Newer Test Results

pHaestus · 02-09-2004, 10:27 AM

I think some of you have seen these by now, but I figured I'd go ahead and post them for everyone. I am waiting on mfgr comments to finish the reviews; Joe said he'd post them on Sunday when he got back in town from work. Anyway here are the results for the Dangerden Maze4 and the Swiftech MCW5000-A:

Earlier Swiftech results were using older springs (presumably weaker). With the newest springs the MCW5000-A looks pretty good at lower flow rates (such as you'd see with multiple blocks or that 3/8" tubing that Swiftech likes). Their strategy for cooling system design makes a lot more sense to me now.

The Maze4 is less restrictive than most of the other waterblocks and does reasonably well at high flow rates. I wouldn't recommend it with anything less than a Mag3/MCP600 though and I wouldn't use it in a loop where multiple blocks are lowering flow rate below 2GPM.

jaydee · 02-09-2004, 07:46 PM

That is some wierd points on that MCW5000-A? Why does it do sligtly better at 1.25GMP than 1.5GPM? Other than that it it performs very much like I thought it would. I wasn't expecting more flow rate to significantly increase performace as the other one's do because of the design.

pHaestus · 02-09-2004, 11:06 PM

jaydee: That's called "real data". Not statistically significant (note the error bars).

I just finished installing the aquajoe block and promptly had to pull it because of a leak. I plumbed in #rotor's block in the mean time; should start testing that one tomorrow

dacooltech · 02-10-2004, 12:31 AM

looks great pH... the new springs made quite a big difference (around 2C?) as it seems ,compared to your prelim test results with the older springs

joemac · 02-10-2004, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

jaydee: That's called "real data". Not statistically significant (note the error bars).

I just finished installing the aquajoe block and promptly had to pull it because of a leak. I plumbed in #rotor's block in the mean time; should start testing that one tomorrow

Um leak? I thought that the Aquajoe was already under test. Did the leak develop during the testing? Did it start to leak on it’s own or was it a case of loosing or tightening of the barbs as which was the case when the WW leak. If so will you make the same attempts to fix the leak or not? While not impossible it is highly improbable that the unit left Aquajoe with a leak, as all blocks are pressure tested for leaks before shipping. Any additional information would be helpful.

pHaestus · 02-10-2004, 08:05 AM

On Sunday night I installed all the mounting hardware for the aquajoe but didn't plumb the block into the loop. Last night I did so and the block was leaking around the barbs. Everything's so tight in that area with 1/2" thickwall hose that I am not completely sure if it's a leak between hose and barb or a leak from barb to block. The barbs weren't even completely fingertight (but they were taped up) so I dunno.

At any rate the leak occurred before I had even mounted the block onto my system and so no harm. I'll definitely get the problem solved and then test the aquajoe out. It isn't a big deal and could very well have been that my hose was a little expanded from going on and off 4-5 other blocks.

nikhsub1 · 02-10-2004, 11:28 PM

Not to rush you pHaestus but when are we going to see the original WW data? This is what I am most interested in. Did D-Tek live up to the original

Apocalipsis · 02-11-2004, 08:35 AM

In the same line it will be good to see results from MCW5002 block. Just to see real improvements over the MCW5000.

pHaestus · 02-11-2004, 09:25 AM

The MCW5000-A and the MCW5002 perform identically as a function of flow rate. The difference is in their flow resistance only.

Les · 02-11-2004, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

The MCW5000-A and the MCW5002 perform identically as a function of flow rate. The difference is in their flow resistance only.

Am confused
How is the MCW5000-A diffeerent from the MCW5000 tested here:

pHaestus · 02-11-2004, 11:33 AM

The original MCW5000 had a top that allowed the bulk of the water to avoid the pins. Bill's design change was the "dropped deck" top that forces water to actually go through the copper pins of the base. That modification is the MCW5000-A. The MCW5002 is the same MCW5000-A design with the 1/2" push in fittings replaced with 3/8" NPT threads for hose barbs.

I think anyway

Les · 02-11-2004, 11:55 AM

Ta ,sounds right.

Apocalipsis · 02-11-2004, 12:26 PM

Ok thx, didn't know that.

Blackeagle · 02-11-2004, 02:46 PM

Heh, Danger Den is gonna think you're out to get them pH. First ya point out the mount issue with the RBX & now the Maze 4 comes in second to the Swifty MCW5000A.

Glad to see more testing from you so soon, great job pH! We really do need a toasting smilie here Joe.

I look forward to reading the complete review!

pHaestus · 02-11-2004, 03:11 PM

I have no interest in angering Dangerden; Jeremy seems like a nice guy and has been very helpful to this site for a long time.

I was actually surprised that the Maze4 does so well; roughly 2.5-3C worse than an RBX at the same flow rate (and less restrictive so it should have a higher overall flow rate). Not bad really. I don't completely follow their design strategy with the Maze4 or the RBX though; it seems like they are tuning the blocks for larger pumps than most people use at the expense of performance at lower flow rates (which most people have). Swiftech's approach seems entirely sensible given they use 3/8" hose and push multiple blocks/multiple smaller radiators for complete systems. This means though that people who are only cooling CPUs with decent pumps and lower resistance loops could do better (Whitewater or RBX)

pHaestus · 02-13-2004, 10:47 PM

I'll finish testing the #rotor block tonight and probably finish writing up the Maze4 review as well. That leaves tomorrow/Sunday for the original Whitewater (I hear your pleas Nikhsub1). Not 100% sure I'll finish that testing before I go out of town for a week but I'll do my best.

Wildfrogman · 02-15-2004, 11:45 PM

Looks like the maze4 really needs a high flow system to perform great from the graph. I am looking forward to seeing the #rotor block's performance in your review also.

#Rotor · 02-16-2004, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildfrogman

I am looking forward to seeing the #rotor block's performance in your review also.

pHaestus · 02-16-2004, 04:44 AM

http://phaestus.procooling.com/temp/secrate.jpg

shhh don't tell anyone I posted that.

About to catch a flight; be back this afternoon from Wisconsin

#Rotor · 02-16-2004, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

http://phaestus.procooling.com/temp/secrate.jpg

shhh don't tell anyone I posted that.

About to catch a flight; be back this afternoon from Wisconsin

Heeehaaa I'm almost not last

Awesome job

Wildfrogman · 02-16-2004, 03:53 PM

Hey, until the gpm goes past 1gpm the #rotor block is better performing than the maze4

It follows nearly the same performance curve as the swiftech but the #rotor seems ~1/1.5C higher which isnt bad at all.

I have an idea, how about testing the dtek TC-4 v2~Spiral aluminum top waterblocks since dtek dropped the price to like $25. I have seen many people wanting to know how those perform compared to the newer blocks because of the new low price. I really havnt seen many reviews of the TC-4 v2 compared to many other blocks either It may become much more popular because of the price and people remembering back in the day the TC-4 was a bit better than the Spiral...atleast thats what I remember. Testing blocks takes alot of time and I can understand if it takes a while but testing those older blocks will show sort of a baseline and show how far ne w waterblocks have come?

#Rotor · 02-16-2004, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildfrogman

Hey, until the gpm goes past 1gpm the #rotor block is better performing than the maze4

It follows nearly the same performance curve as the swiftech but the #rotor seems ~1/1.5C higher which isnt bad at all.

jip The grid is optimized for 40x40mm TEC use.... So I did not expect anything Stellar, I'm actually pleasantly surprised at that Graph.

and I had that kinda performance since almost 4 years ago.... Guess that means I'll have to pull my head out my ass and get some development going again...

joemac · 02-17-2004, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #Rotor

jip The grid is optimized for 40x40mm TEC use....

Hehe That was my goal to make an optimized T.E.C block.
Ph I am wondering with all these blocks that you are testing have you noticed or learned anything new that you did not know in the past about block testing and or performance? If so would you share the information? And are you taking pictures to post when the reviews are posted.

WAJ_UK · 02-17-2004, 05:47 AM

PH a few quick questions

Is delta T measured in degrees c?

Also when measuring my block compared to the RBX it is just over 2 degrees c worse with respect to the water temperature but almost identical with respect to the air temperature. I guess this means that the radiator is the limit to performance even though it is quite a large heatercore has anyone else experienced anything like this?

#Rotor · 02-17-2004, 03:10 PM

Delta T or Delta anything, for that matter.... is calculated and is always in the unit of measure for the two values in the calculation.
as in 11 apples - 01 apple = 10 apples.... that kinda thing....

it can not be apples - oranges = mangos...... or some such cleverness

that don't work...

02-09-2004, 10:27 AM	#1
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Newer Test Results I think some of you have seen these by now, but I figured I'd go ahead and post them for everyone. I am waiting on mfgr comments to finish the reviews; Joe said he'd post them on Sunday when he got back in town from work. Anyway here are the results for the Dangerden Maze4 and the Swiftech MCW5000-A: Earlier Swiftech results were using older springs (presumably weaker). With the newest springs the MCW5000-A looks pretty good at lower flow rates (such as you'd see with multiple blocks or that 3/8" tubing that Swiftech likes). Their strategy for cooling system design makes a lot more sense to me now. The Maze4 is less restrictive than most of the other waterblocks and does reasonably well at high flow rates. I wouldn't recommend it with anything less than a Mag3/MCP600 though and I wouldn't use it in a loop where multiple blocks are lowering flow rate below 2GPM. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

02-09-2004, 11:06 PM	#3
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	jaydee: That's called "real data". Not statistically significant (note the error bars). I just finished installing the aquajoe block and promptly had to pull it because of a leak. I plumbed in #rotor's block in the mean time; should start testing that one tomorrow __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

02-10-2004, 12:31 AM	#4
dacooltech Pro/Vendor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 267	looks great pH... the new springs made quite a big difference (around 2C?) as it seems ,compared to your prelim test results with the older springs __________________ www.cooltechnica.com

02-10-2004, 08:05 AM	#6
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	On Sunday night I installed all the mounting hardware for the aquajoe but didn't plumb the block into the loop. Last night I did so and the block was leaking around the barbs. Everything's so tight in that area with 1/2" thickwall hose that I am not completely sure if it's a leak between hose and barb or a leak from barb to block. The barbs weren't even completely fingertight (but they were taped up) so I dunno. At any rate the leak occurred before I had even mounted the block onto my system and so no harm. I'll definitely get the problem solved and then test the aquajoe out. It isn't a big deal and could very well have been that my hose was a little expanded from going on and off 4-5 other blocks. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

02-10-2004, 11:28 PM	#7
nikhsub1 c00ling p00n Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: L.A. Posts: 758	Not to rush you pHaestus but when are we going to see the original WW data? This is what I am most interested in. Did D-Tek live up to the original __________________ :-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-: E6700 @ 3.65Ghz / P5W DH Deluxe / 2GB 667 TeamGroup / 1900XTX PC Power & Cooling Turbo 510 Deluxe Mountain Mods U2-UFO Cube Storm G5 --> MP-01 --> PA 120.3 --> 2x DDC Ultras in Series --> Custom Clear Res "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity." 1,223,460+ Ghz Folding@Home aNonForums :-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:

02-09-2004, 07:46 PM	#2
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	That is some wierd points on that MCW5000-A? Why does it do sligtly better at 1.25GMP than 1.5GPM? Other than that it it performs very much like I thought it would. I wasn't expecting more flow rate to significantly increase performace as the other one's do because of the design.

02-11-2004, 08:35 AM	#8
Apocalipsis Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: Spain Posts: 15	In the same line it will be good to see results from MCW5002 block. Just to see real improvements over the MCW5000. __________________ Comments from a 226w pelt: "Fear me, for I have the power to destroy you." Rig: Hydor L40 (5/8"Out) - Nissan Vannette Heatercore (5/8"In & 1/2"Out) - Cascade WB - Swiftech MCW50-T

02-11-2004, 09:25 AM	#9
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	The MCW5000-A and the MCW5002 perform identically as a function of flow rate. The difference is in their flow resistance only. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

02-11-2004, 11:33 AM	#11
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	The original MCW5000 had a top that allowed the bulk of the water to avoid the pins. Bill's design change was the "dropped deck" top that forces water to actually go through the copper pins of the base. That modification is the MCW5000-A. The MCW5002 is the same MCW5000-A design with the 1/2" push in fittings replaced with 3/8" NPT threads for hose barbs. I think anyway __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

02-11-2004, 11:55 AM	#12
Les Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Wigan UK Posts: 929	Ta ,sounds right.

02-11-2004, 12:26 PM	#13
Apocalipsis Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: Spain Posts: 15	Ok thx, didn't know that. __________________ Comments from a 226w pelt: "Fear me, for I have the power to destroy you." Rig: Hydor L40 (5/8"Out) - Nissan Vannette Heatercore (5/8"In & 1/2"Out) - Cascade WB - Swiftech MCW50-T

02-11-2004, 02:46 PM	#14
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Heh, Danger Den is gonna think you're out to get them pH. First ya point out the mount issue with the RBX & now the Maze 4 comes in second to the Swifty MCW5000A. Glad to see more testing from you so soon, great job pH! We really do need a toasting smilie here Joe. I look forward to reading the complete review!

02-11-2004, 03:11 PM	#15
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	I have no interest in angering Dangerden; Jeremy seems like a nice guy and has been very helpful to this site for a long time. I was actually surprised that the Maze4 does so well; roughly 2.5-3C worse than an RBX at the same flow rate (and less restrictive so it should have a higher overall flow rate). Not bad really. I don't completely follow their design strategy with the Maze4 or the RBX though; it seems like they are tuning the blocks for larger pumps than most people use at the expense of performance at lower flow rates (which most people have). Swiftech's approach seems entirely sensible given they use 3/8" hose and push multiple blocks/multiple smaller radiators for complete systems. This means though that people who are only cooling CPUs with decent pumps and lower resistance loops could do better (Whitewater or RBX) __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

02-13-2004, 10:47 PM	#16
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	I'll finish testing the #rotor block tonight and probably finish writing up the Maze4 review as well. That leaves tomorrow/Sunday for the original Whitewater (I hear your pleas Nikhsub1). Not 100% sure I'll finish that testing before I go out of town for a week but I'll do my best. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

02-15-2004, 11:45 PM	#17
Wildfrogman Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: USA Posts: 31	Looks like the maze4 really needs a high flow system to perform great from the graph. I am looking forward to seeing the #rotor block's performance in your review also.

02-16-2004, 04:44 AM	#19
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	http://phaestus.procooling.com/temp/secrate.jpg shhh don't tell anyone I posted that. About to catch a flight; be back this afternoon from Wisconsin __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

02-16-2004, 03:53 PM	#21
Wildfrogman Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: USA Posts: 31	Hey, until the gpm goes past 1gpm the #rotor block is better performing than the maze4 It follows nearly the same performance curve as the swiftech but the #rotor seems ~1/1.5C higher which isnt bad at all. I have an idea, how about testing the dtek TC-4 v2~Spiral aluminum top waterblocks since dtek dropped the price to like $25. I have seen many people wanting to know how those perform compared to the newer blocks because of the new low price. I really havnt seen many reviews of the TC-4 v2 compared to many other blocks either It may become much more popular because of the price and people remembering back in the day the TC-4 was a bit better than the Spiral...atleast thats what I remember. Testing blocks takes alot of time and I can understand if it takes a while but testing those older blocks will show sort of a baseline and show how far ne w waterblocks have come? Last edited by Wildfrogman; 02-16-2004 at 04:04 PM.

02-17-2004, 05:47 AM	#24
WAJ_UK Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sussex Posts: 109	PH a few quick questions Is delta T measured in degrees c? Also when measuring my block compared to the RBX it is just over 2 degrees c worse with respect to the water temperature but almost identical with respect to the air temperature. I guess this means that the radiator is the limit to performance even though it is quite a large heatercore has anyone else experienced anything like this?

02-17-2004, 03:10 PM	#25
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	Delta T or Delta anything, for that matter.... is calculated and is always in the unit of measure for the two values in the calculation. as in 11 apples - 01 apple = 10 apples.... that kinda thing.... it can not be apples - oranges = mangos...... or some such cleverness that don't work... __________________ There is no Spoon....

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