The Dream System: Need Help!

[Digitalcop]

First of all, thanks for taking a look. I am building a new system and am trying to decide on the water cooling components. I am not new to watercooling and the concepts since I have had two water cooled systems in the past, but the last one I built was about four years ago and there are a lot more offerings out there these days.

Main considerations:
Cooling is important and noise is to some extent. My current intent is to purchase THIS CASE from frozencpu.com because I like the idea of a "hidden" all-internal cooling system. The case is very large so I have room to play with cooling options.

The Components List:
I plan to equip the chassis with an Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe nForce4 SLI mobo, an AMD 64 FX-60 processor, (2) Asus 7800GTX GeForce 7800 GTX PCI Express 256MB DDR3 video cards, (2)Corsair TWINX2048-3500LLPRO 2GB Kit DDR433 XMS3500 ProSeries, and probably just an add-on sound card and TV Tuner card (if room permits). To supply the juice to this rig, I have opted for the Enermax ELT620AWT Liberty 620W.

The components I would like to water cool:
-(1) CPU, (2) GPUs and maybe the RAM (though I don't know if I really need to worry about that.

Decision Making:
The case that I plan to get comes with a Black Ice Xtreme Triple 120mm Fan Radiator but I am left with making some decisions about the blocks, diameter of the tubing, pump(s), and whether or not I will include a reservoir. I had always used reservoirs previously but have read the posts that encourage the use of a T line instead.

Pump
I was wondering what thoughts were on the Asetek WaterChill Xtreme Integrated Pump / Reservoir. I like the fact that it is software-controlled. I know that the newer Swiftech and DD pumps come with rehostats, but because of where my case will be located, I would rather have the option to control the speed of fan(s) and pump(s) by either software or exterior-mounted switch / knob configurations. If anyone has suggestions, I would really appreciate it.

My other thought was to run twin pumps for redundancy, suggestions please.

Blocks, CPU/VGU
I am comfortable with the DD and Swiftech offerings in this area.

Intended Use of System:
This system will be used for gaming and video editing / rendering applicaitons, as well as graphic design. I plan to overclock to some extent for gaming purposes, but most of the time the speeds and voltages will be running at MFG spec.

Diameter of Tubing:
I would love to use 1/2", but am also open to 3/8" since it requires less space (diameter) for curves.

Summary:
Though I may upgrade CPU / RAM at some point, the video cards will probably stay in place. I am looking to build a low-maintenance system that is reasonably quiet (no vacuum cleaner-level noise) and will last me for about 5 years. With respect to the cooling components, it is important to purchase quality products that offer reliability. Any thoughts that you experts could offer would be greatly appreaciated.

Thanks

[BGP Spook]

A fan over the memory should be plenty for you.

The best pumps reliability wise are by Eheim. Not sure how quiet they are, but they are very reliable. If sound is a major concern then you may want to us one of the PA120.x since they perform very well with low power (read quiet) fans.

Hmm, with GPU blocks I have no experience.(will leave this to the more informed)
CPU blocks I don't have enough experience either.(again will leave for the more informed)

If you don't want to mess with it at all then you will likely want a res.
If only to avoid refilling it.
T-lines will perform a little better, are cheaper, and are much smaller, though. To each his own.

Edit: If you have the room and settle on componets that support it then I would go for the 1/2'' rather than the 3/8''

[ricecrispi]

Get opteron 170-175 dual core instead of fx-60. OC the opteron to 2.6-2.7 ghz and save about $500- $600. You can do this on stock voltage and WCing with ease.

Get Power & Cooling psu or FSP psu fx600/fx700 series. The Liberty line is decent series. PC Turbo PSU ar rock solid but slighty noisy and $$$

Ditch the astek pump. DDC or mcp 655/DD5 will do the job.
DDC is very quiet and gives off little heat so no need for software control.
Since you have $$ you can buy 2x DDC and maybe the DDC plexi topplate. Someone had a post on it, wasserkool maybe?

Whats the big deal with SLI. Never understood it. Approx 20% gains max for 2x cost. Get a single 7800 gtx 512mb or 1900xt and save yourself from the complicated loops.

[ricecrispi]

for gpu WB mcw-60

for CPU WB cooltechnica mp-05 or swiftech storm

pump 2x DDCs

3/8" tubing for rad and pumps and 1/2" for blocks

T-line is best.

[ElMoIsEviL]

Radeon 1900XT for sure. Performs on par with two 7800GTX 256MB cards while supporting more 3D features. Also ATi's Catalyst drivers are better, more feature packed and more stable (says Microsoft) for Windows then any other driver set.

Also.. you can do HDR with MSAA... you cannot do this with the inferior implementation of HDR in the 7800GTX series.

I trust Enermax so that choice is best. PC Power & Cooling look nice and perform VERY well.. but I've never owned one... so I don't know how reliable they are. I have some Enermax Power Supplies... more specifically there 450Watt Whisper model from a few years back (like 2001 prolly) still running. In fact one is powering my Server, which is a Dual Core Athlon64 4400+ with 3.6TB worth of disk space (12 x 300GB Seagate 7200.9 SATA drives) in fact I should tell you the rest of the specs just so you know how much power this system draws... it's got an MSI NX6600GT 128MB video card, SB Audigy2 (because it sometimes is used as a jukebox) two Promise FastTrack SX4100 4-port SATA cards, Asus A8N-SLI Premium board and a Pioneer DVR-109 DVDR+/- burner.. So yeah quite the power supplies considering it runs it 24/7 without any power issues at all.

Like I said I've heard many great things about PC Power & Cooling... but for the price and from personal experience I have to recommend Enermax.

[ricecrispi]

Noisetaker is a good series but the Liberty seems to have a few problems. One its modular. I given up on modular psus. I hear problems on forums mainly with the 620 watt model not working or dying after a few months.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustRa...size=100&Page=

I would recommend noisetaker but not liberty. Silent, stable, and solid. I replaced my old one with SilenX PSU.

[Digitalcop]

3/8" tubing for rad and pumps and 1/2" for blocks

I appreciate everyone's responses. I am looking over the alternate GPU option now. In reference to the tubing size, why would I want to use more than one size tubing in the same system?

Isn't there an inherent advantage of using all of the same size tubing to alleviate restriction and flow problems? I am only basing this question on assumption, so I could be way off base. I figured that things would flow best if all the pipes were the same size.

[BGP Spook]

That is my thinking as well. I am as curious as you are about this.

[ElMoIsEviL]

Originally Posted by Digitalcop

I appreciate everyone's responses. I am looking over the alternate GPU option now. In reference to the tubing size, why would I want to use more than one size tubing in the same system?

Isn't there an inherent advantage of using all of the same size tubing to alleviate restriction and flow problems? I am only basing this question on assumption, so I could be way off base. I figured that things would flow best if all the pipes were the same size.

I preffer 1/2" since I'm using a high flow Swiftech MCW5002-64T waterblock... but benchmarks have shown little to no performance difference between 1/2" and 3/8" with today's restrictive blocks. If you're looking at a high flow block.. then most definatly 1/2".

[Long Haired Git]

Cathar has found that using 7/16ths tubing gives you the flexibility of 3/8" tubing with the same flow rate as 1/2" tubing. Seems stretching it over the barbs eases the flow on entry to the barb and balances the slightly extract restriction over the length of the tubing. Otherwise, go the 3/8" as its only with like 7LPM or more that you'll see any real impact. 1/2" tubing is from the days where we tried to use mega flow rates to get performance out of simplistic blocks.

I'd go the eheim 1048 and revel in the silence. However, MCP350 is a good second choice. Performance difference between MCP350 and 655 is often less than one degree, but the MCP350 is smaller, quieter and draws less power.

If you care not for performance that much, go the Apogee. Its less restrictive and thus you can run a "gentler" and hence less noisy pump. Its also cheaper. If you want that last degree or two, have a dense core (no big IHS) then go the twice-as-much Storm.

Similar for silence and performance, I'd go a QP series or PA series radiators.

T line versus reservoir? Your choice. No real difference. Filling and bleeding are annual activities. If you are going to pimp the rig up, go the reservoir with LEDs etc.

[Digitalcop]

3/8" tubing for rad and pumps and 1/2" for blocks

I am not sure that I interpreted the post that started the most recent discussion about diameters correctly. I thought that Ricecrispi was implying that I should use two different diameters of tubing in the same system (same loop). I didn't understand why someone would want to do that.

Pump Decision Making: Thanks to everyone that has posted their opinions here. I also called FrozenCPU.com and spoke with "Bucky" the designer of the custom watercooled Lian Li case they sell that bears his name.
I explained to him that I was concerned with reliability in the pump because, although it would be fun to build a flashing, blinking, neon, and UV case covered with windows and LED fans, for this build, I am going to keep the case very stock (sleeper) looking externally. Because of where I will be physically housing the case, it will be a pain in the ass to pull it out and crack it open frequently. Therefore, I won't have any visual indication that the WC system is working (except the absence of steam shooting out of the front of the case). In that vein, he suggested that I purchase either the MCP350 or the 655. He said they are extremely reliable and that he currently uses the 655 for a machine in his office and that there is almost no pump noise while it is running wide-open (rheostat controlled).

He added, however, that the 655 doesn't offer any repoting function to the computer for monitoring purposes. Therefore, he recommended that I also get a Thermaltake T-Type Water Temp indicator (LCD Panel that can be mounted on a 5.25 drive bay face).

This raises another question, with room to spare, would I be best-served by using a twin-pump design for redundancy and reliability purposes. I plan to leave the machine running about 90% of the time and don't want to risk it melting-down if the pump takes a crap.

This begs the question: are two pumps advisable and if so, what would be the smartest way to route them? If I routed them next to each other and one failed, would it still allow the water to flow through it to the next which would pick up the slack?

On a side note, I really appreciate the time that Bucky spent on the phone with me discussing the system and he said that he was always available if I had any more questions. I feel very comfortable with FrozenCPU.com now and wanted to give them a thumbs-up for great customer support (and I haven't even purchased anything yet.)

So what do you experts think about the double-pump initiative?

Thanks to all who have replied thus far.

[ricecrispi]

Sorry if i didn't clarify.

Reason I stated using two types of tubing is because
1) 3/8" compression fittings on the triple rad
2) the DDC has 3/8" barbs as well so you need adapters for 3/8" tubing to 1/2" tubing to WBs. IT comes with an adapter

The case is SO BIG I dont think you would have problems with any bends in the loop. Go with 1/2"

The new swifftech series WBs are low restriction so you could use 3/8" tubing in the entire loop.
-------------------------------------------------
AS for two pumps. No need for two pumps or software management.

Use thermal shutoff in BIOS. Its available in most nf4 sli boards so if you cpu goes over 60C the comp shutsdown.

DD5/mcp 655 and possibly DDC can also be slightly modded so you can have mobo or fan controller read the rpms off a fan header.

[Digitalcop]

Reason I stated using two types of tubing is because
1) 3/8" compression fittings on the triple rad
2) the DDC has 3/8" barbs as well so you need adapters for 3/8" tubing to 1/2" tubing to WBs. IT comes with an adapter

Ok, thanks. I get what you were saying now. I actually have the option of barb sizes on the radiator so I could go with 1/2" or 3/8". If the CPU and GPU blocks are already 1/2" and the pump (thinking strongly about the 655) barbs are 1/2", then it makes no sense to me to convert down to 3/8" since space isn't a factor.

Not that I am full of questions or anything, which I am, but I am wondering what everyone's opinion is on motherboards (sorry if it is off-topic for this forum). I had settled on the Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe nForce4 SLI, but am now wondering if I would be better-served with the ASUS A8N-SLI Premium ATX AMD instead. I just read some crappy reviews of the A8N-32 that proported that the mobo was rushed into production before it was ready (NewEgg customer reviews). I am looking to run an AMD X2 chipset and want the mobo to have PCI-E and SATAII. Any suggestions? I have read-up on the Abit, MSI, and Gigabyte, but they all seem to have an equal (though somewhat small) group of dissatisfied customers.