Dual DDC-Case

Jag · 10-21-2005, 05:03 AM

Well it's an attempt to put two Laing's together in serial.
The whole process is described in a German Forum (www.kaltmacher.de).

jaydee · 10-21-2005, 02:16 PM

Don't fully understand the point of it. Those pumps are like $75-$80 a piece. Why not just buy 1 pump of equal performance (and size) of the two combined for $80?

Kemist · 10-21-2005, 04:03 PM

What pump is comparable for the price? That top isnt modded, so this post is somewhat moot, but 2 1/2" modded ddc's in series is a great setup: Low overall heat dump, high head ~26-24ft iirc, good overall flow ~190gph, and quiet.

Closest thing is an iwaki z and those are 180$ not including a relay ki. An md-20 is also nice but even more expensive.

jaydee · 10-21-2005, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemist

What pump is comparable for the price? That top isnt modded, so this post is somewhat moot, but 2 1/2" modded ddc's in series is a great setup: Low overall heat dump, high head ~26-24ft iirc, good overall flow ~190gph, and quiet.

Closest thing is an iwaki z and those are 180$ not including a relay ki. An md-20 is also nice but even more expensive.

I disagree. The temp difference between two DDC's and one Danger Den D5 will be hardly worth twice as much. You are talking less than a C difference if I read Cathars posts on the subject correctly. Let's see some REAL numbers that this duel config is actually worth it?

Kemist · 10-21-2005, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydee

I disagree. The temp difference between two DDC's and one Danger Den D5 will be hardly worth twice as much. You are talking less than a C difference if I read Cathars posts on the subject correctly. Let's see some REAL numbers that this duel config is actually worth it?

Fair enough, then one 1/2 modded ddc is better than a D5 http://systemcooling.com/mcp350_mod-06.html
ddc beats a D4 there. Even though its a D4 its still pretty comparable to the D5. D5 has slightly higher head/flow so might be slightly ahead of the ddc with that system, but the ddc still has lower heat dump and is quieter. Also with a more restrictive higher performance system (storm instead of rbx, gpu block included) the ddc should pull ahead due to higher head.

For the hardcore cooling freaks though, the ones who really want that last degree, two of these pumps in series (with 1/2" mod) is a good deal and is comparable to the rd-20/md-20z

jaydee · 10-21-2005, 08:50 PM

Read Cathars post here: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...5&page=1&pp=25

Note the very small increase in performance.

Kemist · 10-21-2005, 09:18 PM

Ive read that before, i understand what you are saying, regardless a single 1/2" modded ddc is better than a D5. And despite the small difference in temp 2 1/2" modded ddcs are a (relatively) good value if youre looking for highest performance. Two would have similar heat dump to a D5 but much, much higher head. Also, the results are using older blocks, cpu's etc. Newer blocks with newer hotter procs, and newer better rads, would produce a larger delta, a loop with multiple blocks would as well. I agree with you on the value front (on a single block loop) one pump is sufficient.

Bloody_Sorcerer · 10-21-2005, 09:29 PM

or, for that same price, why not get dual 50zs at 13.8 volts and have pretty much the best thing possible?

jaydee · 10-21-2005, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemist

Ive read that before, i understand what you are saying, regardless a single 1/2" modded ddc is better than a D5. And despite the small difference in temp 2 1/2" modded ddcs are a (relatively) good value if youre looking for highest performance. Two would have similar heat dump to a D5 but much, much higher head. Also, the results are using older blocks, cpu's etc. Newer blocks with newer hotter procs, and newer better rads, would produce a larger delta, a loop with multiple blocks would as well. I agree with you on the value front (on a single block loop) one pump is sufficient.

Block count is not to relevant. Adding 2 more blocks to the loop isn't going to change things much. If you have 3GPM with 1 block, 2GPM with 2 blocks and 1GPM with 3 blocks your temp difference will only be about 1-3C. And thats assuming 1GPM loss per block which shouldn't be the case. So you are looking at about a 1-4C warmer running comp with sticking with one $75 pump as opposed to spending $150 for 2 DDC's and whatever the mod cost. 3-4C is nothing in reality. IMO certainly not worth the extra cost.

Anyway I am much more practical than many enthusiests. Nothing wrong with hooking those pumps up in series and the guy looks to have done a pretty good job doing it. Would prefer Delrin though for a production unit.

Kemist · 10-21-2005, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloody_Sorcerer

or, for that same price, why not get dual 50zs at 13.8 volts and have pretty much the best thing possible?

modded ddc's at 13.8 would beat dual 50z's as well. They have higher head, and modded have similar flow to 50zs

modded ddc beating 50z with low restriction system (would beat it more with high restriction):
http://systemcooling.com/mcp350_mod-05.html

unmodded head height: http://www.systemcooling.com/images/...image18big.jpg

modded head height:
http://www.systemcooling.com/images/...image10big.gif

ddc @ 13.5:
http://www.lainginc.com/DDC_Series.htm

ricecrispi · 10-21-2005, 10:43 PM

The idea of the systemcooling mod is to improve performance by 1-2 degree C by a simple $5 mod. DDC lacks flow rate and the mod on the DDC would give it extra flow rate. This gives it the same performance as a DD5 or 150z. DDC biggest asset is low noise for performance. Mod makes it untouchable in that department.

With the mod you would get the same performance as that dual DDC setup but it cost extra $80 and cost of that plexitop= $40 (estimate). There is a single pump plexitop with the the straight outlet. Looks better than the $5 mod and you get the same performance.

BTW. Most people don't have setups restrictive enough to benefit from running at 13.5 V's or dual pump setups.

Ls7corvete · 10-22-2005, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemist

Fair enough, then one 1/2 modded ddc is better than a D5 http://systemcooling.com/mcp350_mod-06.html
ddc beats a D4 there. Even though its a D4 its still pretty comparable to the D5. D5 has slightly higher head/flow so might be slightly ahead of the ddc with that system, but the ddc still has lower heat dump and is quieter. Also with a more restrictive higher performance system (storm instead of rbx, gpu block included) the ddc should pull ahead due to higher head.

For the hardcore cooling freaks though, the ones who really want that last degree, two of these pumps in series (with 1/2" mod) is a good deal and is comparable to the rd-20/md-20z

I agree with you on this being a waste of money but I think the number of blocks is very relavent.

As you know the perfomance curve is not linear so decreases in flow can have much larger effects than increasing.

ie, you see little difference from adding pumps but a big diff from adding restrictions. Lots of people going SLI these days.

Of coarse when you got 3-4 processing units dumping heat the low heat output of these pumps doesnt make seem so important anymore.

Jag · 10-22-2005, 06:01 AM

[

jaydee · 10-22-2005, 10:22 AM

Chart jacked from http://www.cooling-masters.com/articles-33-9.html

BillA · 10-22-2005, 01:47 PM

has anyone run a high-end WCing system with both a D5 and a DDC ?
try it with an Apex kit
report back please

now; put the DDCs in series, then in parallel
Lee's mod is the best bet

bobo5195 · 10-22-2005, 02:02 PM

Having multipul impellers on a pump is a great way to increase performance and is very common (thought its normally pumps on the same axle). Not that i know much about specific wc stuff but those pumps look pretty pathetic anyway. Some one should produce an ultra restrictive wb to go along with it.

ricecrispi · 10-22-2005, 07:17 PM

Not eveyone has an extra DDC laying around to put in series. If they did i'd be very very jealous.

I seriously doubt you need some stronger than a the $5 mod DDC mod. Gives you same performance of DD5 if not better. I beat it's a lot better on the ears.

flatline · 10-22-2005, 11:48 PM

ppl still blinging up dcc's hu?

"bigger barbs do not equate to more flow - just bigger barbs" unregistered

BillA · 10-23-2005, 10:04 AM

context ?
I have said almost everything at one time or another, where is that snippet from ?

discussing performance is "blinging" ?
pick a better word

flatline · 10-23-2005, 12:35 PM

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...7&page=9&pp=25

my post #213
your post #214

:shrug:

BillA · 10-23-2005, 12:40 PM

suggest reading more carefully:
1/2" barbs in an Alphacool top

get it now ?

flatline · 10-23-2005, 12:47 PM

"if lang offerd a new top with 1/2 barbs" is lang alfa cool? it was suposed to be amuseing i can only asume your STILL 2 grumpy to joke with

jaydee · 10-23-2005, 12:56 PM

LOL, well even if they put 1/2" barbs on the DDC it wouldn't do any good unless they modded it like shown above. I would venture to guess that will not happen.

ricecrispi · 10-24-2005, 03:17 AM

bigger barbs do not equate to more flow - just bigger barbs

Is that from a chinese fortune cookie?

nigelyuen · 10-24-2005, 04:00 AM

it will be out in 2-3 weeks
cant wait to get one, already got dual DDC ready

10-21-2005, 05:03 AM	#1
Jag Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 179	Dual DDC-Case Well it's an attempt to put two Laing's together in serial. The whole process is described in a German Forum (www.kaltmacher.de).

10-22-2005, 11:48 PM	#18
flatline Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: uk Posts: 109	ppl still blinging up dcc's hu? "bigger barbs do not equate to more flow - just bigger barbs" unregistered __________________ "<pH> I'll stab you in the genitals with a rusty shank if you touch my computer stuff" "we are only 'mean' to the persistently ignorant, lazy, and anyone who questions us" BillA

10-23-2005, 12:35 PM	#20
flatline Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: uk Posts: 109	http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...7&page=9&pp=25 my post #213 your post #214 :shrug: __________________ "<pH> I'll stab you in the genitals with a rusty shank if you touch my computer stuff" "we are only 'mean' to the persistently ignorant, lazy, and anyone who questions us" BillA

10-23-2005, 12:47 PM	#22
flatline Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: uk Posts: 109	"if lang offerd a new top with 1/2 barbs" is lang alfa cool? it was suposed to be amuseing i can only asume your STILL 2 grumpy to joke with __________________ "<pH> I'll stab you in the genitals with a rusty shank if you touch my computer stuff" "we are only 'mean' to the persistently ignorant, lazy, and anyone who questions us" BillA

10-24-2005, 04:00 AM	#25
nigelyuen Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: HONG KONG Posts: 56	it will be out in 2-3 weeks cant wait to get one, already got dual DDC ready __________________ http://ny.no-ip.com/wtbanner.png

10-21-2005, 02:16 PM	#2
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Don't fully understand the point of it. Those pumps are like $75-$80 a piece. Why not just buy 1 pump of equal performance (and size) of the two combined for $80?

10-21-2005, 04:03 PM	#3
Kemist Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 14	What pump is comparable for the price? That top isnt modded, so this post is somewhat moot, but 2 1/2" modded ddc's in series is a great setup: Low overall heat dump, high head ~26-24ft iirc, good overall flow ~190gph, and quiet. Closest thing is an iwaki z and those are 180$ not including a relay ki. An md-20 is also nice but even more expensive.

10-21-2005, 08:50 PM	#6
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Read Cathars post here: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...5&page=1&pp=25 Note the very small increase in performance.

10-21-2005, 09:18 PM	#7
Kemist Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 14	Ive read that before, i understand what you are saying, regardless a single 1/2" modded ddc is better than a D5. And despite the small difference in temp 2 1/2" modded ddcs are a (relatively) good value if youre looking for highest performance. Two would have similar heat dump to a D5 but much, much higher head. Also, the results are using older blocks, cpu's etc. Newer blocks with newer hotter procs, and newer better rads, would produce a larger delta, a loop with multiple blocks would as well. I agree with you on the value front (on a single block loop) one pump is sufficient.

10-21-2005, 09:29 PM	#8
Bloody_Sorcerer Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Near frozenCPU Posts: 55	or, for that same price, why not get dual 50zs at 13.8 volts and have pretty much the best thing possible?

10-21-2005, 10:43 PM	#11
ricecrispi Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: california Posts: 429	The idea of the systemcooling mod is to improve performance by 1-2 degree C by a simple $5 mod. DDC lacks flow rate and the mod on the DDC would give it extra flow rate. This gives it the same performance as a DD5 or 150z. DDC biggest asset is low noise for performance. Mod makes it untouchable in that department. With the mod you would get the same performance as that dual DDC setup but it cost extra $80 and cost of that plexitop= $40 (estimate). There is a single pump plexitop with the the straight outlet. Looks better than the $5 mod and you get the same performance. BTW. Most people don't have setups restrictive enough to benefit from running at 13.5 V's or dual pump setups.

10-22-2005, 06:01 AM	#13
Jag Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 179	[

10-22-2005, 01:47 PM	#15
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	has anyone run a high-end WCing system with both a D5 and a DDC ? try it with an Apex kit report back please now; put the DDCs in series, then in parallel Lee's mod is the best bet

10-22-2005, 02:02 PM	#16
bobo5195 Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: uk Posts: 400	Having multipul impellers on a pump is a great way to increase performance and is very common (thought its normally pumps on the same axle). Not that i know much about specific wc stuff but those pumps look pretty pathetic anyway. Some one should produce an ultra restrictive wb to go along with it.

10-22-2005, 07:17 PM	#17
ricecrispi Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: california Posts: 429	Not eveyone has an extra DDC laying around to put in series. If they did i'd be very very jealous. I seriously doubt you need some stronger than a the $5 mod DDC mod. Gives you same performance of DD5 if not better. I beat it's a lot better on the ears.

10-23-2005, 10:04 AM	#19
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	context ? I have said almost everything at one time or another, where is that snippet from ? discussing performance is "blinging" ? pick a better word

10-23-2005, 12:40 PM	#21
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	suggest reading more carefully: 1/2" barbs in an Alphacool top get it now ?

10-23-2005, 12:56 PM	#23
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	LOL, well even if they put 1/2" barbs on the DDC it wouldn't do any good unless they modded it like shown above. I would venture to guess that will not happen.

10-24-2005, 03:17 AM	#24
ricecrispi Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: california Posts: 429	bigger barbs do not equate to more flow - just bigger barbs Is that from a chinese fortune cookie?

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