FX-55 or P4E 3.2/3.4/3.6

[Anemone]

Hi everyone

I'd like to hear your thoughts, because I'm having a horrible time on my own getting to a decision.

At the moment I'm trying to determine the heart of a system to be built over the course of June-July.

The possibilities as I view them at the moment (maybe your thoughts will expand on these but they are as I see them atm)
AMD FX-55
Intel Prescott 3.2, 3.4 or 3.6
The EE's are, unless you make an incredible argument, beyond what I consider to be acceptable cost
The AMD XP 32 bit chips aren't really in my consideration nor are Northwood P4's

(am expecting the 3.6 and the 55 as the forefront of the decision)



I "could" go so far as to Phase change cool them, but that is something that I'm weighing out.

I've never used AMD, though once long ago parent owned a K6 laptop - not sure if it was K6 but something like that.

I will however list what I consider to be the truly lingering misgivings I have with AMD.
AMD as a chip in itself is often like owning a fancy English hybrid sportscar,
it runs fast as hell, but it breaks down a lot, or sometimes it just
does quirky things that are impossible to track down and may
or may not keep something from running like it should.
Years down the line, I've known those with AMD systems to have
little weird quirks, some piece of hardware or software that for reasons
that are impossible to fathom, just will not work as it seems it should.
For this reason, a Via based chipset is absolutely out of the question.
I've read that Nvidia chipsets are not a bowl of roses either, but they would
have to be the way I would go if swayed to go AMD.

So I get to thinking on a pure performance level.
The FX-53 really does well, and while I think even with water this thing may not get more than 200 or 300mhz overclock, that amount
is enough to, in my book put it on level with a 4ghz maybe 4.2ghz P4 Prescott. That means to compete, the Prescott would
have to do what it currently can't do with just water. The question is, am I buying the super fast hybrid car, just to have
issues later?
Can I trust it? Will it overclock at all? Given that this is a rather high price point, is it going to be worth the risk?
What connected things, SATA, Raid 0, system issues come up that might be "flaky" on me?
I guess I am asking if there are folks with any experience in this area, even if that is extrapolated experience
over the years vs direct FX experience.


The Prescott is, well looking like its peak is getting close. The days of taking a 3+ ghz chip and making it gain 600-1000 mhz with
some nice cooling could well be at a close. The 775 socket could help tons, but the worry here is that I get a Prescott that
performs well but that Tejas hits the cap solidly and basically the upgrade path dead ends on me. The DDR2 memory that
is likely to be an integral part of the Alderwood will limit to 533.
(not really considering Grantsdale as the cost drop/ and lack of PAT performance drop sort of make it rather uninteresting)
The plan would be to attempt to get a Prescott to 1.33 OC, to 1066 bus, and thus use the 533 memory at 1:1, well that is
in the normal P4 quad memory access methodology. If Tejas comes at 1066 to start then the DDR2 would have to
be replaced to be able to take that chip higher possibly, making the upgrade path complicated, and expensive.
I'll add that Prescott oc'ing is something that I find familiar ground. AMD oc is a different beast and that might be something
worth commenting on from those who've had success or no success in that area.

Anyway use of the machine is probably 75% online gaming and about 25% VERY intensive Excel and data manipulation.
I multitask while gaming, as there are always chat windows open, web pages being referenced, screenshots being
edited, and the like. Oh and being a digital photography buff, you can imagine what photoshop with a 6 megapixel image
can do to even a fast system if there are many other things going on.

Assume that high end air or water cooling is the bottom level I would apply. Phase change would probably be required to get any
headroom from the Prescott, which also weighs on my mind, but it may also be needed to get any from the FX (don't know)
Pelt on the GPU is baseline - as oc from the GPU lends the greatest increase in framerates.
Also assume working at 1600x1200 as that is what the LCD requires and I rarely ever go below that.

I do realize these chips don't exist yet. And it appears that DDR500 compatibility may very well make the FX-55 even faster for this
comparison. Given its quite a bit to spend, your thoughts and years of experience would be very helpful if you would share with me.

Thank you.

[Fyber]

Look, spec. wise, if you're going to build a system that's that high end, wait. Now is the worst possible time to build a system that high end, just because so many new technologies are coming out. Wouldn't you rather have a new socket Intel/AMD chip and motherboard, with DDRII, PCI Express, and the BTX form factor? It just makes sense.

Now if you do insist on buying one soon, I'd say wait a month. Intel's coming out with D0 stepping prescotts that run cooler and better (supposedly) than their first versions, and nVidia/VIA are coming out with Athlon 64 chipsets that feature the agp/pci lock they should have had.

But in all honesty, wait until more stuff comes out. It'll save you money and get you a better system overall.

Now it seems like you're spending a lot on this system, but a clearer budget would help.
If you're into a lot of multitasking, SMP (dual processing), using opterons or xeons would work for you, although I'm not sure if this would fit your budget or needs.

Coolingwise, if you want to go phase change, there are a lot of new units on the market. Personally, a Promedia MachII (SE is the special performance version I belive) converted using the metal conversion kit and a pc-60 case on top would be a very visually appealing, and very well performing case combination. Secondly, if you want to do watercooling for your other heat producing components (nothbridge, GPU), an MCP600 pump from swiftech, a prototype DangerDen Maze 4 N/B block (call them and ask for it, they're nice guys I hear), a Maze 4-1 Peltier GPU block, and a 120mm radiator will fit into your case well, and offer great performance. I'd still say don't throw out your money yet, especially if you're waiting into June-July to build this machine.

Thanks,
Fyberwire

[iroc409]

if you want to go cheap, and can still get ahold of them, snatch up an axpm 2600+. out of the box mine overclocked to 2672 on a via kt400. right now i run it at a happy 2500mhz, mostly for cooling purposes and the fact that my pc2700 and single se hdd just won't keep up.

other than the sound card issue, i've had no reliability problems with the hardware. according to sandra 04, the chip benches faster than a p4 3.2, and amd 64's (opteron and fx51/52's), if you take the sse2 out of the equation.

fast enough for me for now for games and such, i find my vid card lacks more than the system, or the memory, or the incredibly annoying hard drive.

for excel and that sort, i doubt you'll be displeased. doing a 5mp extract filter takes only a few seconds in ps, while several other power-hungry apps are running.

personally, i'd keep the gaming and work seperate if possible. but if you're determined to run a thousand apps with a high end game and get good results, you may want to look into smp (a very costly option).

for $200 with an nf7-s and axpm, you'll have a pretty fast system without spending a college fund.

i'd agree, wait until the 64-bit market matures. then i'd go with a dually opteron, but for work only

i've used amd almost exclusively for the last several years, including in the work place, where i supported and built who knows how many workstations, with no real hardware issues (other than the occasional dead hdd).

also, one other consideration. if you do depend on this machine for your livelihood (aka job), then i would get a second machine for work, and steer clear of WC. not that it's not reliable, but there are so many variables, accidents, and tinkering that can go awry and consume a lot of time to play with. if it's something you must depend on, remove as many of the "ifs" and time-consuming tinkerings as absolutely possible (which i would also take ocing as a potential "time-consuming tinkering"). that's the main reason i haven't taken the dip.. i haven't built a new work-only machine yet, and i just don't want to have the hassle.

but, if you work for someone else on their equipment, then tinker until it explodes

[TerraMex]

You can get a dual Opteron 242 ou 244 , with a Tyan Thunder K8W and 1G ddr400 Samsung ECC on a resonable price.

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_cont...xeon32a&page=1

You can actually get a decent gaming platform with them, getting a 9800pro/XT.
The same site has a test around.

[#Rotor]

Ironically, the fact that now is the worst time to buy, because tomorrow it's going to be cheaper..... end's up actually making now, always the best time to buy..... because waiting for tomorrow is also going to make you wait for the day after....etc....etc.... ending up making you wait for ever..... this is my philosophy...

[Tempus]

There is a time and a place for upgrades. Because its a curve and not a line (price, performance, and innovation)

If I'm actually trying to SAVE a little money, I buy after the "next big thing hits" and buy a generation down. I don't think prescotts have full hit yet, so I'd wait if I go intel.

Since I have an FX-51, I have slightly partial to AMD. I have had no issues with it, and as a general rule I think its just kick ass. But I'd make sure to wait until the S739s are in full bloom and the mobos are solid (agp/pci bus lock is a MUST since mine sucks w/out it.)

DDRII is going to be horribly expensive for the next year or so, so take that into account if money matters to you at all.

[sevisehda]

I'm thinking about upgrading as well. To be honest I have to stop my hand from pulling out the plastic at least ocne a week because I see some nice shiny part. Like rotor said there are alot of new technologies on the horizon.

I've set up some design guidelines for my new system. First is it must be PCI-E for graphics. Second I've set a date to not order a part until Halloween(10/31) and have it completed by Thanksgiving(11/26). The reason is I'm forced to wait. Waiting a few months will let new stuff onto the market. It will also bring down the prices of whats on the market currently. 3rd it will let me spend my "play" money on my Jeep.

There are always parts you can buy before hand and then hand them down to a new box. If I were to find a great deal on some HDDs I may get them. As for the CPU/MB/Mem/Vid wait 6 months let the market mature some. Also think about future upgrades. The next gen of video cards will be PCI-E and AGP, however after that high end cards could very well be only PCI-E. AMD has released 3 sockets in less than a year. While socket A seamed to last forever. Its possible that some of those sockets won't be around long and if you purchase one you'd have a harder time upgrading in the future.

[Butcher]

Originally Posted by iroc409

if you want to go cheap, and can still get ahold of them, snatch up an axpm 2600+. out of the box mine overclocked to 2672 on a via kt400. right now i run it at a happy 2500mhz, mostly for cooling purposes and the fact that my pc2700 and single se hdd just won't keep up.

I'm quite pleased with my xp-m, for the cost the performance is superb.

[iroc409]

Originally Posted by Butcher

I'm quite pleased with my xp-m, for the cost the performance is superb.

no doubt! i was particularly suprised with the sandra benchmarks. i'd really like to see what it could do with a nice pelt setup it will definitely stay in my gaming rig for a while.

although a recent print project i finished got a little out of hand as far as the system goes, for the most part it doesn't flinch. and even with this last project, it still handled it, just not as fast as i would have liked it to be. which is quite a compelling argument for the next one to be a duallie with 2gb ram or more. 5mp jpg images are no sweat, it's when working with half a dozen 40mb photoshop files at once, or the occasional 150mb+ photoshop files that it starts to drag a little i don't like to wait for my system when i'm "in the groove", that's rather annoying :/

[Anemone]

I am reading both poll and your thoughts - and thank you all for both.

[Anemone]

Well looks like FX-55, Nforce3 250 with Pci-e and dual Pelt (cpu and gpu) is where things are headed. There are just too many uphill battles with the Intel side lately, all those battles costing more money and in the end the FX just outperforms in enough key areas to leave the Prescott gasping.

I still have to wait for some of these things to be built, 939 socket for example and the pci-e boards based on the Nforce3, but pretty comfortable with this choice and I can certainly wait for the stuff to arrive on the market.

Thank you all for your help!

[siavash_s_s]

peltier? im shocked and appalled!

Originally Posted by Anemone

Well looks like FX-55, Nforce3 250 with Pci-e and dual Pelt (cpu and gpu) is where things are headed.

[Anemone]

I blame it on Phaestus's evil influences :P


hehe and Feathers too

[kronchev]

"AMD as a chip in itself is often like owning a fancy English hybrid sportscar,
it runs fast as hell, but it breaks down a lot, or sometimes it just
does quirky things that are impossible to track down and may
or may not keep something from running like it should."

Uh, no. an AMD x86 chip runs EXACTLY the same as an intel x86 chip. youre thinking of the K5 and 486 problems...years ago.

[Tempus]

Originally Posted by Anemone

Well looks like FX-55, Nforce3 250 with Pci-e and dual Pelt (cpu and gpu) is where things are headed. There are just too many uphill battles with the Intel side lately, all those battles costing more money and in the end the FX just outperforms in enough key areas to leave the Prescott gasping.

I still have to wait for some of these things to be built, 939 socket for example and the pci-e boards based on the Nforce3, but pretty comfortable with this choice and I can certainly wait for the stuff to arrive on the market.

Thank you all for your help!

Just curious, what mobo are you thinking??

I'm looking to replace my SK8N but all the NF3 250s that I can find are socket 754. BLEH. Why doesn't anyone make kick ass boards for ME!!!

[Anemone]

I'd wait on an Asus 939 version of the NF3, myself. It'll probably come in the next month or so, I'd expect.

[Fus-sion101]

I havent seen the test results on the fx 55 BUT I know that the benchmarks are all over the place for the p4 extreme vs the fx 53 which tells me if you you want gaming and dont have the cash you can get pretty close to the same performance as a p4 extreme without spending 1k on a chip and while im here anyone know if a p4 3.4 ghz is better than the p4 3.6 ghz??? WHATS THE DIFF !!!! hehe sorry couldnt resist any who just something i read in CGW recently thought id ad in ^^ and if you need to just email me the reply to my question dont wanna thorw this thread off ^^

[Anemone]

OC'd the FX pretty much spanks the P4EE in many areas, even with the P4EE OC'd.

Add to that, the fact that the FX will have the boost of 64bit when it arrives where the EE is only what you see now, and it's pretty clear which is better.

Top it all off with the FX being OC friendly, where the 775 series is not.

AMD wins all ribbons, Intel comes up with a "but what about us" look on their face.

Anyway, "holy thread revival, Batman"