DH3 question.. and my plans.. comments?

[asymmetric]

First, about the DH3..

I was just wondering why the send and return lines were bundled together.. just seems to me you'd get a fair amount of heat transfer between the lines with then strapped together like that.

Now, my plans..

Ok, I just picked up a KT7 and a 1.2ghz thunderbird, to replace my "aging" MSI-6167/Athlon 500@600 setup, and am running a "cool" 60C according to the socket backside thermistor on the KT7. I'm not really all that bothered by the heat, but all the liquid cooling looks like it'd be something cool to try, and helpful in future OC attempts, soooo..

So far, having just been reading various articles and reviews, I've been drawing up some ideas for a system to fit totally within my midtower case, before I move on to a new one with more space.

I'm imagining.. a ~90w TEC setup on the tbird, with a copper water block. Now, since I don't want to pump just luke-warm air-cooled water back to the hot side of the processor TEC, I plan to run the return into a TEC cooled radiator of sorts. In my mind, I'm seeing something like the 5in x 10in radiator setup at www.overclock-watercool.com, but with a few twists..

1. I'd like a "finless radiator." Really just a length of copper pipe curved back and forth several times, tighter than the radiator has, and then the whole thing pressed a bit to make it nice and flat.

2. Having flattened the pipe, I'd rather mount four 40w TECs. Heatsink the hot sides with two slot-style heatsinks, and then slap the fans on to those and blowhole the hot air out my case.

I've got the space up top for the radiator assembly, my top 5.25 drive bay is empty, and there is easily another inch or more of space above that, with probably enough space towards the back for the pump. If not, there is space enough for that down at the bottom of the case.

Anyone see anything wrong with a setup like this? I'm not worried about the particulars such as the size of the fans and the cooling tecs just yet.. I'll decide on firm values there once I've measured everything out and determined what will fit where, and just how much cooling I want on the water before it returns.. more interested in any "gotchas" or particulars to look out for when picking the wattage of the TECs, etc.

-asym

[Freakyfrank]

1. More raw cooling on your Tbird;like a 156W TEC.
2. heatsinking 4 pelts is not a very good idea... but could work
3. use a radiator+fan before the heatchanger
4. use a slow pump
5. put your pump on the lowest point

u can get your radiator at the local car-breakers yard. they dont cost u a thing. I also got one.. as big as 1 cdrom drive with a half one attached at the back. And get a decent fan 2x 120 or sth..

------------------
OC'ing is my middlename

[asymmetric]

Originally posted by Freakyfrank:
1. More raw cooling on your Tbird;like a 156W TEC.
2. heatsinking 4 pelts is not a very good idea... but could work
3. use a radiator+fan before the heatchanger
4. use a slow pump
5. put your pump on the lowest point

u can get your radiator at the local car-breakers yard. they dont cost u a thing. I also got one.. as big as 1 cdrom drive with a half one attached at the back. And get a decent fan 2x 120 or sth..

Could you expand some on why heatsinking those TECs is a bad idea? I want to find some way to pump really cold water back to the hot side of the processor.. using the TECs was also the reason I wanted to just use the tubing/piping instead of a real radiator.. attaching the TECs to the fins on a radiator seems like a big waste to me..

[Kevin]

Originally posted by asymmetric:

I was just wondering why the send and return lines were bundled together.. just seems to me you'd get a fair amount of heat transfer between the lines with then strapped together like that.

Thick-walled silicone doesn't really transfer heat that well...

[eTiMaGo]

you want cool water? do it vanilla style: Ice, ice baby! seriously, try and make a relatively large reservoir and alternate icepacks in there. that'll keep your H20 nice and frosty, but beware of condensation on the tubes...

[Joe]

Originally posted by asymmetric:
First, about the DH3..

I was just wondering why the send and return lines were bundled together.. just seems to me you'd get a fair amount of heat transfer between the lines with then strapped together like that.
-asym

The way its worked is ALL the cold runs to teh CPU's or the 3rd loop, are not bundled with the hot runs. Silicone is not the worlds best conductor of heat so I am not too worried about "transfering heat like that. Yes the bundle will be hot, but its meant to be that way.


Your ideas about a heat exchanger are good, but may need to be refined a bit. You need to use something with more surface area to cool the coolant then just a flat pipe. I am thinking more along the lines of a special waterblock just for that. ( Like the one Kev has from Danger Den, or the ones OCWC sells.
You also will need to work on having a perfect airflow past hose HSF's cause if they cant push the heat away fast enough, your pelts will just barely be working on the coolant and may generate more heat then anything. The way its been done in the past is:
Sandwich the pelts in 2 blocks, one to super cool the coolant to the CPU, the other to carry heat away to the hot side. ( i did an article about this once... lemme look for it)

OK I went and cleaned it up and RE-posted my orgininal TritiumTech.com water cooling project, it covers the pelt/ heat exchanger cooling techniques.
Go to http://www.ProCooling.com/ttech

enjoy!

------------------
C-ya
Joe - Owner/Editor
www.ProCooling.com
Where the Completely Addicted Come to Cool Off

Somebody set up us the bomb.

[asymmetric]

Originally posted by Joe:
The way its worked is ALL the cold runs to teh CPU's or the 3rd loop, are not bundled with the hot runs. Silicone is not the worlds best conductor of heat so I am not too worried about "transfering heat like that. Yes the bundle will be hot, but its meant to be that way.

Ah.. ok then. It was kinda hard to tell from the pictures, and someone had mentioned about the silicone tubing earlier.

Your ideas about a heat exchanger are good, but may need to be refined a bit. You need to use something with more surface area to cool the coolant then just a flat pipe. I am thinking more along the lines of a special waterblock just for that. ( Like the one Kev has from Danger Den, or the ones OCWC sells.

Ok.. I had considered one of the waterblocks also, but I want to keep the system as contained as possible in the smallish case I have right now.. I'm not sure if I could fit two loops in there. I know I should just go with a bigger case, and thats on my list anyway for other reasons.. but you know.. I've just got to "see if I can do it" with the setup I currently have.

I've got enough room up top with a 5.25" drive bay, and all the space above it to the top of the case, which will be partially cut away anyway, and enough room on the bottom of the case in front for the pump.

You also will need to work on having a perfect airflow past hose HSF's cause if they cant push the heat away fast enough, your pelts will just barely be working on the coolant and may generate more heat then anything. The way its been done in the past is:
Sandwich the pelts in 2 blocks, one to super cool the coolant to the CPU, the other to carry heat away to the hot side. ( i did an article about this once... lemme look for it)

OK I went and cleaned it up and RE-posted my orgininal TritiumTech.com water cooling project, it covers the pelt/ heat exchanger cooling techniques.
Go to http://www.ProCooling.com/ttech

enjoy!

Checked out the article, good information there.. I was thinking of thinking of using four normal cpu waterblocks instead of the piping, but I thought with the pipes I could get maximum surface area. The closer I can get the surface area of the pipes to match the surface area of the water inside them (small diameter pipes) the better cooling I think I'll get of the water. I'm concerned that a waterblock setup may end up cooling the outside of the water volume somewhat, but not cooling the interior volume all that much.

What I had envisioned was something like four feet of copper pipe, about 1/4 inch diameter, bent back and forth to fit in about 9" of length, and maybe 6" wide. The hammering flat on two sides was just to provide a better mounting surface for the TECs.. I've just been chanting the mantra "surface area, surface area." over and over.

Probably better than bending the pipe would be to get 10 segments of 9" 1/4 pipe, and connect the ends to create the long winding path.. that way I could get them directly adjacent to eachother instead of the space I'll get with the curving.. and come to think of -that- I could probably find some kind of metal "pipes" in a more rectangular shape already, and not have to screw around flattening anything..

I'll be thinking about using waterblocks instead, pipes as a second choice.. Do you really think I'll need to create the TEC sandwich on the heat exchanger? If so.. I imagine the higher power tecs should go towards the HSFs, correct? Maybe some small like 40w's on the waterblock side, and 50 or 60w's on the HSF side? I am assuming using the same power on both of them would be kinda pointless..

Thanks for all the info man.. I'm still doing a lot of research before laying out the cash and cutting holes in my case..