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Unread 08-12-2003, 01:52 AM   #1
BrianW
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Default Electronics Help (Fan control Related)

Hello,

I want to know the simplest and safest way to control (2) - 12v Comair Rotron Major DC fans which use 25watts each, with one controller knob.

IE: I want a variable controller that can handle both these fans on one chanel.

Thanks,

BrianW
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Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

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Unread 08-12-2003, 07:53 PM   #2
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Update:

The fans I was looking at are rated @ 24 volts instead of 12 volts. Can I still power these w/ 12 volts? Would I be putting out less amperage or wattage? How much rpm's would I lose?

Thanks,

BrianW
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Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core | Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose).

Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 08-12-2003, 10:43 PM   #3
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http://www.aaroncake.net/circuits/supply.htm

Would this work? Could the pot be located say 20" away from component board?

BrianW
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Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 08-12-2003, 11:33 PM   #4
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Yes it would work, but, it would be VERY big compared to what your used to. It also will get HOT as it's not a switching supply.
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Unread 08-12-2003, 11:46 PM   #5
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How big? Do you know if there is any place where one could buy a power supply like this already built?

Thanks,

BrianW
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Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 08-13-2003, 01:29 PM   #6
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LM338 Voltage regulator. Goes up to 5 Amps.
Or a LM350_, that goes up to 3 Amps :

http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM338.html

http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM350.html

The rest of the circuit you can adapt a simple LM317T type controller. Or the schematic you already found, the difference is mainly on the types and numbers of the capacitors.

One circuit is enough for both fans. You can feed it 24v if you want to, depending on the transformer (but if you feed it 12v, you can use the PSU) , and because most capacitors are sold no less than 25V support (well, at least here) you should be safe on either case.

Dont be cheap on the sink to the regulator, they do get very very hot , and make sure that, or the regulator is isolated electricaly from the sink or the sink from the case. I've seen a nasty fire caused by that.

You can go to a shop and buy a small power unit (not chargers, they have low amp output) , rated for 24v at 3 Amp. But the problem is the transformer that will be big. You can buy a new one, smaller, thoroidal, but they are very expensive.

IMO, stick with the LM350, use the PSU. You'll have a small circuit, fits anywhere.
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Unread 08-13-2003, 02:03 PM   #7
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If I used a LM317T type controller with the LM350, would I be able to locate the pot away from the cirquit board? In otherwords, I want the cirquit board in the rear of my case, in front of an exhaust fan, and I want to pot on the front of my case.

Thanks,

Brian Watson
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Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 08-13-2003, 02:13 PM   #8
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Yes.

Just extend the two wires (or three, if you connect the third to GND) from the circuit, and place the pot. where you want.

Btw. They do get hot, but not THAT hot. You dont actually need a fan blowing on the sink.

It doesnt hurt having one either.
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Unread 08-13-2003, 02:19 PM   #9
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I really wish I could get a pre made one, but I will have to try my hand at making a cirquit board. I will buy a LM317t kit, and the lm350 regulator, and give it a go. Any links to a good kit, that does what I want?

Thanks,

BrianW
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Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core | Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose).

Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 08-13-2003, 04:43 PM   #10
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You could start with this and 'we' could give you advice on how to 'beef it up'.

Link:power supply kit

What do you think?


edit: Or How about this?PS kit LinkCPS1007Picture

Last edited by murray13; 08-13-2003 at 04:49 PM.
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Unread 08-13-2003, 05:13 PM   #11
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The 2.5 amp one you linked would be sufficient right? I am thinking of powering it with this: http://www.smarthome.com/3060.html . How would I know if that power supply will work with the regulated power supply kit?

What do you think?

Thanks,

BrianW
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Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core | Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose).

Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 08-13-2003, 05:29 PM   #12
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That supply does not have enough power, only gives 1.7A max.
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Unread 08-13-2003, 05:36 PM   #13
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I was looking more at my target fan : Comair Rotron 24v Major 235cfm, and realized there were two amp measurements. Locked and running. I assume locked means that the motor is on but the fan is not turning. Here is the chart:



So the model I want is: JQ24B4 which has 1 running amp and 1.55 locked amp. I want two of these, so does that meaning running amp = 2, and locked amp = 3.10? Do you still think this is adequate? Order Code: CPS1007

Thanks,

BrianW
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Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core | Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose).

Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 08-13-2003, 05:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by murray13
That supply does not have enough power, only gives 1.7A max.
Uninformed: How did you calculate it?

BrianW
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Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core | Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose).

Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 08-13-2003, 05:41 PM   #15
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Will this one do: 24V CT (12-0-12)4A TRANSFORMER Do they even make a plugin 24vac 3amp transforme?

Thanks,

BrianW
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Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core | Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose).

Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

Last edited by BrianW; 08-13-2003 at 06:12 PM.
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Unread 08-14-2003, 08:21 PM   #16
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Hehe, keep replying to myself.

Any way, I am pretty sure I am going to go with this kit: Order Code: CPS1007 , with this transformer: 24 V.C.T. @ 3 AMP . What I want to know is, can I swap out the LM350 for the LM338? If so, would I need a different transformer? Can I mount the transformer in the case? Any EMI or grounding issues? Could I use this device to turn on both the pump and the transformer? Pump Relay Switch Kit

Thanks for all the help.

BrianW
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Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core | Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose).

Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 08-14-2003, 09:11 PM   #17
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>want to know is, can I swap out the LM350 for the LM338? If so, >would I need a different transformer?

Yes.
No. The LM338, if you check the datasheet, works with a wide voltage range.

>Can I mount the transformer in the case? Any EMI or grounding >issues?

Probably some EMI. But you can use a metal casing (carefully isolated from any live). They're pretty cheap, and look good , most electronic shops have them . Or use a toroidal transformer. They generate less EMI. But again, expensive.

>Could I use this device to turn on both the pump and the
>transformer? Pump Relay Switch Kit

I think so. But I dont like that relay switch kit. I think it has several security issues, specially with unprotected live leads.

However, you can just buy a 110v / 12v relay capable of supporting up to 10A. Stick a fuse on it and "tada". Connect the 12v to the PSU and... auto start. It's what i did. Just powers my Eheim 1048 anyway.
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Unread 08-14-2003, 09:42 PM   #18
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-> No. The LM338, if you check the datasheet, works with a wide voltage range.

What about the amperes? If the regulator can handle 5, shouldn't the transformer at least handle that many, maybe even 6?

-> you can use a metal casing (carefully isolated from any live).

What do you mean by live? I will be attaching the box it is in to my case. What do I need to do to isolate it from live?

-> However, you can just buy a 110v / 12v relay capable of supporting up to 10A. Stick a fuse on it and "tada". Connect the 12v to the PSU and... auto start.

Can I use one relay for iwaki 15rt and the 24vdc variable ps? Does the fuse go before the relay or after? Before I assume.

Again thanks for all your help.

BrianW
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Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 08-15-2003, 12:57 PM   #19
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>What about the amperes? If the regulator can handle 5,
>shouldn't the transformer at least handle that many, maybe
>even 6?

the LM338 handles up to 5A of current . You can stick a circuit that draws 2A and it will still work perfectly. If your plan is to use the Comair fans dont think you'll have that much (5A) current draw.

Same for transformers. If it's rated for 5A , it can give you 5A maximum, but it wont be putting out those 5A unless you connect equiment that draws that current. Which is not the case here, if the fan's are rated for 1A each, the maximum draw will probably go near the 2A .

However, there are power units that dont use transformers :

http://www.mitedu.freeserve.co.uk/Ci.../Power/tps.htm

http://www.uco.es/~p62fugoj/supply5.htm

The problem is that they usually can't supply decent amp output (most rated for 15->50 mA).

>What do you mean by live? I will be attaching the box it is in to
>my case. What do I need to do to isolate it from live?

I mean anything that is in contact with electricity. You dont want a wire (or a solder point) touching the metal casing , which if it's connected to the computer case, will be grounded automaticaly.

>Can I use one relay for iwaki 15rt and the 24vdc variable ps?

Sure. It's a matter of wiring.

I have two, besides the one for the pump, i have a second (smaller) one for the PSU2 start. I decided to do this to prevent cutting in or doing wire soldering on them. So i change them in 2 minutes with new ones anytime. I'm a fan of "reversability".

>Does the fuse go before the relay or after? Before I assume.

Preferably before. I can go after, but if there's a surge, it might blow the relay , then the fuse.

But usually the relays are very resistant. My 10A one is, and it will never see more than 1A in his lifetime (hopefully).
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Last edited by TerraMex; 08-15-2003 at 01:02 PM.
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Unread 08-15-2003, 05:43 PM   #20
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So do you think I should stay with the LM350? It is rated @ 2.5 amps. What do you think the different amp ratings mean in the above table I linked? Running: 1.0 , Locked: 1.55.

Thanks again,

BrianW
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Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 08-15-2003, 06:11 PM   #21
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Sorry I missed yesterday.

Yes, keep the LM350 for now if it comes with the kit. There really is no need to go to the LM338. That's just off the top of my head without looking at the specs.

The current ratings for the fan are at 24V running full speed. Running the fan at something less will pull less current also. The 1.55A is if you stop the fan from turning.

About protecting the connections with line voltage on them. I would use some heat shrink (prefered) or electrical tape (eeewww) on the connections so there is no posibility they could short to anything.
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Unread 08-15-2003, 08:53 PM   #22
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I use paint one electrical tape. Works wonders.

BrianW

Thanks for all the advice!
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Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 08-21-2003, 01:17 AM   #23
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Well I got the two 24vdc Major (235cfm) fans today. As I do not yet have the power supply, i decided to see how it worked @ 5 & 12 v. As I suspected 5v is too low for it to work. Works great @ 12v and is pretty quiet, I'd say about 30dba. I wonder how low it will work at. I assume 8-10 maybe.

Another question about powersupply. Is there a way I can wire in a voltmeter into this device. I know that I can, but do I just connect it at the power out positive and ground? Any one know of some good small 0-24vdc voltmeters?

BrianW
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Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core | Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose).

Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 08-21-2003, 02:47 AM   #24
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If i use this what would be my voltage range with the previous linked adj. powersupply: SW-1933A (19.5 VDC) 3.3-AMP C+ Scroll down a bit.

Maybe 3-18 or 19v?

What about this ? Looks like it has holes to bring in the wires. I could make it a desk transformer right? It doesn't matter if it is rated @ 4a right? It only supplies amps that are being drawn right? At 90.00 bucks it is kinda pricey.

Thanks,

BrianW
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Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core | Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose).

Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

Last edited by BrianW; 08-21-2003 at 03:22 AM.
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Unread 08-22-2003, 12:12 AM   #25
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Well just to test the fan at different voltages, i picked up a universal wall transformer rated from 3-12 volts @ .8 amp. The fan would start up at as low as 6 volts, and was very quiet at that level, although probably only putting out 40-60 cfm. At 7.5 and 9 v it was pushing more air, and still staying fairly quiet(mostly air movement, and a lil motor noise). Seems like it will be perfect for what i want: The ability to push approx 230 cfm through my rad (235X2 because I will have 2 of them, then /2 because of going through rad = 235), or pull minimum air through the rad at a real low audible volume.

BTW you will not believe what a great deal I go ton these fans. 12.95 a piece... All other places were selling them for 50-60 bucks. I took the risk in ordering, thinking it may be too good to be true. Well worth the risk, as the fans were exactly as expected.
Comair Rotron 24vdc Major fan

Have fun...

BrianW
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Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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