"Radius" by BigBen2k - Page 5

bigben2k · 10-21-2002, 02:25 PM

Here's Utabintarbo's CAD representation:

Fixittt, what now?

PS: the fin pattern has been increased to a radius of 20mm (diameter = 40 mm). This is not necessary, but it's there so that it can all be more easily understood. 30mm diameter would not include the posts at diameter 30.

gone_fishin · 10-21-2002, 03:26 PM

Do you see what I see after some quick paint skills to the lower portion of your design? Pairs of parallel cuts with small pie wedges left at the outer edge which does not sit over the die area. What is wrong with simplifying in this way? Everyone always loves to dig out the KISS addage ya know

bigben2k · 10-21-2002, 03:32 PM

I see!

Yes, that would be fine. It's outside of the 15 mm radius, so the effect is negligeable.

utabintarbo · 10-21-2002, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
I see!

Yes, that would be fine. It's outside of the 15 mm radius, so the effect is negligeable.

I shall adjust the design for your perusal and edification!

Stay tuned!

Bob

Fixittt · 10-21-2002, 10:52 PM

email me a DXF file of the drawing.
fixittt@cimtel.net

I talked to paul today (My master machinist friend) and he said he will try anything. As a personal favor to me. I feel I am gonna have to cash in a whole lot of favors for this one. Machining time is gonna be a B!t@H But hey now you have me wrapped up in this thing as much as U are.

U do know that if it is a good preformer, that I am gonna have to make at least 3 or 4 of them. One for you, one for me, and one for your fab. Cad designer. None other then the great utabintarbo !!!

I also want to try and make one in Plexy. Solid acrylic. So we can see how flow runs thure the block by adding small air bulles into the water.

Sound good?

Arcturius · 10-21-2002, 10:58 PM

I second the idea, Fixittt. If nothing else, acrylic is cheap and cuts fast so you can setup the machinery for a test run.

Fixittt · 10-22-2002, 12:04 AM

The only draw back is that acrylic gets gummy when hot and we are talking about a .040 in endmill here.

Geesh kinda scary! But I would love to see it etched out of acrylic!!!!

Come on guys lets put this into perspective. a 1 mm endmill has the thickness of a dime. the human hair is .004 and paper is .003 to .004 in.

Im wondering if we can get away with either a 3/64 or 1/16 if you want to know the MM equal remember the chart I posted in the machining preameters.

Arcturius · 10-22-2002, 12:08 AM

Fixittt: doesn't a lower rotation rate help to alleviate the melting of the acrylic?
Besides, we're all cooling geeks, I'm sure we can find a way to keep it cool enough to make chips without the melting...

gone_fishin · 10-22-2002, 12:21 AM

Polycarbonate machines much better without the gumming like acrylic.

utabintarbo · 10-22-2002, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fixittt
email me a DXF file of the drawing.
fixittt@cimtel.net

I talked to paul today (My master machinist friend) and he said he will try anything. As a personal favor to me. I feel I am gonna have to cash in a whole lot of favors for this one. Machining time is gonna be a B!t@H But hey now you have me wrapped up in this thing as much as U are.

U do know that if it is a good preformer, that I am gonna have to make at least 3 or 4 of them. One for you, one for me, and one for your fab. Cad designer. None other then the great utabintarbo !!!

I also want to try and make one in Plexy. Solid acrylic. So we can see how flow runs thure the block by adding small air bulles into the water.

Sound good?

First of all, thanks for the compliment. I am unworthy of it, however. I am not great, just really, really, really, really good! LOL!

(God, I make myself ill!)

What if we made the base in copper and fab'd up a housing in acrylic? Would that fill the bill? We could epoxy/jbweld it to the base. Whaddya think?

Bob

Fixittt · 10-22-2002, 08:27 AM

ohh I know a way to help keep it cool when machining. I put ice in my coolant bucket. Then add a little dish soap to the mix.

Fixittt · 10-22-2002, 08:30 AM

Hey utabintarbo You and I need to have a solid works show off.

I need some web space to host pics!!!

MadDogMe · 10-22-2002, 09:45 AM

Would'nt it be easier to make if the channels were where the fins are and the fins were where the channels are?. if you know what I mean?,lot better for flow I'd of thought, get rid of the solid 'cross' in the middlebetter still have it like a pie sliced into very thin slices. you coul;d always rework the optimisation out to suit it could'nt you?...

bigben2k · 10-22-2002, 10:26 AM

Thanks to everyone for your help, this couldn't be done without you!
CAD drawings and renders: Utabintarbo
Milling: Fixittt
Cube res drawing: Morphling1
cutting blade link: gone_fishin

and everyone else who participated: Puzzdre, MeltMan, myv65, Cathar, MadDogMe, fresno12, Can O' Beans, Dix Dogfight, Arcturius, N8 and #Rotor.

Fixittt, yeah, I guess that we could run some flow test, in an all acrylic prototype block. I already have a fair idea of how it's going to turn out, but I could be off: I'm not briefed on fluid dynamics beyond what plumbers should be. I was thinking about throwing some sparkly stuff in the water (inspired by my stepdaughter

)!

I've cut acrylic panels before, with a jigsaw, and I found that there is a specific range of feed rate that will keep the blade clear. Trial and error?

3/64 is 1.19mm. 1/16 is 1.587 mm. I've already established that 1/16 is too much. At 3/64, the 4th set of fins (psychadelic red)turns into "pointy thing", plus it will throw off the nozzle. I'd rather stick to 1 mm, as much as possible.

A dime, huh? That would make a neat saw blade... (NOT!)

Some progress: I picked up a foot of braided 1 1/2 ID (2" OD) tubing. It came on a roll so I have to straighten it out, but otherwise, that's the flow outlet.

MadDogMe: I thought about that, but the amount of copper left from all the cross cuts, would leave the core bare. There's no point in having any fins at all, if they don't cover the core.

bigben2k · 10-22-2002, 10:52 AM

Another update: Utabintarbo and I have been discussing some minor items.

1-I haven't specified a mount. I intend to go with a bolt mount. However, I believe that if the block is kept to the size of the socket, that an Innovatech type hold-down could be used, but that's not where I'm headed.

2-See http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=4324 . Paul Vodrazka has some interesting thoughts about the O-ring. We'll go with a 1/16 o-ring. I have to admit, the Swiftech gasket looks appealing...

3-(ref #2) I've asked Utabintarbo to make the top secured with 8 bolts, instead of 4.

4-Minor mods to the top (outlets). I figured that the outer channel would be "turned", where Utabintarbo saw it milled with a ball end endmill. I figured that the outside channel would have a radius of 5 mm. The outlets should be at the top of that curve. Since the outlet tube is now 1 1/2 ID, the top will be slightly modified. No effect on flow, but the fin pattern is going back to a 30 mm diameter.

We both agree about one thing: the top is part of the structural support, in addition to the fins themselves. I wouldn't want the baseplate to start caving in, even by a fraction of a mm, but neither of us is a mechanical engineer, so we just don't know for sure if an acrylic top would be sufficient, or if a copper one would be required, and in either case, at what thickness. Anyone?

Here's the latest render:

gone_fishin · 10-22-2002, 01:44 PM

It may just live after all

BTW nice show of class giving honorable mention to the help others provided

If you continue on with the KISS concept wherever you can, consider foregoing the ever popular o-ring channel and opt for a thin clear silicone gasket sheeting. I believe I posted a source here at one time. One less, and really unnecessary, milling operation. This also insures no cross channel leakage like can happen with an o-ring if it is not fully compressed.

bigben2k · 10-22-2002, 02:05 PM

DO you mean KISS or KISS A**

Another simplification I've been thinking about: there is a cut on each side of the first set of fins (set#1, psychadelic orange). These channels could be cut with the cutting wheels, leaving a curved pattern in the center, instead of going back with a 1 mm endmill, to cut it out.

It would make some weird kind of pyramid, about 5 mm high, and would optimize flow at that point.

The 1 mm endmill will still be needed, to finish the other channel junctions.

Searching for "silicone gasket"...

bigben2k · 10-22-2002, 02:28 PM

I found 3 references:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...ilicone+gasket

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...ilicone+gasket

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...ilicone+gasket

but they're all from JayDee116!

morphling1 · 10-22-2002, 03:19 PM

This turned out almost the same I had in mind including piramid in the centre which I believe it's not a bad thing.
Now how the hell am I supose to come out with another original idea that would work, cathar came up with his and now you got the whole team behind you will beat me with this one :shrug:
Oh well I guess I'll focus on graphic card blocks...
As my man Arnie said I'll be back

gone_fishin · 10-22-2002, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
I found 3 references:

but they're all from JayDee116!

I posted about it here, sorry no link but it is widely available at any hardware outlet.
In discussion here

A quote from myself,
""Transparent Silicone
Durometer 40A
Tensile Strength, psi 800
Elongation % 250

Get a clear view of your materials through this transparent rubber. Sheets are covered with a protective clear film (remove film before using). Rubber has a temperature range of -80° to +425° F. "

That was straight from the spec sheet of a supplier. It is not impossible to find and goes for about $12.00 per square foot at 1mm thickness. That will get you 24 gaskets at 2" X 3" so I don't see it being a huge cost but rather a cost saver. If you get it adhesive backed, it's a couple dollars more per square foot." end quote

From that discussion you should be able to know what to look for.

Morphling1, don't despair, give up the ship, hang it up, throw in the towel..... there is always room for improvement.

Fixittt · 10-22-2002, 08:32 PM

morphling1 and everyone else.

I have an idea and a challenge for all of us.

Seeing as we as a whole have been working on a block. And morph has been working on vid cooling.

Lets see if we cannot come up with something that is easy to make. (Unlike this block now) and something that we can match CPU, chipset, and vid cooling, and come up with a good preforming series or kit. Maybe take on making them. Maybe I can talk to Danny at D-tek, about selling. Granted we will prolly not see any money from it, but if we did the R&D we could give back to the hobby, like I have done with the Spir@l blocks.

gone_fishin · 10-22-2002, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fixittt
morphling1 and everyone else.

I have an idea and a challenge for all of us.

Seeing as we as a whole have been working on a block. And morph has been working on vid cooling.

Lets see if we cannot come up with something that is easy to make. (Unlike this block now) and something that we can match CPU, chipset, and vid cooling, and come up with a good preforming series or kit. Maybe take on making them. Maybe I can talk to Danny at D-tek, about selling. Granted we will prolly not see any money from it, but if we did the R&D we could give back to the hobby, like I have done with the Spir@l blocks.

Other people to profit from our free R&D? That does not sound like giving to the community to me. I do not see D-tek giving anything for free

Fixittt · 10-22-2002, 09:47 PM

Well look at it this way, If we design something that works, but cannot afford to get it made and distributed. But really enjoy the designing processes, why not pass it on to someone that can. Dtek, Danger Den, one of the better companies with a good rep. I picked D-Tek because of all the help Danny has given me when I needed it.

Wouldnt it be great to see a page on a site offering something that you had a hand in making. Of course there would be props given to all involved.

Now I understand that Morph, and Gone_fishin and a few others maybe trying to start a venture in selling some of there stuff. Maybe we could help them out with designing.

Im just trying to say, that if someone forked over the money to get the creations made why not.

I just think that "The Procooling" water kit. Sounds MEAN!!!!!!

Just a thought.

I wanna see some of this stuff in peoples computers!!!!!!!!!!!! and loving it. Thats all that I am saying!

Cathar · 10-23-2002, 12:19 AM

As a indicator of the milling process with the 1mm mill bit on my block.

Machine RPM: 4000
Mill pass depth: 0.5mm
Feed rate: 1mm/sec (2.5"/minute)

I was surprised that the RPM was so low.

They've now milled 10 blocks with the same bit.

They broke two initially (at 16USD each) getting the feed rate right, but after that it's been fine.

The sales rep for the machine came around while I was there and was amazed at what was being done, and took one of the bases as a way of showing off the milling machine's abilities to customers. There's never really much of a need for such fine milling as there is with my block so he was pleased to see that it could be done.

MadDogMe · 10-23-2002, 12:49 AM

Cathar!, how thin would you have made your channels if you'd used a disc cutter/arbour?, how deep?(for which diam' blade?)...

What I mean is, do you think there's be much(any) improvement taking it down to .5mm?...
******************

Fixit, I admire your attitude

...

10-21-2002, 03:32 PM	#103
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I see! Yes, that would be fine. It's outside of the 15 mm radius, so the effect is negligeable. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-21-2002, 10:52 PM	#105
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	email me a DXF file of the drawing. fixittt@cimtel.net I talked to paul today (My master machinist friend) and he said he will try anything. As a personal favor to me. I feel I am gonna have to cash in a whole lot of favors for this one. Machining time is gonna be a B!t@H But hey now you have me wrapped up in this thing as much as U are. U do know that if it is a good preformer, that I am gonna have to make at least 3 or 4 of them. One for you, one for me, and one for your fab. Cad designer. None other then the great utabintarbo !!! I also want to try and make one in Plexy. Solid acrylic. So we can see how flow runs thure the block by adding small air bulles into the water. Sound good? __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

10-22-2002, 12:04 AM	#107
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	The only draw back is that acrylic gets gummy when hot and we are talking about a .040 in endmill here. Geesh kinda scary! But I would love to see it etched out of acrylic!!!! Come on guys lets put this into perspective. a 1 mm endmill has the thickness of a dime. the human hair is .004 and paper is .003 to .004 in. Im wondering if we can get away with either a 3/64 or 1/16 if you want to know the MM equal remember the chart I posted in the machining preameters. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

10-22-2002, 08:27 AM	#111
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	ohh I know a way to help keep it cool when machining. I put ice in my coolant bucket. Then add a little dish soap to the mix. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

10-22-2002, 08:30 AM	#112
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	Hey utabintarbo You and I need to have a solid works show off. I need some web space to host pics!!! __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

10-21-2002, 10:58 PM	#106
Arcturius Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin Posts: 294	I second the idea, Fixittt. If nothing else, acrylic is cheap and cuts fast so you can setup the machinery for a test run.

10-22-2002, 12:08 AM	#108
Arcturius Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin Posts: 294	Fixittt: doesn't a lower rotation rate help to alleviate the melting of the acrylic? Besides, we're all cooling geeks, I'm sure we can find a way to keep it cool enough to make chips without the melting...

10-22-2002, 12:21 AM	#109
gone_fishin Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Da UP Posts: 517	Polycarbonate machines much better without the gumming like acrylic.

10-22-2002, 09:45 AM	#113
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	Would'nt it be easier to make if the channels were where the fins are and the fins were where the channels are?. if you know what I mean?,lot better for flow I'd of thought, get rid of the solid 'cross' in the middlebetter still have it like a pie sliced into very thin slices. you coul;d always rework the optimisation out to suit it could'nt you?...

10-22-2002, 10:26 AM	#114
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Thanks to everyone for your help, this couldn't be done without you! CAD drawings and renders: Utabintarbo Milling: Fixittt Cube res drawing: Morphling1 cutting blade link: gone_fishin and everyone else who participated: Puzzdre, MeltMan, myv65, Cathar, MadDogMe, fresno12, Can O' Beans, Dix Dogfight, Arcturius, N8 and #Rotor. Fixittt, yeah, I guess that we could run some flow test, in an all acrylic prototype block. I already have a fair idea of how it's going to turn out, but I could be off: I'm not briefed on fluid dynamics beyond what plumbers should be. I was thinking about throwing some sparkly stuff in the water (inspired by my stepdaughter )! I've cut acrylic panels before, with a jigsaw, and I found that there is a specific range of feed rate that will keep the blade clear. Trial and error? 3/64 is 1.19mm. 1/16 is 1.587 mm. I've already established that 1/16 is too much. At 3/64, the 4th set of fins (psychadelic red)turns into "pointy thing", plus it will throw off the nozzle. I'd rather stick to 1 mm, as much as possible. A dime, huh? That would make a neat saw blade... (NOT!) Some progress: I picked up a foot of braided 1 1/2 ID (2" OD) tubing. It came on a roll so I have to straighten it out, but otherwise, that's the flow outlet. MadDogMe: I thought about that, but the amount of copper left from all the cross cuts, would leave the core bare. There's no point in having any fins at all, if they don't cover the core. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-22-2002, 01:44 PM	#116
gone_fishin Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Da UP Posts: 517	It may just live after all BTW nice show of class giving honorable mention to the help others provided If you continue on with the KISS concept wherever you can, consider foregoing the ever popular o-ring channel and opt for a thin clear silicone gasket sheeting. I believe I posted a source here at one time. One less, and really unnecessary, milling operation. This also insures no cross channel leakage like can happen with an o-ring if it is not fully compressed.

10-22-2002, 02:05 PM	#117
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	DO you mean KISS or KISS A** Another simplification I've been thinking about: there is a cut on each side of the first set of fins (set#1, psychadelic orange). These channels could be cut with the cutting wheels, leaving a curved pattern in the center, instead of going back with a 1 mm endmill, to cut it out. It would make some weird kind of pyramid, about 5 mm high, and would optimize flow at that point. The 1 mm endmill will still be needed, to finish the other channel junctions. Searching for "silicone gasket"... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-22-2002, 02:28 PM	#118
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I found 3 references: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...ilicone+gasket http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...ilicone+gasket http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...ilicone+gasket but they're all from JayDee116! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-22-2002, 03:19 PM	#119
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	This turned out almost the same I had in mind including piramid in the centre which I believe it's not a bad thing. Now how the hell am I supose to come out with another original idea that would work, cathar came up with his and now you got the whole team behind you will beat me with this one :shrug: Oh well I guess I'll focus on graphic card blocks... As my man Arnie said I'll be back __________________ [My ftp, with lots of pics, hope to be home page someday

10-22-2002, 08:32 PM	#121
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	morphling1 and everyone else. I have an idea and a challenge for all of us. Seeing as we as a whole have been working on a block. And morph has been working on vid cooling. Lets see if we cannot come up with something that is easy to make. (Unlike this block now) and something that we can match CPU, chipset, and vid cooling, and come up with a good preforming series or kit. Maybe take on making them. Maybe I can talk to Danny at D-tek, about selling. Granted we will prolly not see any money from it, but if we did the R&D we could give back to the hobby, like I have done with the Spir@l blocks. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

10-22-2002, 09:47 PM	#123
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	Well look at it this way, If we design something that works, but cannot afford to get it made and distributed. But really enjoy the designing processes, why not pass it on to someone that can. Dtek, Danger Den, one of the better companies with a good rep. I picked D-Tek because of all the help Danny has given me when I needed it. Wouldnt it be great to see a page on a site offering something that you had a hand in making. Of course there would be props given to all involved. Now I understand that Morph, and Gone_fishin and a few others maybe trying to start a venture in selling some of there stuff. Maybe we could help them out with designing. Im just trying to say, that if someone forked over the money to get the creations made why not. I just think that "The Procooling" water kit. Sounds MEAN!!!!!! Just a thought. I wanna see some of this stuff in peoples computers!!!!!!!!!!!! and loving it. Thats all that I am saying! __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

10-23-2002, 12:19 AM	#124
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	As a indicator of the milling process with the 1mm mill bit on my block. Machine RPM: 4000 Mill pass depth: 0.5mm Feed rate: 1mm/sec (2.5"/minute) I was surprised that the RPM was so low. They've now milled 10 blocks with the same bit. They broke two initially (at 16USD each) getting the feed rate right, but after that it's been fine. The sales rep for the machine came around while I was there and was amazed at what was being done, and took one of the bases as a way of showing off the milling machine's abilities to customers. There's never really much of a need for such fine milling as there is with my block so he was pleased to see that it could be done.

10-23-2002, 12:49 AM	#125
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	Cathar!, how thin would you have made your channels if you'd used a disc cutter/arbour?, how deep?(for which diam' blade?)... What I mean is, do you think there's be much(any) improvement taking it down to .5mm?... ****************** Fixit, I admire your attitude ... Last edited by MadDogMe; 10-23-2002 at 12:56 AM.

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