Dual Blower

BrianW · 08-05-2003, 10:02 PM

Hello,

I am interested in getting a hold of one of these dual blowers I see so much these days. The only one I have seen with dimensions was 13X6X6". I need one about 8-10X4-6X4-6".

If anyone could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

BTW: looking for a 12v motor in the dual blower.

Thanks,

BrianW

Cathar · 08-06-2003, 12:57 AM

Go to a car radiator repair workshop. Ask to look in their catalog of blowers for cars. Find the blower of the size that you want, then go to a wreckers and pull it out of a car. Alternately you could probably get them to order it new for you, but it won't be cheap.

BrianW · 08-06-2003, 01:23 AM

Thanks Cathar.

BrianW · 08-06-2003, 03:54 PM

Well I called around, and no parts store has a catalogue that lists the size of the blower... Any other suggestions?

BrianW

Blackeagle · 08-06-2003, 05:49 PM

Next place I'd try would be a auto junkyard. See what they've pulled out.

BrianW · 08-06-2003, 08:22 PM

Well I googled a bit today, and found a source for dual cage blowers, only problem is that they are AC.

http://www.kooltronic.com/b-blower/kbb30-30/b3030.htm

Do you see any pitfalls qith going with AC? Won't it freak out my monitor? I have seen house fans mess up monitors when they are too close? Would I still be able to vary the speed of an AC motor?

Still googl'n

Thanks,

BrianW

CoolROD · 08-06-2003, 08:40 PM

If there is a grounded metal shield (ie your case) between the induction motor and your monitor then there will be little or no EMI interferrance

BrianW · 08-06-2003, 08:45 PM

And if I want to throttle the RPM's, does it have to be a multi-phased motor?

Thanks,

BrianW

BrianW · 08-06-2003, 09:09 PM

Found this interesting piece of equipment. Perfect if you want an external heat exchanger.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2426165222

BrianW

CoolROD · 08-06-2003, 09:20 PM

Neat find on the Aux. heat unit...The motor will probably be a series-wound "universal" motor or, more likely, an induction motor. Both will respond -to some extent- to clipped waveforms and PWM control. Be advised that there will be little torque at lower RPMs, unlike a DC motor, so the rpms and fan output will drop quickly as you clip the waveform. Watch the temps if you try to run it for extended periods at low RPMs b/c it may not cool itself.

Can you put a DC motor on it?

CoolROD · 08-06-2003, 09:21 PM

Multi-phased would be a real plus!

CoolROD · 08-06-2003, 09:25 PM

That ebay find reminds me of a possible great source for blowers / radiators. A lot of fork lifts, lift trucks, etc. have cab heaters similar to what you linked to. Most are 12V and appropriately sized and packaged for "Common" w/c systems. Might be worth a try. There are many fork lift salvage places / repair shops / junk yards!

BrianW · 08-06-2003, 09:45 PM

They do offer other products with DC motors, so I emailed them and asked if they could supply me with a dual blower in a similiar size rated for 12vdc, and with a low medium high wire input.

BTW: Can you power that aux unit with 12v?

BrianW

CoolROD · 08-06-2003, 09:59 PM

Heck Yeah! And if you have a 12 V supply that is a little high -even better! Don't be afraid to series a couple of power supplies, either! Put in a 3-terminal regulator and you have a completely variable power supply. The LM338T I mentioned above will do 1.2-32 VDC @ 5 Amp, max. The max VDC output from the device will be about a volt lower than what you put in...let me know what you get / how this goes.

BrianW · 08-06-2003, 10:45 PM

Is this what you are talking about?

http://electronickits.com/kit/complete/powe/ck402.htm

Would it be possible to power this with mains? What would be my theoretical max dc output?

Thanks,

BrianW

CoolROD · 08-06-2003, 11:20 PM

Sure, you could use that -It is a pretty neat (and Cheap) way to connect the voltage regulator, capacitors, potentiometer, resister, and mabye a diode. That is actually a little overkill, but neat and the other parts are included. If you put 12V in you will get an efficient and clean variable output of 1.5-10 volts. To get the full 12 Volts you could bypass this device with a switch (and that would also be more efficient if you need to run at this voltage). If you can come up with 24 Volts input you will get an efficient and clean variable output of 1.5-22 volts., etc.

You do not have to have all of those components -they are more for an electrically clean output signal, but you are just running a motor. We also do not neet the additional bridge rectifier they have included to allow you to input AC voltage. That is the reason for the additional voltage drop that we cannot use for output. Usually about 0.7 Volts loss across each silicon diode.

You would need a potentiometer, usually about 5K ohm, and a free-wheeling diode can be a good idea... Your link shows a circuit -but I can post a simpler circuit tomorrow. Still -this is pretty cheap and neat for what you get. And it comes with a $1 heat sink! If I had to buy all of those components new, I would pay that much or more -and you get the PCB board.

CoolROD · 08-06-2003, 11:26 PM

NO -you cannot power this with mains. You could if you used a small transformer though -and that would solve a lot of problems. You probably have an old alarm clock or something...We will spec one tomorrow...going to bed

Check the power requirements of your motor to make sure we are within range with the 5 Amps -I would hope so...

BrianW · 08-06-2003, 11:54 PM

Hehe, we do not even know what motor we are using yet. If that company does not have that blower in 12VDC, I will have to search some junkyards to find out which one will fit.

BrianW

CoolROD · 08-07-2003, 08:58 PM

I was sketching up something here to post WRT the 3-terminal regulator. All you need is a 5k pot., a 220 Ohm Resistor, one or more caps, and I might use a couple diodes to protect this thing from back emf from the motors I will be controlling. It would be really simpler (and probably nicer) to buy the board you are looking at. Just let me know about the motor or if you are interested later...

airspirit · 08-10-2003, 01:10 PM

In order to slow an AC fan correctly without buzz and other issues is to use a Variac. Good luck finding a decent one under $50.

08-05-2003, 10:02 PM	#1
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	Dual Blower Hello, I am interested in getting a hold of one of these dual blowers I see so much these days. The only one I have seen with dimensions was 13X6X6". I need one about 8-10X4-6X4-6". If anyone could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. BTW: looking for a 12v motor in the dual blower. Thanks, BrianW __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-06-2003, 01:23 AM	#3
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	Thanks Cathar. __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-06-2003, 03:54 PM	#4
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	Well I called around, and no parts store has a catalogue that lists the size of the blower... Any other suggestions? BrianW __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-06-2003, 08:22 PM	#6
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	Well I googled a bit today, and found a source for dual cage blowers, only problem is that they are AC. http://www.kooltronic.com/b-blower/kbb30-30/b3030.htm Do you see any pitfalls qith going with AC? Won't it freak out my monitor? I have seen house fans mess up monitors when they are too close? Would I still be able to vary the speed of an AC motor? Still googl'n Thanks, BrianW __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-06-2003, 08:40 PM	#7
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	If there is a grounded metal shield (ie your case) between the induction motor and your monitor then there will be little or no EMI interferrance __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-06-2003, 12:57 AM	#2
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	Go to a car radiator repair workshop. Ask to look in their catalog of blowers for cars. Find the blower of the size that you want, then go to a wreckers and pull it out of a car. Alternately you could probably get them to order it new for you, but it won't be cheap.

08-06-2003, 05:49 PM	#5
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Next place I'd try would be a auto junkyard. See what they've pulled out.

08-06-2003, 08:45 PM	#8
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	And if I want to throttle the RPM's, does it have to be a multi-phased motor? Thanks, BrianW __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-06-2003, 09:09 PM	#9
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	Found this interesting piece of equipment. Perfect if you want an external heat exchanger. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2426165222 BrianW __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-06-2003, 09:20 PM	#10
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	Neat find on the Aux. heat unit...The motor will probably be a series-wound "universal" motor or, more likely, an induction motor. Both will respond -to some extent- to clipped waveforms and PWM control. Be advised that there will be little torque at lower RPMs, unlike a DC motor, so the rpms and fan output will drop quickly as you clip the waveform. Watch the temps if you try to run it for extended periods at low RPMs b/c it may not cool itself. Can you put a DC motor on it? __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-06-2003, 09:21 PM	#11
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	Multi-phased would be a real plus! __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-06-2003, 09:25 PM	#12
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	That ebay find reminds me of a possible great source for blowers / radiators. A lot of fork lifts, lift trucks, etc. have cab heaters similar to what you linked to. Most are 12V and appropriately sized and packaged for "Common" w/c systems. Might be worth a try. There are many fork lift salvage places / repair shops / junk yards! __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None. Last edited by CoolROD; 08-07-2003 at 11:15 AM.

08-06-2003, 09:45 PM	#13
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	They do offer other products with DC motors, so I emailed them and asked if they could supply me with a dual blower in a similiar size rated for 12vdc, and with a low medium high wire input. BTW: Can you power that aux unit with 12v? BrianW __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-06-2003, 09:59 PM	#14
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	Heck Yeah! And if you have a 12 V supply that is a little high -even better! Don't be afraid to series a couple of power supplies, either! Put in a 3-terminal regulator and you have a completely variable power supply. The LM338T I mentioned above will do 1.2-32 VDC @ 5 Amp, max. The max VDC output from the device will be about a volt lower than what you put in...let me know what you get / how this goes. __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-06-2003, 10:45 PM	#15
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	Is this what you are talking about? http://electronickits.com/kit/complete/powe/ck402.htm Would it be possible to power this with mains? What would be my theoretical max dc output? Thanks, BrianW __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-06-2003, 11:20 PM	#16
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	Sure, you could use that -It is a pretty neat (and Cheap) way to connect the voltage regulator, capacitors, potentiometer, resister, and mabye a diode. That is actually a little overkill, but neat and the other parts are included. If you put 12V in you will get an efficient and clean variable output of 1.5-10 volts. To get the full 12 Volts you could bypass this device with a switch (and that would also be more efficient if you need to run at this voltage). If you can come up with 24 Volts input you will get an efficient and clean variable output of 1.5-22 volts., etc. You do not have to have all of those components -they are more for an electrically clean output signal, but you are just running a motor. We also do not neet the additional bridge rectifier they have included to allow you to input AC voltage. That is the reason for the additional voltage drop that we cannot use for output. Usually about 0.7 Volts loss across each silicon diode. You would need a potentiometer, usually about 5K ohm, and a free-wheeling diode can be a good idea... Your link shows a circuit -but I can post a simpler circuit tomorrow. Still -this is pretty cheap and neat for what you get. And it comes with a $1 heat sink! If I had to buy all of those components new, I would pay that much or more -and you get the PCB board. __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-06-2003, 11:26 PM	#17
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	NO -you cannot power this with mains. You could if you used a small transformer though -and that would solve a lot of problems. You probably have an old alarm clock or something...We will spec one tomorrow...going to bed Check the power requirements of your motor to make sure we are within range with the 5 Amps -I would hope so... __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-06-2003, 11:54 PM	#18
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	Hehe, we do not even know what motor we are using yet. If that company does not have that blower in 12VDC, I will have to search some junkyards to find out which one will fit. BrianW __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-07-2003, 08:58 PM	#19
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	I was sketching up something here to post WRT the 3-terminal regulator. All you need is a 5k pot., a 220 Ohm Resistor, one or more caps, and I might use a couple diodes to protect this thing from back emf from the motors I will be controlling. It would be really simpler (and probably nicer) to buy the board you are looking at. Just let me know about the motor or if you are interested later... __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-10-2003, 01:10 PM	#20
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	In order to slow an AC fan correctly without buzz and other issues is to use a Variac. Good luck finding a decent one under $50. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

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