Thermaltake Aquarius II---to Spring---or not to Spring

[johnrr6]

Yes----I'm a noob to watercooling----think I'm pretty good on air designs and airflow----but have never done water so please be gentle.

And----OK---OK-----I KNOW this is not the best little pump/block on the market. But I am not after super overclocks----am after noise elimination and AS GOOD as cooling on air. This SFF box will be a multimedia machine and quiet is essential. By going to water----I hope to eliminate my three nosiest fans (CPU, Vid Card, case exhaust)----and if the Thermatltake fan runs quietly at all----and if the watercooling will just do as good as air----I'll count this a big success----not to mention the modding I've had to do to fit everything in the box.

I'm putting it in a Biostar IDEQ 200N small form factor (the size of a shoebox) and the Aquarius II is small and fits perfectly----in fact----I couldn't find anything else to fit inside this SFF.

Anyway-----question for the watercooling gurus......:

The Thermaltake kit comes with springs you slip INSIDE the tubing to keep any kinks out.

INSIDE THE TUBING??? I just find that to be totally weird. Won't that totally restrict flow??? Or at least slow it down and increase pump pressure a lot.

Common sense here is telling me to either not use the springs and/or get a little stiffer tubing.

The springs will create furrows inside the tubing and having grown up in Iowa-----running across a plowed field is a heck of a lot tougher than running across a nice smooth field. I'm no watercooling engineer----but seems to me that the same would hold true with springs inside tubing.

Thanks for any help/suggestions.

John

[pHaestus]

You are right; these are bad for flow rates. Swiftech uses them in some tight bends as well; perhaps Bill has estimates on pressure drop...

[j813]

Have you bought it already?
Why not make your own?
This is one good place to know how to DIY. Search and Create.
Think it's more cheaper also.
Maybe buy a 2nd hand or cheap one here?

[killernoodle]

Can the tubes take the corners without the springs in there? If so, take them out. If you dont mind the temps much, then just leave em in there. It isnt like removing the springs will make this kit as good as a pro kit, so dont worry about them.

[johnrr6]

Originally Posted by killernoodle

Can the tubes take the corners without the springs in there? If so, take them out. If you dont mind the temps much, then just leave em in there. It isnt like removing the springs will make this kit as good as a pro kit, so dont worry about them.

I think it will take the bends without kinking and without the springs which I was planning on leaving out as common sense told me it would restrict flow.

But I wanted a professional opinion and if the pros told me it woud have no effect----then I'd leave them in as it does give the tubing more strength.

As for building my own setup----I think you are correct and if I shopped around, I could find a better small pump and a better small radiator.

It's size that is the problem in the SFF boxes.

Perhaps we should issue a challenge to forum members and have them come up with the best or a recommended solution for watercooling SFF machines like the Biostar IDEQ, Shuttle XPC, Soltek Qbic---etc, etc.

Causes the engineer to accept tradeoffs----size for performance-----and what then is the best performance for the size available......

The SFF machines are becoming hugely popular.

Thanks for the help,

John

[gogo]

I got the same thing as a xmas preasent. the tubing kinks very easily. I have also had to re seal the pump housing all ready. I'm changing the tubing and the coolent over the next couple of days. I would still rather build a "real" set up, but time and shipping expense put a damper on that. (most places only ship 2-day or faster to AK)

[johnrr6]

Originally Posted by gogo

I got the same thing as a xmas preasent. the tubing kinks very easily. I have also had to re seal the pump housing all ready. I'm changing the tubing and the coolent over the next couple of days. I would still rather build a "real" set up, but time and shipping expense put a damper on that. (most places only ship 2-day or faster to AK)

OK----I know you guys are all gonna say "I told you so"----but I am stuck with this setup so will make the most of it......

Does anybody know of a very small pump that is already mounted in a small reservoir (no bigger than the Aquarius II)----something VERY SMALL that I could mod into this SFF box if the Aquarius II pump doesn't work out?

My tale: Got everything hooked up-----looks sweet----tubing not kinked----and my mod with the back end of the small SFF case went extremely well with the fan mounted inside, a small shroud and the rad on the outside----actually looks like it was designed that way so I'm happy with my Dremel work.

Waterblock and GPU waterblock in place-----kinda cheap looking and probably don't perform the greatest----but oh well......keep reminding my self that I'm not after superb cooling-----just adequate and QUIET cooling by eliminating fans.

Pulled out a spare PSU, filled the system and fired up the pump----for about 30 seconds----it was quiet as a church mouse-----then BZZZZZZZZ!!!!

The darn thing buzzes----thought it might be an air lock or something causing the noise----but nope----it's the pump----appears to have gone bad already.

I've read on various forums that this pump is a crap shoot----if you get a good one----they are virtually silent----but a bad one----OUCH!-----and they will go bad within seconds if it's one of the "bad ones" (so much for quality control----who inspects these things anyway?)

It's going back to Newegg today for a replacement......

But if anyone has a suggestion for a very small pump reservoir setup-----I'm all ears.

Thanks for any help-------John

[gogo]

Try reversing the lines on your res to the pump. that quieted mine down.
as far as temps/cooling, I have an ASUS A7NX-X ( I think, just got back from some Medical tests and am a little groggy, it's the same NF2 board Phasteus reviewed) my temps off the diode in MBM and an XP 2500+ Barton at stock ran around 42 - 47 with the springs in the tubing. I also forgot to uses distilled water. temps didn't seem to go up or down too much with my normal use. heavy audio editing and loudspeaker design/testing.

[johnrr6]

Originally Posted by gogo

Try reversing the lines on your res to the pump. that quieted mine down.
as far as temps/cooling, I have an ASUS A7NX-X ( I think, just got back from some Medical tests and am a little groggy, it's the same NF2 board Phasteus reviewed) my temps off the diode in MBM and an XP 2500+ Barton at stock ran around 42 - 47 with the springs in the tubing. I also forgot to uses distilled water. temps didn't seem to go up or down too much with my normal use. heavy audio editing and loudspeaker design/testing.

???? You mean reverse the two lines to the pump from the reservoir???

Upper Reservoir line to Lower hookup (2nd from the top) on the Pump

And Lower Reservoir Line to Upper hookup on the pump (Topmost)

Or are you talking about the in and out ports on the pump?? (Lower two ports)

I'm not using a reservoir----after I filled it using the reservoir----I closed looped those two ports with one tube----like the manual shows.

John

[gogo]

the top line from the res goes to the top line on the pump.
bottom line from the res goes to the second from the top on the pump.

I had it backwards when I first hooked it up and there was almost no flow. and a lot of noise.
the instructions are a bit misleading Look at fig(s) 9 and 10 on pg 26 of the manual.
I figure it uses the top line to let the air escape. With the res it stays pretty full and there is no cavitation on the pump. it's then only noisy for a few seconds when coming on.

[guandi]

Save you money, and build your own! i wish i had after i bought a Asetek waterchill kit. I have only just started building my own and i have learnt a hell of a lot over the past few weeks, and i am so glad i did. i am confident that i could make a computer, design, implement and test a w/c system in under 3 days with the experiance i have gained since December.

just jump in at the deep end, trust me, you will learn to swim a heck of a lot quicker if your feet cant touch the floor

[gogo]

It's kind of funny you know.
I've been reading everything I can here and elsewhere on efficient computer cooling, water and other methods. Going on 6+ years now. Heh, I used to leave my pentium pro out on the deck on the second floor at apartment because it was too noisey with the fan on the psu and heatsink. Strangely enough this has enhanced my other hobbies (esp. loudspeakers). Somewhere I have a stack of binders full of white papers and manufacturer info on pumps, fans, amplifiers, table saw designs, trebucets, the probibility of life on Europa.... great bathroom reading materials. I work full time, and run a part time business, I'm happily married for 5 years to a woman I was seeing for 4 years prior. There is hardly any furniture in my home that I haven't built myself or with my wife. While typing this I am testing a 15" subwoofer, updating win2K on two other computers, watching a show called 'clean sweep' with my wife, the bills are all paid my checkbook is balanced.

I still managed to find time to read the original post .

[johnrr6]

Nicely put......

Wait till you have kids-----talk about busy!

Newegg is sending me a new pump.

Project is coming along nicely-----now if I can just get a pump that works.......

What's a trebucets??? Don't think we had those in the Infantry.

Thanks-----John

[johnrr6]

And back to original topic------I think I found a use for the springs-----rewind them over the top of the tubing----not inside----for added strength in severe bends.

As long as it is in areas that don't come into contact with electrical components----why not??

[gogo]

Electrical tape for the leangths of the springs?
I went to pvc tubing as I had some lying around. It's a little stiff for that light little pump, it just pulls it where it wants to go.

http://www.trebuchet.com/
fun toys

[Groth]

I've always wanted to build a trebuchet; maybe I could finally get the neighbors to stop blocking my driveway.

As a kid I built a ballista that could fire a javelin through two foot diameter tree.

[killernoodle]

I built 2 trebuchets.

THe first one sucked... Hard. Then it broke. It was about 5 ft tall.

My second one was an awesome calculus project. It had dual 150lb. garage door springs mounted to an 8ft arm. It produced an estimated 600ft.lbs at the axle, which was 6ft tall. The sling was 6 ft long. We tried throwing water baloons out of it, but it destroyed every single one due to the g-forces. Then, we threw fist sized rocks about 2.5 football lengths. We decided it was too dangerous to keep using at school so we stopped.

It took two people to cock the thing, another to set the hook.... it was not safe at all

[gogo]

About the spings on the outside of the tubing, I would worry about the ends punctuing the vinyl tube. Make sure to bend them out and make sure they don't crush the tubing. Heatshrink may work to cover them too, but the shrink point may be real close to the tubes melting point.
If the springs won't work, maybe a short leangth of copper ground wire attached to the tube? of course it may be cheaper by that point to just get new tube.

The only trebuchet I have (since wasn't a school project) is tiny. I used an old 5.25" harddrive as the base and springs from a couple of dead SONY cd players, and a mixing spoon. It'll launch a cat toy mouse 10 ft. Treats went 20ft outside, but made nasty indentations in the wall.

Is NewEgg having you send the old pump back? You could take it apart if not.

[johnrr6]

Yes-----have to send it back----it's coming in today------gotta love Newegg!

If it makes the same noise.........well, I'll just go ahead and shoot myself....

[gogo]

Well I got it back together with the pvc tubing. flow rate is much better without the springs. The little balls bounce around the top instead of lazily floating in the channel. It still leaks. I sealed everything but the top. thats where it's leaking from. Drain, dry, try again.

[johnrr6]

Originally Posted by gogo

Well I got it back together with the pvc tubing. flow rate is much better without the springs. The little balls bounce around the top instead of lazily floating in the channel. It still leaks. I sealed everything but the top. thats where it's leaking from. Drain, dry, try again.

Got a new pump from Newegg---was super quiet for a day and a half----then started getting noisy like the other one----then quieted down a bit.

I'm thinking it may not be the pump-----that maybe I'm just asking too much from it and that pressures are too high and the pump is working too hard with the added flow through the vid card water block. I don't think it was designed for that additional attachment and that may be the reason for the additional noise.

Another thing I think is odd is that of the two little plastic balls that float and show the flow rate------only one is floating at the top while the other appears to be"stuck" down at the bottom. From time to time-----on a startup----both will go to the top----but soon-----one will sink back down. That indicates to me a flowrate problem.

The good news is that it seems to be pretty effective at cooling as my temps according to bios never go above 41C. Remember----all I want is effective and quiet cooling-----I don't need super overclocks.

The bad news is that it just isn't quiet enough if the pump is at all making noise------and-----the 200N mobo is giving me fits-----am probably going to swap the whole unit for a 200T which is far less finnaky with overclocking and memory.

I may scratch the Aquarius II and try to build my own reservoir/submersable pump. I want something QUIET!

I have an area of about 4 inches deep, 2 1/2 inches high, and 2 1/2 inches wide to work with right over the waterblock----if I wanted to build my own setup.

Any ideas???

John

[gogo]

I think you're right in that the pump probably can't handle the additional block. that tubing is pretty restrictive to begin with, then adding another block on top of it. My pump, block, radiator and res are all on the same level within 1 inch (not incl rad height). My balls still only move a little, about half way to the top. (try typing that without a grin and a giggle) I'm sorry that you have one dead ball.
As far as another system, I'm afraid you're beyond practical exp. from me for pump recomendations., though you may find an elctrical box to fit the dimentions. Don't know about a pump though.