PurpleIce vs RedLine testing... WTF!!! do they CAUSE corrosion?

[Butcher]

I got the deionised from a local hardware store, it was cheap (£2.35/5l - about $3/gal in US terms).
Here it is -

As you see nothing particularly special about it

[DigitalChaos]

Originally posted by Bollocks
Over here we can buy premade coolant ready for car radiators (which u can prolly get in almost any country). Is it worth testing this stuff too, or is that the same as the redline/WW, or is it useless for using in computer systems anyway due to the high concentrations of ethylene glycol and other bits?

actually the glycol is to prevent freezing. this would work but would decrease teh cooling efficiency unless you are doing active cooling.

The redline water wetter or PurpleIce are additives meant for cars to reduce surface tension (better cooling) and reduce corrosion (the most important for computers).

but hey... if these additives are really screwing everything up... then maybe glycol mixtures could be a fall back



BUTCHER-- thanks alot for the deionized water info.. i thought it was only available in science stores!!!

[iceheart]

Allright, now I'm nervous... I'm gonna test WW right away (Don't have any Purple Ice).

[Brad]

ok, so lets write off water wetter and purple ice. Now, what about anti-freeze, or other additives? Which ones will be bad for corrosion too?

[Triton]

Has anyone else tried this yet?

[DigitalChaos]

Originally posted by Brad
ok, so lets write off water wetter and purple ice. Now, what about anti-freeze, or other additives? Which ones will be bad for corrosion too?

not sure.. i would probably just stay away from water, and maybe just find a lightweight oil that is non conductive

WE NEED MORE PEOPLE TO TEST THIS before we all give up on the additives!!

[Joe]

You can get DeIonized water all over. But its useless for computer cooling.

The second you put it in your system it becomes contaminated and just normal tap water for all intents and purposes.

The stuff I used in DH3 has been in the ProMini cooling system for over a year, and there is NO sign of any corrosion anywhere. Redline works well in tests I did also. But it seems to react with silicone hoses. I think it actually gets absolrbed into the silicone. In the WB testing rig I noticed after a few months all the water wetter was out of the coolant and I just had pink hoses.

[Brad]

Joe, thats just the silicone absorbing the red dye, I doubt it would absorb the water wetter entirely

[sunblade]

Hmm, I don't really want water wetter leaching into my silicone hose after I payed so much for them. Perhaps I should use purple ice?

(And DigitalChaos, is it just me, or does the 1/2 strength of ww and purpleice seem to corrode the aluminum faster than the full strength in your pictures?)

[Butcher]

Originally posted by Joe
You can get DeIonized water all over. But its useless for computer cooling.

The second you put it in your system it becomes contaminated and just normal tap water for all intents and purposes.

Um not really as deionised tends to have been distilled so doesn't have all the dissolved crap of tap water. I seem to recall asking and you saying "no don't use tap water", are you now saying do use tap water?

[Joe]

Originally posted by Brad
Joe, thats just the silicone absorbing the red dye, I doubt it would absorb the water wetter entirely

The red isnt a Dye... thats the synthetic oil that makes the Red line water wetter what it is.

[DigitalChaos]

Originally posted by sunblade
(And DigitalChaos, is it just me, or does the 1/2 strength of ww and purpleice seem to corrode the aluminum faster than the full strength in your pictures?)

yes the half strength PurpleIce IS acting faster than the full strength... same with the RedLine... the straight distilled is showing nothing though!!!!

pitting has started in some of the mixtures... i should have an update to the site in a few hours

[Joe]

Originally posted by Butcher


Um not really as deionised tends to have been distilled so doesn't have all the dissolved crap of tap water. I seem to recall asking and you saying "no don't use tap water", are you now saying do use tap water?

Butcher, you know what DeIonized water is??? cause its not just distilled... Distilling is the first phase, its filtered and and processed untill all impurities are out of it. De-ionized is normally called "UltraPure" water.

The inside of your waterblock, lines, pump, fittings all have oxides, mold lubricants, machining oil residue and contaminates.
De-ionized water would be good if you were putting it into a perfectly sterile and clean sealed system. Once you put it into a normal cooling system is picks up so much contamination that it soon becomes no better than distilled water would be. I am just saying use Distilled and water wetter, there is no reason to use De-Ionized water. With water wetter even tap water can be used ( althought I wouldnt use it in my systems).

[DigitalChaos]

hehe... Joe you said deionised water becomes normal tap water when you put it in a system... but the above makes sense

[Butcher]

Yes, I realise that Joe, I use deionised because it was to hand and distilled was not, I didn't really care which of the two I got as the price difference is pretty small. It just looked like you were saying deionised is no better than tap water.

[Joe]

Originally posted by DigitalChaos
hehe... Joe you said deionised water becomes normal tap water when you put it in a system... but the above makes sense

yeh it was a mis type, I meant distilled

[DigitalChaos]

ok i KNOW what the additives are SUPPOSED to do... but how do you explain the tests im doing??? i made the most exact measurements when making the mixes..... i am completely confuse... we need some chemists out there

and even normal aluminum foil turns black after a few hours (even if its in the mix all by itself.. no copper).. so i feel pretty good that i didnt get some weird aluminum pipe.... infact i think i have the same pipe that is on the OCWC test site from the looks of it...

[iceheart]

1 hour and small bubbles are appearing on the aluminium.

[pHaestus]

If I had to guess (and that is all this is is a guess) I would say that in the solutions containing water wetter and purple ice that the aluminum is forming an aluminum hydroxide coating due to the high pH of those additives. This coating I suppose you could call corrosion, but in actuality it is a good thing because it will prevent any long term dissolution of hte aluminum and enhance its resistance to redox reactions with copper (galvanic corrosion). I know water wetter states that it is alkaline; not sure about purple ice. I am a chemist of sorts (environmental chemist), but I would have to know a bit more about the makeup of the organics used in these products to make a really educated guess. My gut instinct is that the red coloring is actually just that; the active ingredients are surfactant and base and both of thsoe are colorless. People have a hard time paying $7 for what looks like bottled water though. Make it red or purple and it seems more reasonably priced.

[iceheart]

Anyoeen else noticed that OCWC has updated the corrosion page now in January?

[DigitalChaos]

iceheart - what aluminum are you using?

pHaestus - THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE INPUT... that may be the answer.... i will have to check the aluminum today to check if there has been pitting or not. (coulda sworn i saw it)
i was reading the TechInfo regarding corrosion about the Redline... and it sounds like you are correct..... now my question is:
DOES THE BLACK FILM REDUCE HEAT TRANSFER? and IS THE ANTI-CORROSION ONLY FOR ALUMINUM? (is it even worth putting in a copper and brass cooling system?)

below is the tech info regarding the corrosion inhibitor of RedLine (i will see if i can find some for PurpleIce)

i think im gonna ask chip why he didn't have any coating on his test!!!

CORROSION PROTECTION
Modern automotive engines now use aluminum for heads, radiators, water pump housings, and nearly all hose fittings. These engines require significantly greater corrosion protection than their cast iron counterparts of the past. Aluminum is such an electroactive metal that it requires an impenetrable corrosion inhibitor film to prevent rapid corrosion. Acid neutralization capability is very important. Coolant which has been left in a cooling system for several years has probably become acidic from the oxidation of the glycol to acids. Also, keeping the glycol concentration in the cooling system below 50% will help stability.

Red Line also provides excellent protection from cavitation erosion in the water pump and cylinder head. Localized boiling in the cylinder head forms vapor bubbles which collapse when they come in contact with cooler liquids. This collapse creates tremendous shock waves which removes the inhibitor film from the aluminum surface and can cause catastrophic erosion of the aluminum if the inhibitor does not reform the film quickly. Another problem created by cavitation erosion is the deposition of the removed aluminum as a salt with poor heat transfer properties in the lower temperature radiator tubes. Red Line prevents this corrosion through effective film formation and smaller vapor bubble formation, which has a less violent collapse. Foam control is equally important since entrained air will cause cavitation erosion due to the collapse of foam bubbles. Red Line provides excellent control of foam with water alone and glycol solutions.

Most coolants additives on the market provide only protection for iron and perhaps moderate protection for aluminum. The milky soluble oil types can actually impede heat transfer by wetting the metal surface with oil and this oil can swell and soften rubber coolant hoses. Table 3 shows the many tests which the Red Line formula will satisfy and how it compares to a standard antifreeze.

[iceheart]

I sanded away a bit of the anodizing of an old 486 hsf and dropped it in... and a lil coil of copper wire I had around here.

Right now there is no visible effect to either metal (except for the bubbles on the aluminium, which aren't rising to the surface like yours were) but the water has started to turn an odd brown color instead of the pink WW color (?!?). I think the jar I used might have been dirty before.

[iceheart]

btw the following line in all that is probably the most interesting:

"Red Line prevents this corrosion through effective film formation and smaller vapor bubble formation"

[iceheart]

On another side note, I had no idea about the dosage for the WW (it was in US units) so I took 1 capful in 8 fl.oz (my container is marked with fl.oz ). Is this too much/little?

[DigitalChaos]

nah... it probably doesnt even matter what ammount... since all of them seem to do something... 1/2 teaspoon = 1/6 oz