Triple-evap autocascade

Redken · 03-25-2005, 02:52 PM

Hi guys!

Ok I need some help on deciding how my phase-change setup is going to be. So, all the help that you can give me will be highly appreciated.
I have been doing lots of reading and many threads and articles. Mostly from 2002-2003 , I'm guessing those were the years were phase change boomed and now it's died out somewhat.
Upps..sorry! Back to the topic.

After some thinking, I have decided that what I what is a triple-evap autocascade with a shutoff valve on one of the arms. That can dissipate the heat of an FX57 and two x800xtpe, of course all extremely overclocked.
So...he barely wants anything,right?

Now for the first round of questions:

1- The most obvious first question would have to be. Can it be done?
2- How much HP would the compressor need to have?
3- Can a “regular” sized condensor be used for this? (regular = the kind you see mostly used in Chilly1's,Vapos, Mach's and other custom made)
4- Can a valve be put in one of the capillaries to shutoff cooling to one of the evaporators, to be opened when needed?

I want this to be a good investment for me. So, it has to be as future proof as possible.
Right now I would cool down the CPU and one GPU. But in the future I plan on moving to dual GPU's. That's were the capillary valve comes in. I want to leave one of the arms dormant till its needed, but the system has to be prepared for the load.
And I want to use only one compressor. That's were the autocascade comes in .

So, what do you guys think?

redleader · 03-25-2005, 06:13 PM

An autocascade is a type of cascade that has one compressor but multiple stages/refrigerants. From the sound of it, you don't actually want an autocascade, but rather a single single stage unit with 3 heads. Am I understanding you ?

A 3 head autocascade could be done, but it would be extremely hard to make and would involve a lot of tweaking and testing I think.

Dukemurmur · 04-07-2005, 10:00 AM

Why not just have one stage cool both condensors such as a chiller so you would have chilled water condensors. From there have one unit with dual heads for the vid card with one head shutoff and turn it on in the future for SLI or other. Then have the other compressor for the CPU...that is what i am plaining on doing will be much eaiser then a "normal" cascade but it think that you should be getting some temps around -50 maybe colder depending on the gas...R404a would work well in the chiller then maybe R507...in the others...

that is my .02 C

Duke

maxSaleen · 04-07-2005, 05:58 PM

You have a perfect application for a water chiller. Granted you won't see crazy cold temperatures, but a water chiller will be much more cost effective and easier to build. Phasechange.com is the best place to go for help. I would suggest:
1. two 1/3hp danfoss compressors with r22.
2. Condensors of whatever size fans you will use (rParts has a good selection, so does ebay)
3. You'll have to make your own evap. A copper coil inside an insulated 3' tube is a good idea (25' 1/4" Cu tube should work).
4. A water cooling loop suitable for sub zero temps. Avoid using pumps that use ceramic components as they might shatter. Maybe a couple of DDCs?

You can expect temps in the -20C range. Maybe lower. R22 boils at roughly -42C. How well you build your system will determine how low the system will go.

redleader · 04-07-2005, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dukemurmur

Why not just have one stage cool both condensors such as a chiller so you would have chilled water condensors. From there have one unit with dual heads for the vid card with one head shutoff and turn it on in the future for SLI or other. Then have the other compressor for the CPU...that is what i am plaining on doing will be much eaiser then a "normal" cascade but it think that you should be getting some temps around -50 maybe colder depending on the gas...R404a would work well in the chiller then maybe R507...in the others...

that is my .02 C

Duke

What does the water do? Unless you're using it for something, you'd get better results with a traditional heatexchanger.

maxSaleen · 04-07-2005, 07:08 PM

Are you familiar with liquid chillers? The water would act as a medium for communicating heat away from the processor and GPUs. The phase change system would cool the water, the water would cool the processor and GPUs.

redleader · 04-07-2005, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxSaleen

Are you familiar with liquid chillers? The water would act as a medium for communicating heat away from the processor and GPUs. The phase change system would cool the water, the water would cool the processor and GPUs.

Yeah. I think hes talking about a cascade, not a chiller, so the coolant just wastes capacity by bleeding capacity that could be used on the second stage.

maxSaleen · 04-08-2005, 08:42 AM

I'm aware that he wants to use a cascade. I just suggested that his application would be better served by a chiller. If you really want a triple evap autocascade, go over to the extremesystem forums and look up a member by the name of chilly1. He is an hvac engineer and is one of the few people around who is actually capable of building such systems (he has actually built one for an SLI setup.....incredible build.... weighed 150lbs+). Unless you have extensive knowledge of phase change cooling, and a lot of spare time, I would suggestion sticking with a single stage system for every component, or building a liquid chiller. Either would be much easier than diving head first into a multi head cascade system.

03-25-2005, 02:52 PM	#1
Redken Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 15	Triple-evap autocascade Hi guys! Ok I need some help on deciding how my phase-change setup is going to be. So, all the help that you can give me will be highly appreciated. I have been doing lots of reading and many threads and articles. Mostly from 2002-2003 , I'm guessing those were the years were phase change boomed and now it's died out somewhat. Upps..sorry! Back to the topic. After some thinking, I have decided that what I what is a triple-evap autocascade with a shutoff valve on one of the arms. That can dissipate the heat of an FX57 and two x800xtpe, of course all extremely overclocked. So...he barely wants anything,right? Now for the first round of questions: 1- The most obvious first question would have to be. Can it be done? 2- How much HP would the compressor need to have? 3- Can a “regular” sized condensor be used for this? (regular = the kind you see mostly used in Chilly1's,Vapos, Mach's and other custom made) 4- Can a valve be put in one of the capillaries to shutoff cooling to one of the evaporators, to be opened when needed? I want this to be a good investment for me. So, it has to be as future proof as possible. Right now I would cool down the CPU and one GPU. But in the future I plan on moving to dual GPU's. That's were the capillary valve comes in. I want to leave one of the arms dormant till its needed, but the system has to be prepared for the load. And I want to use only one compressor. That's were the autocascade comes in . So, what do you guys think? __________________ P4C800E DL,P4 2.4c @ 3.4(droop mod),1G Mushkin 3500 II 2,2,2,8 @ 3.1v,AIW 9800 Pro (450/370 @ 1.9v core),Audiology Platinum,2xDiamonds 8mb Raid0,Lian-Li Pc70,PC P & Cooling 510D,Plextor 708A,Plextor 52x32x52...water cooled...

03-25-2005, 06:13 PM	#2
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	An autocascade is a type of cascade that has one compressor but multiple stages/refrigerants. From the sound of it, you don't actually want an autocascade, but rather a single single stage unit with 3 heads. Am I understanding you ? A 3 head autocascade could be done, but it would be extremely hard to make and would involve a lot of tweaking and testing I think.

04-07-2005, 10:00 AM	#3
Dukemurmur Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Up in the boon'dox Posts: 18	Why not just have one stage cool both condensors such as a chiller so you would have chilled water condensors. From there have one unit with dual heads for the vid card with one head shutoff and turn it on in the future for SLI or other. Then have the other compressor for the CPU...that is what i am plaining on doing will be much eaiser then a "normal" cascade but it think that you should be getting some temps around -50 maybe colder depending on the gas...R404a would work well in the chiller then maybe R507...in the others... that is my .02 C Duke

04-07-2005, 05:58 PM	#4
maxSaleen Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 383	You have a perfect application for a water chiller. Granted you won't see crazy cold temperatures, but a water chiller will be much more cost effective and easier to build. Phasechange.com is the best place to go for help. I would suggest: 1. two 1/3hp danfoss compressors with r22. 2. Condensors of whatever size fans you will use (rParts has a good selection, so does ebay) 3. You'll have to make your own evap. A copper coil inside an insulated 3' tube is a good idea (25' 1/4" Cu tube should work). 4. A water cooling loop suitable for sub zero temps. Avoid using pumps that use ceramic components as they might shatter. Maybe a couple of DDCs? You can expect temps in the -20C range. Maybe lower. R22 boils at roughly -42C. How well you build your system will determine how low the system will go.

04-07-2005, 07:08 PM	#6
maxSaleen Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 383	Are you familiar with liquid chillers? The water would act as a medium for communicating heat away from the processor and GPUs. The phase change system would cool the water, the water would cool the processor and GPUs.

04-08-2005, 08:42 AM	#8
maxSaleen Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 383	I'm aware that he wants to use a cascade. I just suggested that his application would be better served by a chiller. If you really want a triple evap autocascade, go over to the extremesystem forums and look up a member by the name of chilly1. He is an hvac engineer and is one of the few people around who is actually capable of building such systems (he has actually built one for an SLI setup.....incredible build.... weighed 150lbs+). Unless you have extensive knowledge of phase change cooling, and a lot of spare time, I would suggestion sticking with a single stage system for every component, or building a liquid chiller. Either would be much easier than diving head first into a multi head cascade system.

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