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Xtreme Cooling LN2, Dry Ice, Peltiers, etc... All the usual suspects

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Unread 12-16-2002, 08:43 PM   #26
bigben2k
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502 is going to be near impossible to get, but if you got it...

I think |Punisher| was stress testing his system with a MAPP torch (to see if the waterblock would still cool) . I really don't remember what was in the system, but I think he had a mixture of 2 or three refrigerants at one point.
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Unread 12-16-2002, 09:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
Pfew... some more misinfo!

I think everyone knows that R134A is one of the most handicapped of all popular refrigerants. (if anyone else didn't, now you know!).

As for R290, here's the MSDS for it, ya'll can judge for yourself: R290 MSDS . In short, it's not so much using it that's a problem, it's storing and handling it. You should know how easy it is to have a refrigerant leak, especially in a home made/modded system.

I think it's clear that R290 is OTHERWISE a good choice.

Here's a link describing (to some extent) some popular refrigerants.

Here's a link for the DIYer.

Here's a fat PDF listing most refrigerants.

Here's a freeware one can download to calculate the pressure effect on some refrigerants. Here's a review of the software (!).


You seemed to have missed ymboc's point: talking to ONE person isn't anywhere near enough of a good sample to make a judgement, and certainly not enough to make a generalization.

If spending 4 hours with an HVAC tech didn't get you anywhere, well, I'm sorry! Try somewhere else.

(For the record, I post at many other forums)


I'm going to go read a paper now... and see who else blew themselves up!
Everything I said was NOT misinformation , I am not going to read your links as I am insulating my board right now to use my phase change system that uses propane, that by the way is NOT going to spontaneously combust
I also have good ASHRAE pdf's and I do not need anymore.I take it you do not know R290 is used commercially?Alot of people use R290(people you obviously don't know, because you stay here all the time).
You need oxygen for the propane to burn, if your phase change system leaks you suck at making them.That is your job to make sure your system is safe.If you know what your doing(like me) then R290 is a fine refrigerant.

I never said I talked to "1" tech, I just gave an example of 1 tech.Which by the way I know, which is why I was getting my ear chewed off by him for 4 hours about his business almost falling through.


Oh yes and for the record, I have yet to see anyone have problem using propane as a refrigerant.Go ahead and try and prove me wrong.I would like to see how many refrigeration systems YOU have built, and how much experiance YOU have with propane.
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Unread 12-16-2002, 09:53 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Baz
Lemmie guess. He pressurized the block with *mapp* gas and then held a flame around the joints to see if it leaked. HAHAHA
While that was a good idea....all he had to do was leave the block presurized with an attached gauge (I'm assuming he used a manifold set to charge the block) and let it sit overnight or so. Then check the pressure in the morning.

edit: I'd still do the "flame test" just for kicks though....of course wearing the propper gloves.

I have done that too, caught my maze3 on fire because it was leaking like crazy.Then I blew it out.
Propane tanks can explode...if you heat them up so the liquid expands past the pressure rating of the tank.Big differance there, as any tank will do that.

Punisher was unsoldering a joint and forgot to empty the system
I just did it on purpose.By the way most pinhole leaks, make a flame the size of a lighter if they are lit.
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Unread 12-16-2002, 11:37 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Natedog
Bowman- in your project thread you mentioned having to change the length of the capillary tube when you changed to from R22 to R502. Would I need to do that also? If I could get ahold of R22 or R502, which one would you recommend?
well to start with i am at home so the cap locks are off.at work i use caplocks.
i want to just apologize to everyone here.
as my favorite saying from star trek the (needs of the many out way the needs of the few)
and i shouldnt have gotten mad at anegima.i know how he talks and i was stessed.my one replay caused alot of fighting back and forth.so as you can see .................................................. .......
the needs of this forum should allways outway the needs of any one individual.so again i am sorry..

now back to question at hand.ok i am using r502 now and it isnt all it is cracked up to being.it takes a very strong condensor to handle the excess heat from the r502 and compressor working.r502 is getting to be extreemely exspensive.i am lucky and a friend of mine works for another company had a full 30lb container for $175.00 so i scooped it up.i normally would would pay around 300 to 500 us dollars depending on the season of the year.
so i would get it charged with r22.this is usally cost a certified tech about $50.00 to 75.00 a bottle but they will mark it up of couse.a easy swap.just recharge and go.
now the question on capillary tubbing.yes if you go from r12 to r22 or r12 to r502 you need to change the capillary lenght to keep the same watts of cooling.since r22 is more effecient and boils at a colder temp it take less to do the same job so you lengthen the capillary to reduce the amount of refridgerant you send to the evaperator.but for you i would leave it along since you need a little more flow to get you some lower temps

now on the r290 or propane.i will not reconmend it or put it down because of the one reason it isnt the easyest thing to fool with.and i never want to hurt anyone acidently by misreading me on using it.now i might would use it but i am a only responsable for my own actions.this isnt to say it isnt a good refridgerant because it is. for the money very hard to beat.

now let me clarify why i am putting a stance on r290 and not pushing its use.last week for instance in one of the forums i was in. i hear a young man who was pretty smart, but he wanted to make himself a phase change unit.now i found out later he was only 11 or 12 years old.this worries me.does anyone know what could happen to this yound man if he takes his dads propane cylinder from the grill and trys to use it on a hobby.for one he might just open it up in his bedroom for instance and not knowing breath enough to knock him out or even kill him if the room is small enough.or heaven forbid it causes a explosion in his small bedroom.this worries me because my som is that age and i know how reckless he is so.
i hope every understands why i wont tell people to use it.a adult is fine i have no problem with someone using it with the proper care .it is a great refridgerant but too many bright kidds stay in forums and dont get told how danderous some stuff is.
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Unread 12-16-2002, 11:56 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by bowman1964

now let me clarify why i am putting a stance on r290 and not pushing its use.last week for instance in one of the forums i was in. i hear a young man who was pretty smart, but he wanted to make himself a phase change unit.now i found out later he was only 11 or 12 years old.this worries me.does anyone know what could happen to this yound man if he takes his dads propane cylinder from the grill and trys to use it on a hobby.for one he might just open it up in his bedroom for instance and not knowing breath enough to knock him out or even kill him if the room is small enough.or heaven forbid it causes a explosion in his small bedroom.this worries me because my som is that age and i know how reckless he is so.
We should have a clause or something in our sig's that say that it is the sole responsibility of the builder/reader/whatever to follow the propper safety procedures in dealing with hazardous materials. If they are unfamiliar with working with propane, they should have an adult or other experienced individual to oversee their work and to make sure the working environment is kept safe.
The same goes for any other refrigerant. Some turn to poisonous gases when they come in contact with a flame, they all can cause suffocation if the workplace is not in a well-ventilated area, and some are extremely flammable.

I agree with ya bowman. We should make it clear that their main priority should be safety.

Heck, we need a refrigeration FAQ. In it we should FIRST include all the safety precautions. Then list all of our combined knowledge into one simple FAQ thread. It would save on a lot of things. Just point a person to the FAQ.

I vote we start a refrigeration FAQ. Anyone second my motion?
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Unread 12-17-2002, 01:57 AM   #31
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Quote:
now let me clarify why i am putting a stance on r290 and not pushing its use.last week for instance in one of the forums i was in. i hear a young man who was pretty smart, but he wanted to make himself a phase change unit.now i found out later he was only 11 or 12 years old.this worries me.does anyone know what could happen to this yound man if he takes his dads propane cylinder from the grill and trys to use it on a hobby.for one he might just open it up in his bedroom for instance and not knowing breath enough to knock him out or even kill him if the room is small enough.or heaven forbid it causes a explosion in his small bedroom.this worries me because my som is that age and i know how reckless he is so.
i hope every understands why i wont tell people to use it.a adult is fine i have no problem with someone using it with the proper care .it is a great refridgerant but too many bright kidds stay in forums and dont get told how danderous some stuff is.
Man, I agree with you 110%
Even using regular refrigerants isn't advised if people can't respect them.I am sure letting it all out in your room would be a very bad thing to do, as R22 R12 R502 etc. isn't too good to breathe!

Always respect what you are working on, and be carefull.
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Unread 03-09-2010, 08:41 AM   #32
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Default Re: Mini-fridge chiller recharge

Thank you my friend on this subject interesting and wonderful
And I want to add some information on your subject
You will find information on this link

R-290 refrigerant

To benefit only
Thanks
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