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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums. |
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05-25-2004, 12:04 PM | #51 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: May 2003
Location: shanghai, china
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how about we do both, pug gets you the block and you can test that, and in the mean time the kit test can be worked out... sound feasable?
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05-25-2004, 12:07 PM | #52 | ||
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 38
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Quote:
However, if it is to be a kit, I think nothing less serious than the recent Swiftech 22600 using the new MCW6000/6002 block should be considered. Quote:
The above Swiftech kit does look to be the least compromised of the 3/8"+ kits on the market though. Last edited by nightic; 05-25-2004 at 12:16 PM. |
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05-25-2004, 12:08 PM | #53 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 80
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Have no problem with a kit - just don't want to see it up against quad cores & a ship's bilge pump, y'know?
As for twin 80s... hardly performance oriented, eh BillA?... (sorry, old joke) Happy to keep thrashing this out until we find a fair platform. |
05-25-2004, 12:18 PM | #54 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
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Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com
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It seems to make sense to me to have 4 distinct categories when evaluating a kit:
1) Ease of use (entry level =no modification to case is necessary for installation; emphasis given here on "fool proof"; typical means a few fan holes; advanced means some CNC req'd) 2) Quality of mfg (Goop? Leaks? Cobbled together in basement or absolutely stunning?) 3) Performance (lowest CPU temp wins) 4) Quiet (lowest noise levels win) No kit would have perfect marks in all 4; can't be small and silent and cool... BTW I am going to delete all car posts in this thread in 3...2...1 |
05-25-2004, 12:22 PM | #55 |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
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Pug
gonna have to ignore the clutter for the moment wb & pump eh ? well, with a given wb, pump, and rad there WILL be a single flow rate -> do you know what the actual flow rate is in your system ? if not, why not ? (j/k) so then all one needs to do is look at that point on the curve, no ? why are we making this so complex ? if its a kit 'shoot out', fine Swiftech will have to hold for a couple of weeks, new kit options coming - but even so a shoot out win is unlikely as we do not offer so large a rad in a kit (and I must admit that the Swiftech kits are NOT oriented to maximum performance, maximum installation convenience is the clear goal) Pug, a 'kit' as being defined here is a package of a complete WCing system with instructions pHaestus concur with your groupings, permits a user to measure by Their yardstick |
05-25-2004, 12:33 PM | #56 | |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
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That sounds pretty ideal.
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Hey, since the Canadians are in North America, and have baseball and basketball teams, play tons'o hockey, and drag race...all with us Northern Mexicans, perhaps they should be counted in the USA philosophy school. In that case, can we use C-Systems pumps? And if so, how many are we limited to, because you can plug'em in in series, and I don't know how many you can effectively do that with. (It would be a fun experiment though) |
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05-25-2004, 12:35 PM | #57 | ||
Cooling Neophyte
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Location: London, UK
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Quote:
A kit that performs better under the same conditions with an 'opposing philosophy' part in the loop is IMO not an exemplar of good design. Although with the high likelyhood of compromise amongst most kits available, this may be acceptable. Quote:
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05-25-2004, 12:38 PM | #58 | |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lawrenceville, NJ
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Quote:
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Ghetto riggin'! |
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05-25-2004, 12:41 PM | #59 | |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 38
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Quote:
I think we've accepted "kit" in this context as meaning a bundled group of parts that would otherwise be available seperately rather than a pre-made solution. |
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05-25-2004, 12:42 PM | #60 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
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This is really only worthwhile if we can get some of the big European mfgrs to submit complete kits. If so I think it would be really interesting for those of us in North America to get a chance to see how our Teutonic wc brethren have been developing.
As an aside, I remember why I never bothered to moderate the forums; that took a lot of effort to clean up! Car guys and politics guys please start new threads. |
05-25-2004, 12:49 PM | #61 | |
Cooling Neophyte
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Location: London, UK
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Quote:
His Wizard Designs outfit represents some of the more popular picks amongst the Teutonic community. |
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05-25-2004, 12:56 PM | #62 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lawrenceville, NJ
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I'd be willing to play with a Alpha 1.0 if I can get one cheap...always wanted a SHD block. how much shipping to US is expected?
/edit: seems to be £3.99. these are 1/4 i'm guessing....let me sleep on it
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05-25-2004, 12:58 PM | #63 | |
Cooling Savant
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Sorry!
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I was just using cars as an analogy, and it kind of got out of control...DOH! |
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05-25-2004, 12:58 PM | #64 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
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Maybe Asetek would pony up a kit too. This could work out very well: I'll test out the wbs as well on my testbed and then we can just have Procooling giveaways
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05-25-2004, 01:00 PM | #65 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lawrenceville, NJ
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what I'd want to do with it is cool my socket 7 server...but thinking about it I dont think itd even fit on the socket (no clearance). so maybe I can convince my friend to do it, since I'm hooking him up with watercooling. If I can get it all for $100 I'll definitly use his system as a test
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05-25-2004, 01:02 PM | #66 |
Cooling Savant
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Question: The idea of a price limit (£200) has been raised - do we take into account the incredibly high premium Europeans pay for the same equipment?
For example, the MCW50 block is $38.95 at Swiftech's online store for US customers, with no tax for non-CA residents, but the same block is £28.93 before VAT (or £33.99 after VAT) in the UK - at today's rates, thats $52.45 before VAT and $61.63 after! Do we therefore reduce the amt. that a US kit can cost to reflect this 35-58% premium? If so, by how much?
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05-25-2004, 01:05 PM | #67 | |
Cooling Savant
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Quote:
I do notice that stuff is REALLY EXPENSIVE. I'm not going to be able to do this for under 150 US
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05-25-2004, 01:06 PM | #68 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
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well I didn't include price as one of my 4 prime criteria because it's so subjective. An Innovatek kit is $300US at www.highspeedpc.com how does that compare w/ price in Europe?
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05-25-2004, 01:18 PM | #69 | |
Cooling Neophyte
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Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Have a look here for a selection: Innovatek kits |
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05-25-2004, 01:30 PM | #70 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Isle of Man
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The Innovatek XXS kit is €239 at Innovatek's online shop, which at today's rate is $289.50 - so pretty much the same price in Europe as in the US.
The US ripping off Europe goes for pretty much all computer hardware - for example, a Dell 2001FP 20.1" LCD is £844 after VAT in the UK, or $1515 - when I bought my 2001FPs in the States they were $750 each - half the price.
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05-25-2004, 01:33 PM | #71 |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
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"The US ripping off Europe goes for pretty much all computer hardware . . . . "
wtf the US is responsible for EU taxation ? |
05-25-2004, 01:39 PM | #72 | ||||||||
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
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Quote:
I think we score fairly highly in most categories there if that's the design brief. I can drop to a single 120mm rad now that cases with 120mm mounts as standard are becoming more commonplace but if people wanted to see a more direct comparison - we could easily make a kit using twin 80mms (unless Swiftech's forthcoming kit just happens to include a 120). Thanks for the moderation. It's appreciated. Quote:
Why not? I'm not the design team, that's why. You can think of me as a salesman with a passion if it makes it easier... All the parts I'm offering are available as a kit or separately. Hell, we'll even be selling parts of the block so that existing users of our products can upgrade their old blocks (if they bought the right ones) We can wait that couple of weeks... I have to get the kit from Germany & forward it to the US. No problem. What's your biggest rad(s) likely to be? I'm quite flexible you know. Quote:
I concur with your definition of a 'kit'. Quote:
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I don't think we'd need to send more than the kit I have in mind. Maybe if initial tests prove inconclusive... (thanks for the props nightic ) Quote:
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05-25-2004, 01:42 PM | #73 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Isle of Man
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No, obviously not - not trying to insinuate that its the US or "greedy US manufacturers" at fault (although some manufacturers do charge more in countries that can afford more, like Microsoft and Dell) but merely trying to point out the disparity between the costs for identical parts - my wording was rash, however.
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05-25-2004, 01:44 PM | #74 | |
Cooling Neophyte
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Location: London, UK
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Quote:
That wouldn't be the case in this instance. No manner of taxes would account for that level of price inflation on an electrical item. Dell simply charges that amount over here because we're all idiots and don't mind paying :shrug: Further reading: Inq |
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05-25-2004, 02:03 PM | #75 |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
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well, uninformed buyers are needed too,
else all the business would be at one spot j/k |
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