where the origins of hobbyist water cooling came from. people wanted a alternative from a chunk of aluminium or copper strapped to their cpu, and then forcing enough air to run a wind tunnel through it, so they tried somthing new. people have done experimentation with water blocks and radiatiors, but i have only seen 1 alternative of pumping (which was using a car fuel pump, and understandibly, it failed). im trying to 'get the ball rolling', as well as seeing your opinions.

[8-Ball]

There are alternatives to those used for aquariums and fountains, but believe me when I say they are more expensive.

Jabsco/johnson make small DC magdrive pumps designed for cooling in performance race cars and power boats, but these are usually around $150-200, for a relatively small model. They are very nice though, and money no object, I would use a couple of these in serial.

Iwaki is one of a number of companies making pumps which tend to be used for pumping chemicals in labs/factories and so on. These have added value due to the materials used in their construction which need to be non reactive. The are also very reliable and very powerful, but equally, are very expensive.

If you start looking for pumps below those used for aquaria and fountains, you start having to worry about whether they are rated for continuous use and so on.

Face it, decent pumps need not be expensive. I would suggest spending the same on your pump as you would on your waterblock, or more.

8-ball

[MadDogMe]

I've read positive threads about washing machine pumps (not sure on the validity though ). They were stated to be very quiet and very powerful (not sure if it was pure GPM or head included), and if I remember correctly some of them are even rated for continuos usage (third party ones). One bloke had used lots of different brands and models, I can't remember where I read it though and it was quite a while ago, a year or three , but it is worth looking into...

[arjo]

thats more like it!
well, my pump is noisy, bout the same as a fan (a little louder), and can pump ~22L/m.
unfortunatley, it gets hot, but im working on this. any ideas?
the best bit is, it cost me bugger-all, from the tip. ive only run it for a while (prob 3/4 of a hour), so i dont know how long it'll last, time will tell.

[Enyin]

Let us know how it works out! Maybe you could post a picture of the pump

One side note - you mention above that you have 'built in' thermal protection...if you're talking about thermal protection built into the motherboard I would think twice about trusting your cpu to that. There was an article somewhere a few months ago that simulated fan failure and tested those built in protection mechanisms - turns out on AMD processors it was crap, the cpu fried so fast the mobo couldn't do anything in time.

I think the conclusion of the article was that they presented the info to AMD who said they would look into fixing it but I know I wouldn't trust my chip to that. Maybe you could do a cheap flowmeter / thermal protection circuit with an old case fan

[Ice Czar]

Originally posted by JSimmons
The less you pay for your stuff (no matter who's currency you're using), the less likely you'll have an acceptable level of performance.

Generally true but there are exceptions
I picked up 2x refurbished Little Giant 500GPH pumps for $30 each
that said they will be configured in parallel so a failure of one will not kill anything (Rackmount config 4>6 computers)

[bigben2k]

This deal might be of interest here.