DVD-R vs. DVD+R

Pyrotechnic · 08-27-2005, 03:18 PM

I need advice one which one to get, on the basis of which is MOST compatible with home DVD players.

jaydee · 08-27-2005, 04:14 PM

Maybe this will help? http://www.videohelp.com/dvd

TerraMex · 08-28-2005, 09:46 AM

all recorders nowadays burn either, as well as rw+/- and double layer etc etc.
am i missing something ?
http://www.cdfreaks.com -> decent reviews.

redleader · 08-28-2005, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerraMex

all recorders nowadays burn either, as well as rw+/- and double layer etc etc.
am i missing something ?
http://www.cdfreaks.com -> decent reviews.

Yes, compatability with hardware players as mentioned in the first post. I've found that -R disks work well (so far never found a player that couldn't read them). According to the link above, most players read +R just fine as well.

Joe · 08-29-2005, 08:24 AM

I have burned more DVD's for selling than anyone else I know of (total of 5000+DVD's in the last 3 years) .

And here is the simple truth - DVD-R is more compatible, but is more delicate in its writing. seems DVD+R has a better writing method and has a lower error count than DVD-R (although the errors are never seen normally due to the ECC on the DVD's).

For MFG - Verbatim make the best DVD-R's I have used so far. They are slightly more expensive than Ritek but Ritek's 8x media seems VERY error prone. Verbatim are almost error free at 8x (the fastest I write).

As far as compatability, most disc's over 2x are pretty compatible in DVD-R format, but the quality of the disc plays a biggest role when it comes to DVD players liking the disk or freaking out with errors. Once again Verbatim have been the best disc's I have used and the people I burn them for say the same.

Hope this helps.

(also make sure you get a writer that writes DVD-R good also, some are way better at +R than -R. I currently have 3x Sony 710U's, 2x Pioneer DVR-107's and love them both.)

Joe · 08-29-2005, 08:26 AM

Oh and Dual Layer is risky. I bought 3 disc to try it out... 1 was bad with weird errors and my player wasnt too happy with it, and the 3rd didnt play at all. At 7$ a disk thats pricey testing.

TerraMex · 08-29-2005, 03:44 PM

just to add that i'm a verbatim guy since, like, ever.

there's also a few others that are almost as good: Mitsui (havent seen any in a while) and Medianca.

tong · 08-30-2005, 01:52 AM

your best bet is get a nec burner and do the hacked firmware upgrade. Grab dvd+r's and burn them. Using dvd info or a similar tool change the bittsetting for dvd+r (dvd +rw/ dvd +r /rw dual layer) to dvd-rom, bsaicly from the way i understand it it writes a layer of code in the begining of the dvd+r taht makes it a dvd-rom and as we know dvd-roms are compatible with all the players. I've been using this with my nec 2510 and i have to say it works, i got a samsung dvd player taht won;t even play mp3's because it's soooo agains piracy, won't play dvd-r's won;t play dvd+r's NOTHING unless it's store original, and it plays them this way. My dad's dvd player don;t like dvd+r's but plays them when u make it a dvd-rom. The xbox samsung drive is known not to play dvd+r but with bitsetting it thinks it's an original and has no problem. The only downside to this is taht dvd+r media is a TINNY bit smaller in storage space then dvd-r, but i've only had that problem once. hope some of this helps you.

ricecrispi · 08-30-2005, 12:55 PM

I've sold about as many DVD's as Joe has with about 1250-1500 DVDs a year for 2 years.
Commercially
My experience is DVD-R is friendlier with all dvd players. From my experience these problems with dvd compatiblity are with low end, extremely old, or from non common brandnames. Majority of dvd player from sony, pioneer, etc.. will play both type of disc or atleast one type. I've done test and I'd would go with DVD-R and have dvd+R per request or incompatibility problems.

From a physical understand of DVD+R, they should be better than DVD-r but honestly it's just royalities and marketing dispute between companies. From my understanding dvd+r major improvement is playback with scratched surfaces. Seems more like marketing to me.

As for Ritek media, they have variable grade stuff. A grade stuff, A-/B+ grades, and B graded stuff that they relabel. I never get problems out of A grade Riteks but lower grades you might get a bad disc or more errors but nothing affect playback.
Verbatim is more consistent than Riteks and a safer bet.

Most dvd media is just relabeling from 3-4 manufacturers out there. Ritek's quality is based of the grade they get which u can find based of a prefix coded on serial label

For home use. Like Tong, I went out and testd all my machines to see what and what they don't like. I had only one machine reject DVD+R and it's a cheapo dvd player i gave away. I just use riteks 4x dvd-r's and they get spread out for family use in more dozens of dvd players and I'm yet to get complaints but i will get some random machine rejectn dvd+r

Joe · 08-30-2005, 01:31 PM

The Ritek G08 media is ass. Avoid at all costs. I had nearly a 50% defect rate on NEC, Sony, Pioneer, and Lite-On writers with them last year. If you write them at 4x they are fine, at 8x as they are sold as, they are error city.

ricecrispi · 08-30-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

The Ritek G08 media is ass. Avoid at all costs. I had nearly a 50% defect rate on NEC, Sony, Pioneer, and Lite-On writers with them last year. If you write them at 4x they are fine, at 8x as they are sold as, they are error city.

I haven't used them for a year, are they getting that bad? I would get about 2-3 disc not usable for burning and write on the disc was acceptable, no extreme dips in errors but not as smooth as Go4 disk.

SpeedSwede · 08-30-2005, 02:44 PM

TDK, Maxell and Verbatim are brands that are consistently good.

Stay the hell away from unbranded media and cheapo brands like bulkpaq and princo, unless you know what dye they are. Lurking the cdfreaks forum might give you some tips

TerraMex · 08-31-2005, 09:16 AM

Princo is an interesting brand, you can burn a dvd without a hinch and use it all you want, then, six month later, it simply wont read, not a scratch on it.
some discolored, and on another part of the plastic started to shread, all safe in a cupboard, no sun no big temperature differences, not even continuous use, brrr.
Haven't bought another Princo since.

TDK has the biggest of problems, it's way too expensive.
Maxell disappeared for a while, havent seen one in some time.
However, many of my older cd's are maxell and still work perfect.

SpeedSwede · 09-01-2005, 01:22 AM

TDK aren't so expensive (right now), at least I don't consider €9.50 for a pack of 25 too pricey:
http://wesellcd.com/shop/productinfo.asp?id=521

The key is buying a shitload when some store is having a sale

TerraMex · 09-01-2005, 01:07 PM

Doesn't work for me. althou to alot of people it's "not that much",
got 500 Gb total space. usually 60G always free, currently 130.
I rarely burn dvd's, only specific stuff, or some really important backups and programs/OS's
backups of movies, games or mp3 are not that relevant.
I bought a medianca box of 10 dvd's six months ago (decent dvd+r's) and still have two

I actually prefer to upgrade one of my hard drives (got five) than to buy dvd boxes.

Joe · 09-01-2005, 01:10 PM

I not only burn DVD's semi commercially, but I also have an archive of DVD's from rentals

~ 600 of them so far

I do data backups to Tape, I have a DLT drive I use for that.

TerraMex · 09-01-2005, 01:48 PM

yeah, i used to backup stuff to tape too
it was annoying as hell trying to find anything

i have about 240 dvd's backups of that sort, not much, know a guy that has that on music alone,
got mostly old stuff and series, some from vhs , which only started to come out recently in DVD
such as monty python, ren and stimpy, dr.strangelove, etc
not a huge dvd guy, usually see what's on the tv or actually move my arse to the cinema.

j813 · 09-01-2005, 05:00 PM

Joe that's a lot of DVDs.

I guess ofcourse you buy Bulk?
How much, per barrel, per box would be how much per piece?

Here maybe a Ritek per piece would be 0.15Cents, No case etc. included.

What software do you use to write for Multiple DVD drives, and what Drives are or are they all compatible with each other?
I only have 109 & 108 Drives.

Nero will burn multiple drives. I dont think its elegant in the way it does it though, just burns 2 at the same time so you can run into I/O bottle necks off the HD.

Joe · 09-01-2005, 05:45 PM

if I want shit DVD's (such as the Ritek) I could pay like .20$ a disc or less. for the Verbatims I use, its .45$ a disc and I am happy to pay it since I havent had one bad one in 1000 DVD's.

08-27-2005, 03:18 PM	#1
Pyrotechnic Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 240	DVD-R vs. DVD+R I need advice one which one to get, on the basis of which is MOST compatible with home DVD players.

08-28-2005, 09:46 AM	#3
TerraMex Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portugal, Europe Posts: 870	all recorders nowadays burn either, as well as rw+/- and double layer etc etc. am i missing something ? http://www.cdfreaks.com -> decent reviews. __________________ "we need more cowbell."

08-29-2005, 08:24 AM	#5
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	I have burned more DVD's for selling than anyone else I know of (total of 5000+DVD's in the last 3 years) . And here is the simple truth - DVD-R is more compatible, but is more delicate in its writing. seems DVD+R has a better writing method and has a lower error count than DVD-R (although the errors are never seen normally due to the ECC on the DVD's). For MFG - Verbatim make the best DVD-R's I have used so far. They are slightly more expensive than Ritek but Ritek's 8x media seems VERY error prone. Verbatim are almost error free at 8x (the fastest I write). As far as compatability, most disc's over 2x are pretty compatible in DVD-R format, but the quality of the disc plays a biggest role when it comes to DVD players liking the disk or freaking out with errors. Once again Verbatim have been the best disc's I have used and the people I burn them for say the same. Hope this helps. (also make sure you get a writer that writes DVD-R good also, some are way better at +R than -R. I currently have 3x Sony 710U's, 2x Pioneer DVR-107's and love them both.) __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

08-29-2005, 08:26 AM	#6
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	Oh and Dual Layer is risky. I bought 3 disc to try it out... 1 was bad with weird errors and my player wasnt too happy with it, and the 3rd didnt play at all. At 7$ a disk thats pricey testing. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

08-29-2005, 03:44 PM	#7
TerraMex Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portugal, Europe Posts: 870	just to add that i'm a verbatim guy since, like, ever. there's also a few others that are almost as good: Mitsui (havent seen any in a while) and Medianca. __________________ "we need more cowbell."

08-27-2005, 04:14 PM	#2
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Maybe this will help? http://www.videohelp.com/dvd

08-30-2005, 01:52 AM	#8
tong Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ludlow, MA Posts: 89	your best bet is get a nec burner and do the hacked firmware upgrade. Grab dvd+r's and burn them. Using dvd info or a similar tool change the bittsetting for dvd+r (dvd +rw/ dvd +r /rw dual layer) to dvd-rom, bsaicly from the way i understand it it writes a layer of code in the begining of the dvd+r taht makes it a dvd-rom and as we know dvd-roms are compatible with all the players. I've been using this with my nec 2510 and i have to say it works, i got a samsung dvd player taht won;t even play mp3's because it's soooo agains piracy, won't play dvd-r's won;t play dvd+r's NOTHING unless it's store original, and it plays them this way. My dad's dvd player don;t like dvd+r's but plays them when u make it a dvd-rom. The xbox samsung drive is known not to play dvd+r but with bitsetting it thinks it's an original and has no problem. The only downside to this is taht dvd+r media is a TINNY bit smaller in storage space then dvd-r, but i've only had that problem once. hope some of this helps you. __________________ My Heatware My Ebay

08-30-2005, 12:55 PM	#9
ricecrispi Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: california Posts: 429	I've sold about as many DVD's as Joe has with about 1250-1500 DVDs a year for 2 years. Commercially My experience is DVD-R is friendlier with all dvd players. From my experience these problems with dvd compatiblity are with low end, extremely old, or from non common brandnames. Majority of dvd player from sony, pioneer, etc.. will play both type of disc or atleast one type. I've done test and I'd would go with DVD-R and have dvd+R per request or incompatibility problems. From a physical understand of DVD+R, they should be better than DVD-r but honestly it's just royalities and marketing dispute between companies. From my understanding dvd+r major improvement is playback with scratched surfaces. Seems more like marketing to me. As for Ritek media, they have variable grade stuff. A grade stuff, A-/B+ grades, and B graded stuff that they relabel. I never get problems out of A grade Riteks but lower grades you might get a bad disc or more errors but nothing affect playback. Verbatim is more consistent than Riteks and a safer bet. Most dvd media is just relabeling from 3-4 manufacturers out there. Ritek's quality is based of the grade they get which u can find based of a prefix coded on serial label For home use. Like Tong, I went out and testd all my machines to see what and what they don't like. I had only one machine reject DVD+R and it's a cheapo dvd player i gave away. I just use riteks 4x dvd-r's and they get spread out for family use in more dozens of dvd players and I'm yet to get complaints but i will get some random machine rejectn dvd+r

08-30-2005, 01:31 PM	#10
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	The Ritek G08 media is ass. Avoid at all costs. I had nearly a 50% defect rate on NEC, Sony, Pioneer, and Lite-On writers with them last year. If you write them at 4x they are fine, at 8x as they are sold as, they are error city. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

08-30-2005, 02:44 PM	#12
SpeedSwede Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Up North Posts: 22	TDK, Maxell and Verbatim are brands that are consistently good. Stay the hell away from unbranded media and cheapo brands like bulkpaq and princo, unless you know what dye they are. Lurking the cdfreaks forum might give you some tips

08-31-2005, 09:16 AM	#13
TerraMex Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portugal, Europe Posts: 870	Princo is an interesting brand, you can burn a dvd without a hinch and use it all you want, then, six month later, it simply wont read, not a scratch on it. some discolored, and on another part of the plastic started to shread, all safe in a cupboard, no sun no big temperature differences, not even continuous use, brrr. Haven't bought another Princo since. TDK has the biggest of problems, it's way too expensive. Maxell disappeared for a while, havent seen one in some time. However, many of my older cd's are maxell and still work perfect. __________________ "we need more cowbell."

09-01-2005, 01:22 AM	#14
SpeedSwede Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Up North Posts: 22	TDK aren't so expensive (right now), at least I don't consider €9.50 for a pack of 25 too pricey: http://wesellcd.com/shop/productinfo.asp?id=521 The key is buying a shitload when some store is having a sale

09-01-2005, 01:07 PM	#15
TerraMex Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portugal, Europe Posts: 870	Doesn't work for me. althou to alot of people it's "not that much", got 500 Gb total space. usually 60G always free, currently 130. I rarely burn dvd's, only specific stuff, or some really important backups and programs/OS's backups of movies, games or mp3 are not that relevant. I bought a medianca box of 10 dvd's six months ago (decent dvd+r's) and still have two I actually prefer to upgrade one of my hard drives (got five) than to buy dvd boxes. __________________ "we need more cowbell."

09-01-2005, 01:10 PM	#16
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	I not only burn DVD's semi commercially, but I also have an archive of DVD's from rentals ~ 600 of them so far I do data backups to Tape, I have a DLT drive I use for that. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

09-01-2005, 01:48 PM	#17
TerraMex Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portugal, Europe Posts: 870	yeah, i used to backup stuff to tape too it was annoying as hell trying to find anything i have about 240 dvd's backups of that sort, not much, know a guy that has that on music alone, got mostly old stuff and series, some from vhs , which only started to come out recently in DVD such as monty python, ren and stimpy, dr.strangelove, etc not a huge dvd guy, usually see what's on the tv or actually move my arse to the cinema. __________________ "we need more cowbell."

09-01-2005, 05:00 PM	#18
j813 Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: southeast asia Posts: 164	Joe that's a lot of DVDs. I guess ofcourse you buy Bulk? How much, per barrel, per box would be how much per piece? Here maybe a Ritek per piece would be 0.15Cents, No case etc. included. What software do you use to write for Multiple DVD drives, and what Drives are or are they all compatible with each other? I only have 109 & 108 Drives. Nero will burn multiple drives. I dont think its elegant in the way it does it though, just burns 2 at the same time so you can run into I/O bottle necks off the HD. Last edited by Joe; 09-01-2005 at 05:46 PM.

09-01-2005, 05:45 PM	#19
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	if I want shit DVD's (such as the Ritek) I could pay like .20$ a disc or less. for the Verbatims I use, its .45$ a disc and I am happy to pay it since I havent had one bad one in 1000 DVD's. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

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