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Random Nonsense / Geek Stuff All those random tech ramblings you can't fit anywhere else! |
View Poll Results: should it be legalized? | |||
YES- i smoked it/ tried it /cant live without it | 114 | 50.67% | |
YES- but i'v never tried but agree for medicinal use only | 38 | 16.89% | |
NO- tried it, dont think its good for anyone | 24 | 10.67% | |
NO- its is harmful and shouldn't be legalized | 49 | 21.78% | |
Voters: 225. You may not vote on this poll |
Thread Tools |
05-27-2003, 09:51 PM | #1 |
Cooling Savant
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Marijuana-what is it good for? :0
well we've had some messy debates in this forum, one about iraq and america, and then another one about religion
now through personal experience i've learned to not talk about politics or religion, but when i said that in the america vs iraq thread, someone started a religion pros and cons that just continued the mess. anyway, i think this is a topic that will generate some good productive discussion. and i chose it cause this stuff is everywhere, and now the canada laws have also just changed for it, http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968793972154 so should it be lagalized? why/why not?
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05-27-2003, 10:22 PM | #2 |
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I don't believe morality should be legislated so I am all for legalization. Having said that, there are a lot of positions that I wouldn't want a big time pothead doing for me (doctor, defense lawyer, chauffer, etc). Same goes for alcoholics though. I don't personally smoke though; I am lazy enough without it.
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05-28-2003, 12:01 AM | #3 |
Cooling Savant
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what about legalizing it for the purpose of producing products rather then recreational use? or what about legalizing it for medicinal use?
marijuana or canabis has literally thousands of uses other then smoking. if you were allowed to farm/harvest cannabis for commercial use, you would never have to chop down another tree, you can make oils, paper, clothing... and much more out of it. there are many arguments for it and they are true , but i've also heard many BS arguments against it, like its a gateway drug to more and harder drugs, thats complete BS, how many people here have smoked marijuana and are now crack heads?
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05-28-2003, 12:29 AM | #4 | |
Cooling Savant
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05-28-2003, 01:02 AM | #5 |
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Is marijuana a gateway to heavier drugs?
The question is not: "How many of those who smoke marijuana todday will smoke crack in a year?" The answer will of course be "A few percents". The question should be: "How many of those who smoke crack today started with marijuana?" Here we see that the answer is "A heck lot more than a few percent". So, yes, marijuana is a gateway to heavier drugs, and therefore there is only one way to treat it; avoid it like plague. regards Mikael S. |
05-28-2003, 01:32 AM | #6 | |
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I say if someone smokes pot then decides they want to smoke crack.... SO BE IT! Why do I care if someone decides they want to screw up their life? It is still a decision even if they are stoned out of their head.
I have smoked pot I always knew there was a distinction between something that is horribly addictive could possibly kill me the first time I smoked it and a plant that makes me feel loopy. Anyone that can’t see that distinction or doesn’t care and decides that they want to smoke crack deserves to smoke crack! Quote:
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05-28-2003, 02:13 AM | #7 |
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Cybersamurai: I have full respect for Your point that anyone is responsible for their own life. The problem in this drug topic is that a junkie destroys more than his/her own life. They´re messing around with stuff they´re not responsible for and is not of their concern.
If all junkies had their own little island far out in the ocean there would be no problem, since they could not affect anything but theimselves. Unfortunately that is not the case. regards Mikael S. |
05-28-2003, 07:03 AM | #8 |
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legal or not, it will be abused like anything else, but keeping it out of the hands of those who truly could use it medicinally is as bad as giving it to preschoolers. education is the only anti-drug! trying to hide/control it only gives it more mystique
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05-28-2003, 09:20 AM | #9 | |
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Quote:
i guess statistically you can say that it is but i bet every crack head started with pot, its the easest cheapest drug to get, but like cybrsamurai said "It may be statistically a "gateway drug" but there are probably reasons for this fact... Jumping to a conclusion like smoking pot will force you to smoke crack, is fairly silly." and i think if you move to harder drugs, its not because of marijuana, its because you have problems. i know alot of people that do it pretty much everyday and they;ve never used anything else,sure curiosity kicks in and they've tried a bit of this and that, but their common sense tell them NO. would it make everyone feel better that marijuana was once legal, and during prohabition they banned it.
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05-28-2003, 09:37 AM | #10 |
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Marijuana is a drug, and it's wrong to do it.
The Canadian proposed legislation is strictly an idea to reduce the administrative overhead. It may very well not pass. As I've stated before, making a law legalizing marijuana in order to better control the distribution amounts to nothing else but to use a law as an enforcement tool, and that is fundamentaly wrong, because laws are not tools, they are the very definition of our societies. Enuf said. |
05-28-2003, 10:20 AM | #11 |
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I have seen people who used marijuana heavily and went from smart and motivated people to some of the stupidest people I currently know. THC is a non-polar chemical and thus is soluble in fat. It stays in your system for long periods of time after ingestion (which is why you can get popped on a UA for much longer after use than most other drugs), and each additional use can build higher passive levels of it in your system. Since your brain has a high fat concentration combined with high blood flow, it forms a perfect storage recepticle for THC, and at high passive levels (from extended and/or heavy use) can interfere with your brain functions even when not using it. This can also cause permanent damage as neural pathways are degenerated inside of your brain: your memory fades and fails, and your cognitive abilties slowly are reduced. While over time the THC can all be removed from your body by discontinuing use, the damage that was caused while it was trapped in your tissues will not readily repair. As with all brain damage of this type, the damage is exponential in scale: the more that gets damaged, the more potential for future damage and the harder it is to recover those abilities. Simply put, pot makes you dumb if you smoke too much of it. While there hasn't been much in the way of clinical studies of this, you can see it in the blank and vacant gaze of your own local hippie or stoner. It doesn't take clinical trials to prove something we can demonstrate to be true.
With that said, I don't believe that OCCASIONAL recreational use would be too bad as long as it is used responsibly, but those that use it multiple times per day/week/month are really going to screw themselves in the long run. Drugs are bad, mmmkay?
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05-28-2003, 10:44 AM | #12 |
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What percentage of people who smoke pot and crack had tried alcohol previously? Wouldn't that also make alcohol like the initial gateway drug? There are a lot of issues with long term alcohol abuse as well.
I dont see where it is the job of govt to protect people from themselves. Personal responsibility is the key. People abuse big macs to the point that they are obese and die from neglect of their bodies; that is a problem with them and not with the hamburgers though. It's your body. It's your mind. Take care of it. This is separate from the way that addicts affect the rest of society. There are laws for stealing and DUI and murders that punish appropriately for the crime. Those punishments are unaffected by whether someone is high or drunk. It is perfectly legal to drug test for employment where being impaired may affect one's judgement or coordination. If you want to do drugs then you can't have those jobs. There already are consequences for decisions to do drugs and moral objections to them. I don't see where it is the job of govt to play parent to people and forbid them... |
05-28-2003, 11:14 AM | #13 |
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It's the government's responsability to interject when what someone does affects another one.
Drugs will cause people to do many, many things that will affect other people. Marijuana in particular is known to be involved in DUI, where people have died. If anything, it pushes the case to make cigarettes illegal, but they don't impair judgement, so they're still around. |
05-28-2003, 11:18 AM | #14 |
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Would the penalties for DUI change if marijuana were legal? No. In fact, DUI has a social stigma attached to it now that it didnt have 20 years ago, and MUCH stiffer penalties. This seems a more effective method of stopping DUI-related fatalities than making all substances which make one impaired illegal. I think you are giving too many of your personal freedoms away to government when they give you any old excuse why they want them back.
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05-28-2003, 11:37 AM | #15 | ||
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Quote:
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i think alot of people are caught up on the idea of smoking it rather then looking at alot of other benefits weed may have, Yes i smoke it now and then, do i agree with it for recreational use, not really, do i agree with it for medicinal/commercial use ABSOLUTELY. as for it being a gateway drug, was bob marley a crack head? no, are all rastafarians crack heads? NO, and in case someone doesn't know, its part of their religion to smoke pot.
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05-28-2003, 12:24 PM | #16 |
Cooling Savant
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Drugs should be legal AND cheap! This will have a very helpful "cleansing" effect upon the gene pool. Those that stay high will tend not to breed. Evolution in action!
Not to mention that if we have no right to decide what we can do with our own bodies, what rights do we really have?:shrug: Bob
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05-28-2003, 04:36 PM | #17 |
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i think most laws are correct. don't jail users , but don't start selling it in supermarkets either. in belgium the increase in -18 users has grown to dramatic proportions (+25%). i started smoking at 18 and stopped +/- at 25 (the paranoia in the end... that is no fun). meaning, i started at an age where i knew how important finishing university was. i couldn't dream of having started at 15 and screwing up my whole high school career.
so i am in a good position to understand that some people want the freedom to do what they want (heck, been there, done that). but what airspirit says is equally true. it IS degenerative in large and even small portions ... but we all like our beer, don't we, airspirit ;-). thing is, i have been a good balancing artist, but i can see alot of others who screwed up their university degrees and their parents money. not to say they are now cleaning toilets, but not the same job they would have done when they would have finished law school. i do have a couple of friends who smoke al000t of pot and 1 finished law school with highest honours, and another economics with highest honours (both on their way to becoming professors). but those are the 10%, the other 90% are working in factories after their flunked university careers. anyway, kids will do st00pid stuff, and when u r a kid u don't care too much. but i sure as hell wouldn't want my maybe future kids to be smoking pot at 15yrs of age. i wouldn't want to bet my chances that they are the lucky 10% that are smart enough to not let it interfere with their school / work.
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05-28-2003, 06:00 PM | #18 |
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ok just a few things so as not to belabor points already expressed:
1. Smoking pot does cause brain damage. 2. THC-B IS the active ingredient in pot, however THC-A is what is stored/detected and is not the same substance at all. 3. Alchohol kills people too. Many more in fact. Pot WAS legal in the USA until just AFTER the alchohol prohibition was revoked. It was through the use of culturally inflammatory and racist propaganda that it was then made illegal...as a consolation to the vocal religious segment of our society. Thats right it was just to make the zealots shut up. KEEP YOUR RELIGION OUT OF MY LIFE. 4. I smoke everyday that I have it. I did so in HS, and I certainly don't do crack. I certainly am not uneducated, my familyfreinds have never been harmed, nor anyone else by my choice. It has certainly done LESS damage to me than the excessive drinking i did in the USAF. the point here is that lumping any group of people or activity into one mold never works. laws are made broad for a reason, and minds are made broad by the exploration of other paths. my father grew up in a home where his father drank heavily, he later died of liver cancer...but not until he had managed to run himself in debt first from the drink, and then from the medical expenses. abuse comes in many forms, and anything can be abused. anythign can be a "gateway" to something else, and someone with an addict-inclination is going to find an addiction no matter WHAT laws you have in place. i respect your right to be whoever and whatever you wish; i support your choices. now. leave me to mine, and mind your own house.
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05-28-2003, 10:00 PM | #19 |
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Marijuana is not a bad thing. However, I am not saying its a blessing, but it is nothing that should be looked down upon. Yes, you are right, according to a study by the US army marijuana does cause brain damage but that’s after 5 years of heavy smoking (at least 3 times a week). Marijuana should be legalized because it’s not a bad thing. If marijuana was legalized crime wouldn’t go up, people wouldn’t all of the sudden start smoking pot, the only thing that would change is that people wouldn’t be getting arrested for something as stupid as having a joint on them. Also, I see no reason why marijuana is illegal and cigarettes and alcohol are not, both of which are far worse than marijuana. I am currently in high school, and I do smoke pot, I also am in the hardest classes I can take, and just started the IB (International Baccalaureate) program. I have never not made the honor roll in my school career, accept for maybe twice in middle school. I do, however know many people who have started smoking pot and gone down hill, but I would not blame it entirely on pot, most of them also started hanging out with the wrong people, skipping classes, and quit caring. I also have many very intelligent friends and classmates who have gotten arrested for having small amounts of marijuana on them, which goes on their record and also means they are sure as hell not gonna get into that ivy league school they have the grades for. Marijuana also does not have to be entirely legal, in Switzerland I believe it is legal to buy and sell it, but not smoke it, so as long as your not caught in the act of smoking its ok. In British Columbia it is illegal, but the authorities just look the other way (and we all know the high crime rates that British Columbia and Switzerland suffer from).
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05-29-2003, 01:20 AM | #20 | |
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Quote:
but i would still agree with that statistic, for the simple fact that anything in large amounts for a long period of time would be harmful. alcohol can ruin your liver, cigarettes give you lung cancer, even fast food will be harmful long term.
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05-30-2003, 01:52 AM | #21 |
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As you can see by my info, I live in the capital of the bud, and I don't think these laws passing will have an effect here in Vancouver. This stuff flows like water, instead of people asking to bum a smoke at the bus stop downtown, it's a toke they ask for. I'm a student working at a local gas station, and some minors, attempting to buy small cigars, rollies, etc, use the excuse that they are not going to smoke the tobacco as a reason for me to sell them these products without ID. With rising cigarette prices bring about bouts of comments that smoking is too expensive and pot is the cheap alternative. I don't smoke (anything) because that is my choice; however, hoping to raise my own children one day, I want them to be able to choose one day. I Don't Want dealers pressuringmy kids at their elementary schools, or high schools. I Don't Want their only choices to be Michael for 10cents a gram, or Johnny for 19cents for 2 grams. Do I want M-J leagalized, not really - do I notice anyone fearing lawful consequences for small amount possesion (this is where the laws are possibly being eased) - no, like I said this stuff is like water - easer for minors to get than tobacco or liquor.
Basically I like the proposition that penalties for dealing, and growing will be higher. There doesn't seem to be any penalty for possesion (here) as is stands now so it can't really change for the worse. In some cases I have seen people drop out of school, have suck jobs, etc all before the age at which they might even have the remote possibility of understanding anythign about the world - due primarily to the good ol reefer. In other cases people do it for a couple years smarten up and start doing better in life. I made my choice long ago, but I don't think many people's choices are based soley on the law, and if there exsits such a person - I feel sorry for that person (the end of the world may be coming if there is more than one person ) everyone should be able to make their own choices - legally irrelevant. It would be nice to think that people don't kill/rape/abduct because it's against that law, however, I believe the legal system is fairly reactive as opposed to proactive. The laws exist to punish, not prevent. And that is the underlying problem with any debate regarding the legallity of M-J or ... anything really.
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05-30-2003, 01:36 PM | #22 |
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Marijuana does not lead to smoking crack! Lack of willpower leads to smoking crack. It just so happens that lack of willpower also leads to Marijuana, and it's easier to get pot, so most crack heads have started with it.
Sure, we've all seen a few smart people start smoking a little too much, and decide that they didn't really want to be in school, and drop out and join the Marines. But we've probably also all seen some smart people play too much counterstrike, fail all their classes, and follow the same path. So, tell me, was it marijuana that caused these lives to take a drastic turn? or was it lack of willpower? Maybe we should outlaw video games, too? I have, at one point in my life, smoked copious amounts of gonga, I went through way more than I probably should have, and have now made the decision to refrain.. But the me that is now, does not look down upon the me that was then because of my decision to imbibe in a smokey pastime! I never felt the need or desire to smoke crack, or move into heavier drugs to escape life. If we are going to have this conversation as to weather Marijuana should be legalized, than shouldn't we have this same conversation about cigarettes? about alcohol? both of those are just as bad as pot, worse even, but legalized, and socially acceptable(because of the legalization). There are way more alcohol related crimes than marijuana related crimes. The worse that happens when you get high, is you sit on your couch and forget to pay your bills. People get drunk, and they decide to go out and start shooting street signs. Tell me, which of these seem like more risk to society? But my point is not that alcohol is bad, (I drink enough beers that if I said that, I would be a hypocrite) but not having the willpower to control your limits is bad. Right now, the government can control alcohol fairly well, they control the minimum drinking age, and bars can cut someone off if they get too drunk. But there is no control for pot. I remember being in college, and it was much easier getting buying an eighth of weed, than a six pack of beers. If marijuana were to be legalized, there would be controls on it, much like alcohol and cigarettes. There would certainly still be abuse, as with any substance weather legalized or illegal, but the abuse would be kept to a minimum. I have never seen a conclusive study either way that defined what long term damage marijuana has on your brain, if any, but I do know several people who grew up in the hippy era, and are now in their 50's who have been smoking a bowl every day for their entire lives. These are some of the most sharp, and interesting people I know. So, In conclusion, marijuana is a personal choice, and those that can partake responsibly, have my blessing. And if your worried about potheads ruining your life, worry more about alcoholics, for it's related to way more crimes than pot.
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05-30-2003, 03:24 PM | #23 | ||||
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I think you really need another option on that poll. I picked the first one because it's closest to the truth, but I think virtually all of the people who've clicked it (>40% of the total votes as of me writing this) would fit into the category of "Smoke it, enjoy it, not addicted to it" - as opposed to the "can't live without it" that your current option has.
It's all the little things like this, and there are many other examples littered through the rest of this thread, of the mass brainwashing that the US government has done and still continues to do on the topic of marijuana. I think from my statements so far everyone already has gotten the (true) impression that I am 100% pro-legalization. What that article is refering to is actually NOT legalization, it is decriminilization - pot will still be illigal however there will be no criminal record of minor possesion charges, just a fine. As for all the arguements against it throughout this thread, let me try and dispell a few of them. First, let me say that I am very concerned with my own health, even though I am a pot-smoker. I have done a significant amount of research on the subject, and have read every study about pot and it's effects that I've found. Unfortunately I haven't saved them all, but I will provide links where I can to back up my facts/opinions. First, I suggest you all read this: http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/c.../summary-e.pdf It is a summary of a report from a special committee of the Canadian senate that was tasked with researching into the subject of illegal drugs. It contains a lot of good information, and as it comes from the government I believe if anything it is biased towards being anti-drug. 1. The myth that pot is a "gateway drug". The report linked above states that: Quote:
Is simply an example of US brainwashing at work - there is NO logic at all behind that statement. I could just as easily say that virtually all of those who smoke crack today started with alcohol, or even started with learning to talk or anything else. Both of my examples, as well as the original quote, are completely meaningless. The first question from that same post: How many of those who smoke marijuana todday will smoke crack in a year? is EXACTLY the question at hand. Obviously if pot IS a gateway to crack, then a large majority of pot users WILL smoke crack in a year, and this is simply not true. 2. (to quote airspirit): pot makes you dumb if you smoke too much of it Again to quote from the report above: Quote:
Note: I make no claim that SMOKING pot won't cause lung-cancer. Inhallation of smoke is not good for your lungs, however THC (the active ingredient in pot) is not related to this. Eating pot (mmmm...., special brownies) is another widely known way to "get high", and will not cause any problems with your lungs. 3. (to quote bb2k): Drugs will cause people to do many, many things that will affect other people Getting good at quoteing that report... Quote:
If you think you can come up with better arguements to prove that pot is "bad", go ahead - but do some research first and bring proof with you. Let me end with one more quote, one of my favorites from that article. Quote:
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06-01-2003, 09:33 AM | #24 |
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i was smoking way to much before( about 1once to 2once per week) ,i was growing it way to much before(i had beetween 100 to 150 plant in my basement"my personnal little sea of green") ,but i decided to quit smoking a year and a half ago cuz it was taking to much place in my life now i am dad and i intend on teaching my kid that smoking ganga aint bad it abusing it that is bad actualy in my familly about everybody smoke tha weed except my mom some of them are lawyer some of the are woodworker etc..., but nobody ever did anything wrong ,now the goverment(canada that is) is starting to wake up to the fact that there is nothing wrong in smoking a little blunt here and there and personnaly i have seen more aggressivness from people against it then from the people for it so i guess to them i say light a big one and let the power of the herb open up your mind you will see it is therapeutic
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06-01-2003, 09:38 AM | #25 | |
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