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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 04-16-2002, 01:13 AM   #76
ECUPirate
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Athlon 'c' 1333 at 1477 (multiplier OC only... haven't tweaked yet.)

vcore hasn't been adjusted, but it reads 1.82 for some reason.
Giga-byte GA-7DXR mobo.

The big fan is attached to the big rad in a cardboard enclosure that works quite nicely. (it pulls, and it exhausts out the front.) The only other case fan running now is the PSU fans, and they exhaust too. (no intakes.) All fans are running at the lowest speed, and my temps are currently 37C. The biggest open area for intake is the hole where the PSU used to be. (now the two IBM HD's are sitting there. The PSU was moved up 6", and is now helping to cool my HD's. i.e., most of the air entering my case to cool the rad is passing over those two HDs. The other open spot is the two PCI slot covers that I removed right under my GF3 card, so that helps to cool that.

I don't know how reliable my temp gauges are... I'm using speedfan 4.02 utility, and whatever sensors are built into my computer.
It reports: CPU 37c, temp2 31, temp3 23, and temp4, 4C !!!

4c??? WTF. It's about 23c room temp...

What utility should I use?
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Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan
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Unread 04-16-2002, 01:21 AM   #77
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The onboard temp probes aren't always accurate. Some are good, others vary by alot. You might want to try converting that rad fan to intake, and turning the speed up (just so we can see what that block is capable of).
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Unread 04-16-2002, 01:23 AM   #78
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My maze3 gets here tomorrow, I will give the full report along with a bucketload of pictures for you.
-Zoson
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Unread 04-16-2002, 02:33 AM   #79
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ecu, just realise how inccurate those probes are, the cpu temp sounds a little high
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Unread 04-16-2002, 03:19 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoson
My maze3 gets here tomorrow, I will give the full report along with a bucketload of pictures for you.
-Zoson
Will be waiting.
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Unread 04-16-2002, 06:47 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by ECUPirate
OK.. I've got my WC system up and running w/ the maze 3, a 1250 pump, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings almost everywhere. The hose has a very short run... I only used about three feet (low resistance). 1" ID resevoir... the only 90 degree turns in the system are 1" PVC in the resevoir. Overall, the system has very low resistance...
oh.. a Econoline heater core...

My idle temps went from 50C+ to 35C w/ the fans turned down low. (Comair Patriot 6.75" fan. ) hehehee.

ABOUT THE BLOCK... my block has the countersunk screws... Hhmmm. The bottom wasn't very flat. It seemed to sink in the middle... i.e., the edges of the bottom were taller than the very center. Also, the block needed lapping very badly. You couldn't see any reflection in the bottom. I placed 600 grit sandpaper on a table top (flat) and proceeded to sand the hell out of the block, rubbing it back and forth until my knuckles bled, literally. I went through FIVE sheets of sandpaper before the middle of the block began to get sanded (had to wear down the outside first.). Anyways, it's shiny now.
The rest of the block looked good, but this is my first water block, so I have no basis for comparison. I just wanted to share my fun w/ you...
ECU-
Next time you lap and the base is that uneven from the start back down to 250 grit and work your way up to 600. It will go faster and easier on you.
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Unread 04-16-2002, 09:22 AM   #82
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FYI - that's ~74Watts for your CPU/FSB/VCore levels ECU.

ECU - MotherBoard monitor is a great utility to use - or CPUCool. As far as the 4th temp reading - an unused input - ignore it


Jim - yes, the inside channels is indeed what I was talking about. Approximately how deep are those channels Jim?


Zoson - higher velocity flow is better for increasing turbulence near the walls and for increasing the heat transfer coefficient. That said, even with a center rib that is 3x as thick as the current one, you would still have a fair increase in size from the inlet to the center area of the block.
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Unread 04-16-2002, 12:21 PM   #83
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EMC2-
Sorry can't measure them, sent that one back to DD a new Maze 3 (replacement) with updated top and fasteners is on the way from Danger Den.

Jim
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Unread 04-16-2002, 02:30 PM   #84
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The temps may be high, but they are consistent. My PC always idled at about 50C w/ air, and now it runs between 34-37C depending on fan speed. (I did not remove the CPU when I switched blocks... I did remove the mobo from the tray, though.)

I'll run a few benchmarks later... I've just been too busy.
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my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled...
486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive
Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course
16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem
Windows XP (think about it)
Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan
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Unread 04-16-2002, 05:36 PM   #85
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Default Maze 3-1

I recieved my Maze 3-1 today have not had time to install.

Observations
1. Clear top and screws are fine(button head)
2. Hose barbs secure
3. the top matches with the block on all 4 sides ,there is a paper thick gap between the block and the top, the O-ring is well placed and secure.
4. Flatness on the block is excellent, also on the cold plate

This block is an excellent piece of craftmanship!

It is not made from cast copper it is machined and sandblasted on the top.
I do have a similar mark on the center post like in the picture posted by Jim?, not quite as large(could be a manufacturing quirk)

I will install and let you know on the numbers.

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Unread 04-16-2002, 05:47 PM   #86
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Default Re: Maze 3-1

Quote:
Originally posted by fresno12


It is not made from cast copper it is machined and sandblasted on the top.
I do have a similar mark on the center post like in the picture posted by Jim?, not quite as large(could be a manufacturing quirk)


fresno12
Do you mean a chip out of the "island" center position of the block?
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Unread 04-16-2002, 06:47 PM   #87
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Yes Jim I do mean the center Island

Mine looks like a machine mark not a "chip" but in exactly in the same place.

My camera is at work I will post a pic in the morning.

Now that I've had a little more time, I am even more impressed,
I have been water cooling for quite some time now and this is only the Second block I have ever bought. I usually make my own.

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Unread 04-17-2002, 03:08 AM   #88
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The Maze3 I ordered was supposedly shipped after the 6th of April, but still exhibited all of Jim's described problems (the crack in the lexan around a bolt (contersunk), the uneven join between copper and top, the milling defect in the centre ridge).

I just contacted DangerDen asking what they could do about it (considering I live in Australia, it'd be a major hassle - and expensive - to ship it back). They seem to be really nice in the way they're handling all this; I can only hope they'll be as prompt in their response to my (international) dilemma.

It's a shame a block so finely crafted in every other way and with an astounding attention to detail, exhibits these few fundamental flaws. I look forward to posting a mini-roundup (with scrupulous - or as close to scrupulous as possible - testing methodology) of a couple of junkyard heatercores vs. BIX rev1 vs. BIX rev2 when coupled with the maze3, when the summer (winter) holidays begin.
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Unread 04-17-2002, 08:43 AM   #89
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Jim,

Here is a pick of the center area of my maze it is attached I hope

One reminder to everyone when removing or replacing the plastic top, remember to do a cross pattern on the four screws, not a good idea to crank one down all the way then try to make the other three match

m3mark.jpg
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Unread 04-17-2002, 09:26 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by fresno12
Jim,

Here is a pick of the center area of my maze it is attached I hope

One reminder to everyone when removing or replacing the plastic top, remember to do a cross pattern on the four screws, not a good idea to crank one down all the way then try to make the other three match

m3mark.jpg
Fresno-
No picture here.
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Unread 04-17-2002, 02:00 PM   #91
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it's probably over 65kb, try reducing the image.

jaani, tell DDen you will send the block to me, and they will send you a brand new block. I'm sure they won't be too annoyed (until they read this thread and see I've pre-planned this :P)
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Unread 04-17-2002, 08:16 PM   #92
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Iwill XP333-r
Athlon 1.333 9.5x174fsb 1653mhz
Vcore 2.04
Vmem 3.1
256 Samsung 2700
Danner Pump 350
6x6 heatercore with 2 120mm fans push pull(ea 74cfm more or less)

Ambient 28.5
Water Idle (inline sensor) 31c
Cpu Idle 36.5c

2 hours of Prime 95
water load 33c
Cpu Load 41c

the idle temps were measured 10 minutes after the load test

These temps are from a DigiDoc 5 for all temperatures. Temps from Cpu onboard sensor was 1c higher at idle, 2c higher at load.
Also had a sensor from the DigiDoc ran to the back of Mainboard at the cpu socket 38c at load

Know remember my Ambient is 28.5c.

Also I still have a number of small air bubbles running thru the system.

Noticed that the air Bubbles coming out of the block were twirling in a nice tight spiral in the center of the hose barb( could this mean the turbulence is working) coming in the air bubbles were disbursed thru out the tubing(no pattern)

I like it, The Maze 3 is worth it.

But latter this week it will be a Maze 3-1 again pelted insulated and chilled

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Unread 04-19-2002, 03:45 PM   #93
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Hey all,
I received my Maze3 last week and it also had cracks. Not just around the bolts but also around one of the hose barbs. I emailed DD Saturday night and they responded about 5 minutes later (!!!). I sent him some pictures and he said he would send me a new block. I just wish he would have sent it at least 2nd day like I ordered my original. I should have had my system together and I still haven't received it (they are in Portland I am in North Carolina). So make sure to check everywhere when you get one of these to make sure there are no cracks. Mine had 6 total.

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Unread 04-19-2002, 05:23 PM   #94
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ewwch, more problems, looks as if a metal top is the best bet
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Unread 04-19-2002, 05:36 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brad
ewwch, more problems, looks as if a metal top is the best bet
Either that... or they should get 1/2" thick Lexan....

I wonder if other places have the same kinda problems with their clear tops, and we just don't hear about them?
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Unread 04-19-2002, 05:51 PM   #96
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Holy Shit Stylerod-

I wish I would have seen this image of your block sooner, no fault of yours. Thanks regardless of the timing. I think I may have asked Danger Den for a refund if I would have seen this issue.

I am again concerned. Jessfm that posted in this thread much early on stated that his company had problems with the plastic cracking around the barbs the thickness in his case was 11 mm I believe.

Hummmm .... the plastic on these blocks is 8 mm.

Too bad this doesn't come with an optional copper top, SOLDERED in place, or better yet maybe it would be better for the optional top to be this clear plastic.

I got my replacement block today from Danger Den, I don't see any cracks so far.

I wonder how the cracking scenario goes with these clear top blocks? Do the cracks appear early or is there a routine for a daily/weekly check on this?

Does this material have built up stress?
My stress is building.

Image of replacement block.
Jim

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Unread 04-19-2002, 05:52 PM   #97
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or maybe a lexan that isn't so brittle. do they even make a product like that ?
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Unread 04-19-2002, 06:20 PM   #98
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We ( www.OCPC.co.uk) pulled our products from release for this very reason.
The Polycarbonate we use is 1/2" , and we still found problems with radial fractures.
The next test batch comming is from a different grade of Polycarbonate ( don't ask me what - this is down to plastics Engineers).
I too am concerned with this, hence why we never released publicly the neptunes. End of day we don't want our products doing this:


This is a development block , thats showing the symptoms you are all saying is effecting the maze3 too.
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Unread 04-19-2002, 07:08 PM   #99
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I've done quite a bit of work with Lexan or acrylic sheeting and have found that when it is tooled it chips and cracks often regardless of thickness. Even during the drilling process it can crack or even shatter. And when working with npt fittings, you're dealing with tapping tapered threads; you're just asking for problems. I believe the best solution for working with Lexan is minimal tooling. Just drill the holes and fuse some sort of nylon/plastic/acrylic hose barbs to the top with acrylic weld or something. The button head holddown screws are probably o.k.,as long as the holes aren't right on the edge; set them in a little. Thats about all the stress this product can take.
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-R9700pro(volt-modded-water cooled)
-16xdvd/HP 24x20x40x cdrw
-Sherlock customized 'Hurricane' mid-tower case w/blowhole+baybus (case & ambient temps equal)
-Z4(orig.)waterblock/ 380gphpump/ custom plexyglass resevoir/ Aquacoil2 radiator(L.pres.drp)/1/2"fittings/
-Purple Ice/Rounded IDE cables- All fit VERY nicely in a mid-tower case with great air flow
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Unread 04-19-2002, 08:01 PM   #100
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I'm sure as well.. that the if you put too much lateral strain (IE: move the barb parallel to the lexan) this would cause stress fractures.... Which could probably be done just by putting on a hose....
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