Heater core ducting ideas, comments please

Drummahjake · 10-11-2002, 12:52 PM

Ok, I was trying to think of the best way to install a heater core while A) Not using already warm case air, and B) not pushing warm air into the case, so I came up with this idea. Both of my ideas show the heater core on the bottom of the case with a hole in the bottom to draw in cool air, a shroud, 2 and two 120mm fans.
The first picture has two 90 degree PVC elbows employed to duct the warm air from the heater core immeadiatly out of the case. I am a little warry about this because I also want to install a window and I only have a Mid-tower from In-Win. A variation on the first would be to run both fans into one 4" outlet, would that be ok?

The second picture shows a duct after the fans to guide the air into a 'chimney' and out the top of the case. This will clean up the side of the case a lot but also be more difficult to duct the 120s into a 3-4" PVC or metal duct. I thought that since warm air rises this might be more effective? Also it would be possible for another fan on the top of the blowhole to suck the warm air out of the tube. I do not think that would be necessary since there is already two 120s blowing out and up. Thoughts?

I was also wondering if two 120s would be needed on the heater core I am going to use, an 89 nissan sentra, the 'fin' area is 8 1/4"L X 5 1/2" H just slightly shorter than two 120mm fans. Good idea for two, or is one enough?
I posted this in the [H] and didn't get any good responses, maybe the PROs can help me out.

bigben2k · 10-11-2002, 01:01 PM

That second idea doesn't seem practical, just because of the sheer volume of the chimney. A second fan probably wouldn't hurt, but the benefit may not be noticeable.

As for your original idea, it's good. You're right to be concerned about the size of it all though.

You might consider making yourself a square/rectangular duct, and exiting the side. It would make better use of the space in your case.

Drummahjake · 10-11-2002, 01:07 PM

I did get one good suggestion from the [H], to center the heater core and have one elbow out each side so I can still install my window without cutting it up by haveing the one closest to the front out the window side and the second out the other side.
Do you think it would show a noticable benefit to have two 120s @ 80 CFM each or 1 120 @ 100CFM?

Drummahjake · 10-11-2002, 01:44 PM

Come on guys, give me some comments please! I figured the people at ProCooling would be able to help me out more than the people at the [H].

bigben2k · 10-11-2002, 01:48 PM

The problem with fans is this: You want the highest airflow possible, without the noise. Fans in series (push-pull) setup will give you excellent flow. It would be far better to use two fans.

It's kind of funny... I see lots of people use one or two fans, when this is not what I would do.

My setup would be multiple small fans, on both sides, or a squirrel cage fan. The small fans have the advantage of being quieter, and cheaper too! The squirrel cage fan, if you find a good one, will give far better flow, with the lowest noise level.

Since I'm still building my system, I don't have any concrete/usefull info for you.

That's why I'm "The Theoretical Cooler"!

Drummahjake · 10-11-2002, 02:04 PM

So you are saying that instead of having to pulling fans to have a pull and a push fan? I thought that was proven to be inefficient? I could be wrong though.

bigben2k · 10-11-2002, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drummahjake
So you are saying that instead of having to pulling fans to have a pull and a push fan? I thought that was proven to be inefficient? I could be wrong though.

It's not energy efficient, but it will get you the air flow that you need. It does work.

If you look around here, or even the OC article called "Radiator Roundup", by Bill Adams, you'll find that there is a large benefit by having a pressure drop equivalent to 1/4 inch of water. Unfortunately, axial fans don't flow any air at that kind of pressure drop, so what you end up with, is a fan that will push as much air as it can. Your pressure drop will probably be in the order of 1/20 inch water, if even that.

The problem with axial fans is the gap between the impeller, and the housing. To put it more bluntly, you couldn't inflate a ballon with a regular fan.

Having fans in a push-pull configuration helps to alleviate this problem. The flow won't double, and you still won't have 1/4 inch H2O pressure drop, but you will have a better airflow. I'd guesstimate the flow increase to be 20%. You may or may not see your CPU temps drop as a result, so it's up to you.

Drummahjake · 10-12-2002, 03:25 AM

bump

MadDogMe · 10-12-2002, 03:57 AM

You'd have to stretch the meaning, or have a huge multiple heatload to call the air that comes out a rad WARM , it's quite cold from my rad. you'd be better off utilising that airflow for the case(mosfets and capacitors,HD's,CD~ROM's,ect) and adding a 120mm blowhole up top to keep it shifting...

If you put a duct(please do!) you can make 2 120mm's fit nicely, but have the fans apart from the rad, not bolted straight onto it, have the duct between rad and fan. I'd rather have a cuple of 120's@7Volt than multiple 80's or 92's(which I have now

)...

Drummahjake · 10-12-2002, 05:25 PM

Yeah, I think i will scrap the idea of ducting the air out. If I buy two of those new 120mm chrome fans I think it'll run nicely, maybe see what happens if I run them at 7v instead. Thanks for the help guys.

g.l.amour · 10-12-2002, 05:47 PM

talking about fans, if u can , keep an eye on amperage. i took some old fans from a junkyard server. 2 panaflo's; 120 mm, weigh about 0.5 kg each; amperage: 0.6A !!!; my enermax 120's are rated 0.3A. those panaflo's are like jets taking off at 12V, at 7V they generate about the same noise as my enermax's; and at 5V those bad boys don't even want to spin up.

DarkEdge · 10-12-2002, 07:01 PM

I've actually been thinking of ducting my 120mm fan off my rad. It moves around 135cfm. When my cpu is at idle the fan blows cold air. My ambient room is 18c-20c. When my cpu is at full load however it starts getting warm. I have a P4 2.26@2.9. Full load is at 45c.

I honestly wouldn't be able to tell what my system temp is before and after without buying a external thermal probe. My shitty BD7II can't read system temps from its probe. It reports 60c...grrr

Can O' Beans · 10-12-2002, 11:34 PM

This is how I am going to do mine. All 120mm fans The Rad & shroud are obsolete and I've made better

MadDogMe · 10-13-2002, 05:41 AM

That's very...,GREEN!!

.would'nt it be better to have the outlet 120mm fan higher though?, in the case top as a blowhole?...

Tacops · 10-13-2002, 05:52 PM

I would consider putting the rad at the top in the middle of the cd-rom's cage and psu

Then makes a shroud with a push pull config with 2 40mm panaflo or papst fans for xtreme silence and good airflow

i am adding a shroud to my heatercore with this kind of setup in the next few days

Can O' Beans · 10-13-2002, 11:11 PM

Well, in my case, the lower front is the only space my heatercore will fit. Plus, with the exhaust right there, I get good airflo around the motherboard power circuit.

And I can't really put a blowhole in as the top of the case slides off, then you pull the panels UP to remove.

MadDogMe · 10-14-2002, 04:31 AM

You could mount the fan on a plate fitted to the frame at the top, and just have o hole in the cover that slides into place. It's just that you will get warm air forming up there, it'll come from the CD~ROMs for sure...

That must have been a mother to spray the inside of the case!...

10-11-2002, 12:52 PM	#1
Drummahjake Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 12	Heater core ducting ideas, comments please Ok, I was trying to think of the best way to install a heater core while A) Not using already warm case air, and B) not pushing warm air into the case, so I came up with this idea. Both of my ideas show the heater core on the bottom of the case with a hole in the bottom to draw in cool air, a shroud, 2 and two 120mm fans. The first picture has two 90 degree PVC elbows employed to duct the warm air from the heater core immeadiatly out of the case. I am a little warry about this because I also want to install a window and I only have a Mid-tower from In-Win. A variation on the first would be to run both fans into one 4" outlet, would that be ok? The second picture shows a duct after the fans to guide the air into a 'chimney' and out the top of the case. This will clean up the side of the case a lot but also be more difficult to duct the 120s into a 3-4" PVC or metal duct. I thought that since warm air rises this might be more effective? Also it would be possible for another fan on the top of the blowhole to suck the warm air out of the tube. I do not think that would be necessary since there is already two 120s blowing out and up. Thoughts? I was also wondering if two 120s would be needed on the heater core I am going to use, an 89 nissan sentra, the 'fin' area is 8 1/4"L X 5 1/2" H just slightly shorter than two 120mm fans. Good idea for two, or is one enough? I posted this in the [H] and didn't get any good responses, maybe the PROs can help me out.

10-11-2002, 01:01 PM	#2
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	That second idea doesn't seem practical, just because of the sheer volume of the chimney. A second fan probably wouldn't hurt, but the benefit may not be noticeable. As for your original idea, it's good. You're right to be concerned about the size of it all though. You might consider making yourself a square/rectangular duct, and exiting the side. It would make better use of the space in your case. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-11-2002, 01:48 PM	#5
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	The problem with fans is this: You want the highest airflow possible, without the noise. Fans in series (push-pull) setup will give you excellent flow. It would be far better to use two fans. It's kind of funny... I see lots of people use one or two fans, when this is not what I would do. My setup would be multiple small fans, on both sides, or a squirrel cage fan. The small fans have the advantage of being quieter, and cheaper too! The squirrel cage fan, if you find a good one, will give far better flow, with the lowest noise level. Since I'm still building my system, I don't have any concrete/usefull info for you. That's why I'm "The Theoretical Cooler"! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-13-2002, 05:52 PM	#15
Tacops Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Malta,Europe Posts: 32	I would consider putting the rad at the top in the middle of the cd-rom's cage and psu Then makes a shroud with a push pull config with 2 40mm panaflo or papst fans for xtreme silence and good airflow i am adding a shroud to my heatercore with this kind of setup in the next few days __________________ NetAdmin By Day,AMD Lover By Night

10-11-2002, 01:07 PM	#3
Drummahjake Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 12	I did get one good suggestion from the [H], to center the heater core and have one elbow out each side so I can still install my window without cutting it up by haveing the one closest to the front out the window side and the second out the other side. Do you think it would show a noticable benefit to have two 120s @ 80 CFM each or 1 120 @ 100CFM?

10-11-2002, 01:44 PM	#4
Drummahjake Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 12	Come on guys, give me some comments please! I figured the people at ProCooling would be able to help me out more than the people at the [H].

10-11-2002, 02:04 PM	#6
Drummahjake Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 12	So you are saying that instead of having to pulling fans to have a pull and a push fan? I thought that was proven to be inefficient? I could be wrong though.

10-12-2002, 03:25 AM	#8
Drummahjake Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 12	bump

10-12-2002, 03:57 AM	#9
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	You'd have to stretch the meaning, or have a huge multiple heatload to call the air that comes out a rad WARM , it's quite cold from my rad. you'd be better off utilising that airflow for the case(mosfets and capacitors,HD's,CD~ROM's,ect) and adding a 120mm blowhole up top to keep it shifting... If you put a duct(please do!) you can make 2 120mm's fit nicely, but have the fans apart from the rad, not bolted straight onto it, have the duct between rad and fan. I'd rather have a cuple of 120's@7Volt than multiple 80's or 92's(which I have now )...

10-12-2002, 05:25 PM	#10
Drummahjake Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 12	Yeah, I think i will scrap the idea of ducting the air out. If I buy two of those new 120mm chrome fans I think it'll run nicely, maybe see what happens if I run them at 7v instead. Thanks for the help guys.

10-12-2002, 05:47 PM	#11
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	talking about fans, if u can , keep an eye on amperage. i took some old fans from a junkyard server. 2 panaflo's; 120 mm, weigh about 0.5 kg each; amperage: 0.6A !!!; my enermax 120's are rated 0.3A. those panaflo's are like jets taking off at 12V, at 7V they generate about the same noise as my enermax's; and at 5V those bad boys don't even want to spin up.

10-12-2002, 07:01 PM	#12
DarkEdge Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sugar Land, Tx Posts: 176	I've actually been thinking of ducting my 120mm fan off my rad. It moves around 135cfm. When my cpu is at idle the fan blows cold air. My ambient room is 18c-20c. When my cpu is at full load however it starts getting warm. I have a P4 2.26@2.9. Full load is at 45c. I honestly wouldn't be able to tell what my system temp is before and after without buying a external thermal probe. My shitty BD7II can't read system temps from its probe. It reports 60c...grrr

10-12-2002, 11:34 PM	#13
Can O' Beans Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Pa - USA Posts: 264	This is how I am going to do mine. All 120mm fans The Rad & shroud are obsolete and I've made better

10-13-2002, 05:41 AM	#14
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	That's very...,GREEN!! .would'nt it be better to have the outlet 120mm fan higher though?, in the case top as a blowhole?...

10-13-2002, 11:11 PM	#16
Can O' Beans Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Pa - USA Posts: 264	Well, in my case, the lower front is the only space my heatercore will fit. Plus, with the exhaust right there, I get good airflo around the motherboard power circuit. And I can't really put a blowhole in as the top of the case slides off, then you pull the panels UP to remove.

10-14-2002, 04:31 AM	#17
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	You could mount the fan on a plate fitted to the frame at the top, and just have o hole in the cover that slides into place. It's just that you will get warm air forming up there, it'll come from the CD~ROMs for sure... That must have been a mother to spray the inside of the case!...

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