Issues with Vantec fan controllers?

pHaestus · 01-15-2003, 08:04 PM

http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...hreadid=937559

Seems like more of them are catching fire than one would expect...

bigben2k · 01-16-2003, 09:07 AM

The problem seems to come from an underpowered output (or overpowered fans!

If you get this product, make sure than you understand the curent/power limits.

From what I've seen, it's good for one fan only, and not a heavy one either.

Raccoon · 01-16-2003, 09:08 AM

Isnt that kind of useless then, considering that it has 4 controllers, which would mean 4 fans. Also, who the heck needs to turn down a fan that is not super powered?

pHaestus · 01-16-2003, 09:11 AM

It is my understanding that Vantec ships them without mention of the specs and limits.

bigben2k · 01-16-2003, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Raccoon
Isnt that kind of useless then, considering that it has 4 controllers, which would mean 4 fans. Also, who the heck needs to turn down a fan that is not super powered?

That would indeed be 1 small/low power fan per channel.

Yeah, kinda pointless... Hopefully Brian's module will be better!

Brians256 · 01-17-2003, 01:59 PM

Well, the unit I'm working with has a 5-amp fuse on it by default, and that's being too conservative. Maybe that gives you an idea of the capability of their design.

Aardil has gotten something good going, but it still needs some work (working with all fan types is the problem right now).

bigben2k · 01-17-2003, 02:10 PM

A Delta AFB1212SHE would need 1.05 amps.

http://www.deltaww.com/products/dcfa...FB12012038.pdf

but that's one of Delta's most powerful fan. You should still be OK.

Their blowers can easily exceed that though...

bigben2k · 01-17-2003, 02:44 PM

I found a review of the Nexus NXP-201 here:
http://www.subzerotech.com/index.php...y&id=82&page=1

It looks like it's spec'd for 18 watts per channel... The website says "15 to 18" per channel, so that's 1.25 amps, easy.

If it burns, it must have a design flaw?

Joe · 01-17-2003, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
A Delta AFB1212SHE would need 1.05 amps.

http://www.deltaww.com/products/dcfa...FB12012038.pdf

but that's one of Delta's most powerful fan. You should still be OK.

Their blowers can easily exceed that though...

Umm I got a 60mm Delta that pulls 1.2Amp.

( their highest speed 60mm)

Aardil · 03-04-2003, 12:38 AM

Well we are in the final stretch, The final protype is complete and waiting to hear from Brian to find out if he wants this proto type or wait a bit longer and test the final product.
Stay tuned for more
Aardil

Brians256 · 03-04-2003, 04:12 PM

Proto is fine. I wouldn't want it to clash with my current computer case when I take pictures!

pokpok · 03-04-2003, 04:17 PM

overclockers.com forums had a fix for it

something with one of the screws (i think 4th channel screw) was touching one of the leads on the PCB. the fix was putting some sort of non conductive thing inbetween it.

ill pull the link for you guys

TerraMex · 03-04-2003, 04:33 PM

If you guys paid attention to the Oc-Forums , the units have a flaw in the design. One of the screws makes contact with the circuit board , and because the screw connects a metal part to the casing, and the casing to the computer case, wich is connected to the ground... it can do some damage.

Here's a picture, mine had the same problem , but because i'm not using him right now , and it was never bolted to the pc case, i havent had any issues with escape currents. It was always on the outside of the midi case (only 3 slots), i think i got lucky

.

Althou there is a layer of lacquer , it seems that it isnt enough to avoid the contact.

Problem 2 :

As far as i know, a normal fan, when the voltage is reduced, the consumed current goes up due to the rotor trying to compensate the voltage drop. Thus, with an 1 amp fan, in low "burn" it can use almost the double of the standard current at 12v.

So lets say, 1 A per fan (a standard fan 0.5 A at 12v), at 7v, giving some margin, 8W. P=VxI . So 2 fans per channel, but not very powerfull fans .

If you stick 2x 1Amp (12v) fans in there, it barely holds up, or goes fireworky on you

.

Brians256 · 03-05-2003, 06:23 PM

Two things:

1) Screws need to not short out the board, duh! The last pictures I saw of Aardil's design don't have this problem, thankfully.

2) Overcurrent protection is a very basic design issue. Has Vantec not yet heard of the fuse? Works really well even when you accidentally short out the board while you use scope probes.

Better to replace a ten cent fuse than a sixty dollar board. Of course, Radio Shack sells a ten cent fuse for a dollar, but that's a different issue.

TerraMex · 03-05-2003, 07:43 PM

Fuses cost money, and it would make the pcb larger, wich costs more money.

I think vantec was optimistic in their product . "Oh yeah, they're gonna connect ONE fan per channel , one of those 3W pc fans..." . Right. Of course, some people like to have it bigger and better, and stick lots'o'powerful fans there and the thing just doesnt work that way. Want something decent... DIY.

I had a 3Amp PWM going but something wasnt right, i just couldnt get the exact timing with the 555 and the darn thing just didnt ajust the time delta. Because i got the Vantec, its "abandoned" in one of my drawers... maybe i should give it another try.

Aardil · 03-05-2003, 10:29 PM

Latest proto ( I think Final proto-type is in mail to you Brian, you should get it no later than Monday.
Aardil

Brians256 · 03-06-2003, 11:48 AM

Fuses do cost money, but I'm surprised they let a design out the door without that precaution. It's a product waiting for a lawsuit, at least in the lawsuit-happy society of the USA (shameful but true). It is very much like not having a fuse in a PSU. A fire hazard is not a good thing.

RoboTech · 03-07-2003, 08:17 PM

I bought two units about six weeks ago and they both completely quit within a minute...

RMAd them for a refund.

After reading around decided to order two more from a different vender. Rec'd them last week and tested both with four 120mm Delta SHEs - both worked fine for several hours. Good speed control, everything.

Then I started using just two fans and things went down hill fast. With a fan on #1 and #3, they came up full speed - and no speed control??? Disconnected #3 and then #1 by itself had control. Re-connected #3 and both had speed control. Shut down, moved fans to #2 and #4 and no speed control. Now it doesn't matter what channel I put the fans on - no speed control. And #1 is dead - nothing.

And it's not the front screw shorting a trace - I took them out on both units before I started testing.

I'm thru messing with these things!

Pug · 03-19-2003, 06:26 AM

By coincidence, shortly after reading this thread, I received an email from Vantec.

In my reply, I included this line, directing them to this very thread

Quote:

I did have a couple of reservations when I read this thread at the Pro-Forums http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=5501 but I trust you are working to address this issue.

Their response was as follows

Quote:

Due to the factory problem, I am afraid to tell you that the words in the forums are real but thats ONLY happen on our first shippment, now every of the RMA has been recall and have provide all problem fixed fan controller, so theres no more problem or manufacturer issue on the newer shippment. I do hope the past forum won't affect our relationship and please feel free to let me know for any further questions or inquiry. Thank you for your follow up and I am looking forward to hear from you soon.

RoboTech · 03-19-2003, 07:15 AM

Yeah, I was hoping that was the case when I ordered two more - but sadly no. Four bad ones in two months is enough for me...

Brians256 · 03-21-2003, 02:40 PM

Well, frankly, I'd love to see Vantec come out with a solution to their problems. In general, they are a good company with good products. It's just that I'm so surprised that they would allow a non-fused power controller out the door.

Please, please make a rev 2, Vantec! Put a thirty five cent fuse in there and make people safe.

As for the bad problems with immediate failures, that's just plain odd. Perhaps you got some old stock. Not much Vantec can do (except replace failed units) when their manufacturing partner messes up.

Good news though. Aardil's fan controller looks good although it fits a bit different need (more functionality and less beautiful LEDs and chrome). Preview should be done SOON. Trying to get it done along with taxes, fixing family vehicles and getting other home-tasks done.

ouikikazz · 03-25-2003, 09:02 PM

i personally haven't seen my unit catch fire yet, although my fans are somewhat low end except for the one tornado on the 4th channel. I have 3 generic 80mm fans and on tornado on da cpu and the unit is operating quite fine

Brians256 · 03-26-2003, 05:06 PM

Catch fire? It probably won't! But, the key is that it could be working marginally (i.e. hot) and then fail when you aren't watching. When it fails, then your whole computer could fail in a nicely dramatic manner.

Don't get me wrong! The Vantec unit works just fine if you know how to avoid overload (and if you don't get one of those units that failed right out of the box).

01-17-2003, 02:10 PM	#7
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	A Delta AFB1212SHE would need 1.05 amps. http://www.deltaww.com/products/dcfa...FB12012038.pdf but that's one of Delta's most powerful fan. You should still be OK. Their blowers can easily exceed that though... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

01-17-2003, 02:44 PM	#8
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I found a review of the Nexus NXP-201 here: http://www.subzerotech.com/index.php...y&id=82&page=1 It looks like it's spec'd for 18 watts per channel... The website says "15 to 18" per channel, so that's 1.25 amps, easy. If it burns, it must have a design flaw? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

03-04-2003, 12:38 AM	#10
Aardil Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 174	Fan Controler Well we are in the final stretch, The final protype is complete and waiting to hear from Brian to find out if he wants this proto type or wait a bit longer and test the final product. Stay tuned for more Aardil

03-04-2003, 04:33 PM	#13
TerraMex Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portugal, Europe Posts: 870	my 0.02 cents If you guys paid attention to the Oc-Forums , the units have a flaw in the design. One of the screws makes contact with the circuit board , and because the screw connects a metal part to the casing, and the casing to the computer case, wich is connected to the ground... it can do some damage. Here's a picture, mine had the same problem , but because i'm not using him right now , and it was never bolted to the pc case, i havent had any issues with escape currents. It was always on the outside of the midi case (only 3 slots), i think i got lucky . Althou there is a layer of lacquer , it seems that it isnt enough to avoid the contact. Problem 2 : As far as i know, a normal fan, when the voltage is reduced, the consumed current goes up due to the rotor trying to compensate the voltage drop. Thus, with an 1 amp fan, in low "burn" it can use almost the double of the standard current at 12v. So lets say, 1 A per fan (a standard fan 0.5 A at 12v), at 7v, giving some margin, 8W. P=VxI . So 2 fans per channel, but not very powerfull fans . If you stick 2x 1Amp (12v) fans in there, it barely holds up, or goes fireworky on you . __________________ "we need more cowbell."

03-05-2003, 07:43 PM	#15
TerraMex Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portugal, Europe Posts: 870	Fuses cost money, and it would make the pcb larger, wich costs more money. I think vantec was optimistic in their product . "Oh yeah, they're gonna connect ONE fan per channel , one of those 3W pc fans..." . Right. Of course, some people like to have it bigger and better, and stick lots'o'powerful fans there and the thing just doesnt work that way. Want something decent... DIY. I had a 3Amp PWM going but something wasnt right, i just couldnt get the exact timing with the 555 and the darn thing just didnt ajust the time delta. Because i got the Vantec, its "abandoned" in one of my drawers... maybe i should give it another try. __________________ "we need more cowbell."

01-15-2003, 08:04 PM	#1
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Issues with Vantec fan controllers? http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...hreadid=937559 Seems like more of them are catching fire than one would expect...

01-16-2003, 09:07 AM	#2
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	The problem seems to come from an underpowered output (or overpowered fans! If you get this product, make sure than you understand the curent/power limits. From what I've seen, it's good for one fan only, and not a heavy one either. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

01-16-2003, 09:08 AM	#3
Raccoon Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 37	Isnt that kind of useless then, considering that it has 4 controllers, which would mean 4 fans. Also, who the heck needs to turn down a fan that is not super powered?

01-16-2003, 09:11 AM	#4
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	It is my understanding that Vantec ships them without mention of the specs and limits.

01-17-2003, 01:59 PM	#6
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	Well, the unit I'm working with has a 5-amp fuse on it by default, and that's being too conservative. Maybe that gives you an idea of the capability of their design. Aardil has gotten something good going, but it still needs some work (working with all fan types is the problem right now).

03-04-2003, 04:12 PM	#11
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	Proto is fine. I wouldn't want it to clash with my current computer case when I take pictures!

03-04-2003, 04:17 PM	#12
pokpok Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: rsm,ca Posts: 87	overclockers.com forums had a fix for it something with one of the screws (i think 4th channel screw) was touching one of the leads on the PCB. the fix was putting some sort of non conductive thing inbetween it. ill pull the link for you guys

03-05-2003, 06:23 PM	#14
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	Two things: 1) Screws need to not short out the board, duh! The last pictures I saw of Aardil's design don't have this problem, thankfully. 2) Overcurrent protection is a very basic design issue. Has Vantec not yet heard of the fuse? Works really well even when you accidentally short out the board while you use scope probes. Better to replace a ten cent fuse than a sixty dollar board. Of course, Radio Shack sells a ten cent fuse for a dollar, but that's a different issue.

03-05-2003, 10:29 PM	#16
Aardil Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 174	Latest proto ( I think Final proto-type is in mail to you Brian, you should get it no later than Monday. Aardil

03-06-2003, 11:48 AM	#17
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	Fuses do cost money, but I'm surprised they let a design out the door without that precaution. It's a product waiting for a lawsuit, at least in the lawsuit-happy society of the USA (shameful but true). It is very much like not having a fuse in a PSU. A fire hazard is not a good thing.

03-07-2003, 08:17 PM	#18
RoboTech Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 229	I bought two units about six weeks ago and they both completely quit within a minute... RMAd them for a refund. After reading around decided to order two more from a different vender. Rec'd them last week and tested both with four 120mm Delta SHEs - both worked fine for several hours. Good speed control, everything. Then I started using just two fans and things went down hill fast. With a fan on #1 and #3, they came up full speed - and no speed control??? Disconnected #3 and then #1 by itself had control. Re-connected #3 and both had speed control. Shut down, moved fans to #2 and #4 and no speed control. Now it doesn't matter what channel I put the fans on - no speed control. And #1 is dead - nothing. And it's not the front screw shorting a trace - I took them out on both units before I started testing. I'm thru messing with these things!

03-19-2003, 07:15 AM	#20
RoboTech Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 229	Yeah, I was hoping that was the case when I ordered two more - but sadly no. Four bad ones in two months is enough for me...

03-21-2003, 02:40 PM	#21
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	Well, frankly, I'd love to see Vantec come out with a solution to their problems. In general, they are a good company with good products. It's just that I'm so surprised that they would allow a non-fused power controller out the door. Please, please make a rev 2, Vantec! Put a thirty five cent fuse in there and make people safe. As for the bad problems with immediate failures, that's just plain odd. Perhaps you got some old stock. Not much Vantec can do (except replace failed units) when their manufacturing partner messes up. Good news though. Aardil's fan controller looks good although it fits a bit different need (more functionality and less beautiful LEDs and chrome). Preview should be done SOON. Trying to get it done along with taxes, fixing family vehicles and getting other home-tasks done.

03-25-2003, 09:02 PM	#22
ouikikazz Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 26	i personally haven't seen my unit catch fire yet, although my fans are somewhat low end except for the one tornado on the 4th channel. I have 3 generic 80mm fans and on tornado on da cpu and the unit is operating quite fine

03-26-2003, 05:06 PM	#23
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	Catch fire? It probably won't! But, the key is that it could be working marginally (i.e. hot) and then fail when you aren't watching. When it fails, then your whole computer could fail in a nicely dramatic manner. Don't get me wrong! The Vantec unit works just fine if you know how to avoid overload (and if you don't get one of those units that failed right out of the box).

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