Zalman Reserator 1 - Fanless Watercooling

[bigben2k]

He he, that's right on the money there, G_F!

But someone is buying it: obviously people who don't fall into the category of DIY.

[gone_fishin]

Originally Posted by spinky

thermalright sp94 is not stock air cooling. its the best air cooling available in the market. if you can't tell the difference between stock cooling and a thermalright sp94 then i think you can't tell the difference between a shitty watercooling setup and a good one, and you'd be paying 200USD$ for nothing (since you can't tell the difference anyway)

and if you have nothing more constructive to contribute i beg you not to reply. i started this thread to discuss the reserator, and not bash it based on what you want to believe

That review was crap. If you are going to come around here quoting shitty reviews to prop up your views, then you have a lot to learn.

I can see that it may have the potential to keep a non overclocked cpu at a safe temperature (depending on the ambient room temperature), but as soon as any additional wattage and overclock is added, the equalibrium temp of the water has just got to skyrocket. The fancyass resevoir has no potential to remove additional heatload unless you blast a floorfan at it or put it in front of an airconditioner (which defeats the purpose of spending all that money on peace and quiet).

[Etacovda]

I guess thats all relative to the music you listen to - if you listen to dynamic music (say classical) any additional noise is an annoyance. But yes, for a very small amount of money, you could make a passive solution that would be MANY times better than the reserator. Also, I bet you could make it infinately more portable too.

Does it really matter if his processor is at 30C or 40C? Okay, he could probably do 10 degrees better using an actively cooled system of similar price, but what difference is that going to make? Sure, hypothetically his processor's life will be extended, but to what extent? It will last 20 years rather than 15? Who keeps a processor that long anyway? Or perhaps he could overlock more, 200mhz maybe... thats gonna give him an imperceptable speed improvement or an extra 12 3dMarks...

Well, obviously it does to him! hes wanting to get a better waterblock to upgrade performance, with that thing? its like buying a fancy res for 200USD... Seems entirely pointless to me. Why not get a cheap heatercore, throw it on the top, an eheim pump (either of the smaller ones) and get a second hand block? If he put a 5v 120mm fan on there, hed have much better performance, more than likely, and have saved himself money...

[AngryAlpaca]

How well do heater cores work while passive? I heard somewhere that you want broad spaces between the fins, but that seems highly counter-intuitive. Also, does anyone think that they could make a better passive reservoir than that? I do...

[killernoodle]

You would need more than one double heatercore for that. The problem isnt surface area, it is that not enough air volume is exposed to the heat. Large passive radiators are large so they can dissipate to a larger amount of air at once.

[*klonk*]

Temps in my passively cooled system er pretty good, watertemps: 23c max no matter what, 32c cpu idle with 1.85 vcore (2364mhz barton) all DIY. Radiator is a small livingroom radiator - 4L of water all in all. My girlfriend's older brother bought that Reserator cuz he wanted to get rid of his air-HS - now hes got 39c on idle on a raped-out XP-1700+ and only sound coming from harddrives and low-noise PSU - i think it pretty much does the job for him. Plug and play simply.
I don't understand why ppl here are so hard on this particular end-user product, it really can't be compared to anything else than a 'end-user plug/play system'

[Titan151]

So if the primary purpose of this item is noise reduction, we shouldn't see anyone who has one installed on a rig with a ghetto loud ass power supply.

[Got KarmA?]

To everyone wondering why this product is being criticized ... consider the audience. This IS the "Liquid & Phase Change High End Cooling Discussions" forum, is it not? You're bringing up a merely adequately-performing common-consumer dumbed down product up in an enthusiast-oriented forum, why should you expect anything less?

[spinky]

all i read is people spouting thrash. bashing, non constructive = thrash.

WHY the review sucks? nope, no explaination, you guys just say it sucks, as if i'm gonna learn anything. well, i'll just become a zombie like one of you and say everything thats not from procooling.com sucks.

maybe thats why techie sites dont cross link their stuff, cause no matter how good or bad it is, if its not from procooling, it sucks. yeah, right.

since you say it can be done for less $$$ and better. why don't you give some suggestions as to how? and oh, include a bill as well.

criterias set forth
1) noise
2) ease of setup/maintenance
the LAST thing i want to do is butcher my coolermaster alu case. oh and it has to look good and not ghetto, else it defeats the purpose of me having a coolermaster case, i could have just gotten a ghetto 30 bucks case if i wanted ghetto
3) $$$
4) performance

Got KarmA? - ffs if you can't even read why don't you go back to school and come back when you CAN read?



gone_fishin - read the fricken review for a change, if you didn't notice it was cooling the R300 as well.

so far my observation
people here are either stupid (can't read) OR ignorant (choose not to read)
i'm still waiting for a smart answer.
and again i clarify i didn't deny that compared to high end system the reserator is crap, i'm talking about its intended usage.. but NOOOOOOO people here are too stupid to realise what i'm trying to discuss

EDIT:
FWIW, i'm in australia and the reserator kit retails for AUD$299 = USD$207
the swiftech H20-8501B goes for AUD$420 = USD$290
innovatek kit goes for AUD$410 = USD$284
Asetek Waterchill KT03-L20 is at AUD$349 = USD$242

[Etacovda]

With that kind of bloody attitude, you'll be lucky if you get anyone telling you ANYTHING. Grow the **** up.

If you want opinions on the reserator that arent orientated this way (read: not that way that YOU want to hear it) then go to a forum that doesn't care about performance. If you came in here, and didn't expect this, then you're a fool. This isnt ocforums, nor is it ocau.

Car heatercore - $15aud (hell, get two - why not?)
Cheap block - $80aud, silver prop evo
Eheim 1048, 600 lites per hour $124.00AUD
Tubing - 10 bucks
Clamps, 10 bucks

Price, 254. Grab a 120mm fan at 5v for good luck, it might hit 270.

This forum is filled with DIY guys... Im yet to own a 'standard' watercooling part, from a company.

1) **** all.
2) Harder than the reserator. Mount the Rads on top, or on the side, and get some shrouds made up. Or, shock horror, do something yourself.
3) 254
4) Id say it would be pretty good. And to top it off, you could run it with a fan, or without... the zalman, you're stuck with what you've got.

Jesus man, you've got some ****ing cheek, coming in here for advice, then ripping the shit out of people for posting their opinions. You seem to take personal offence to it, and its down right sad. Obviously, you dont care what we think, so why post? Its pretty sad, it looks like you've already made up your mind anyway.

The zalman is fine for people that want to just buy something and use it. I'm afraid you've come to the wrong forum for that.

[spinky]

then you should name the site as such, procooling - where end users are not welcomed, only hardcore enthusiasts need apply.

i was mislead and given the impression that this site was for watercooling and phase change cooling, DIY or off the shelf. guess i was wrong.

the problem is not my attitude, its yours. you judge before you even look.
a few said the review suck when they clearly haven't even read the review. lol what a joke. i'm finding it very amusing.

ignorant it is.

[satanicoo]

First Lets talk about the review.

A nice normal review up to the page 4. But then:

"Although there was scratch damage from the packaging, this should make absolutely no difference to the conductivity of the surface as they are just hairline scratches that the heat transfer compound will fill. I suppose you could take them out with some extra fine Wet and Dry sandpaper if they really do bug you, but it’s not a major issue."

Well that depends. For me it is a MAJOR issue, getting a waterblock all scratched because of bad packaging.

Then it goes ok until page 7... he should get it tested against a aquarius 2 or something like that, not an air block.

Page 8: Here is a proof that the diode temperature is not correct, does not state if a CPU is cooler with one block than the other.

Why?
Because althout the zalman DOES show a lower temperature, the SP-94 is able to overclock more, wich is the PROOF is is cooling the CPU more efficiently.

Page 9: bunch of crap... really.


So in my opinion, it isnt that bad of a review, althout it covers only basic stuff, probably he just doesnt know how and doesnt test better, wich is good.


Second:

Originally Posted by spinky

criterias set forth
1) noise
2) ease of setup/maintenance
the LAST thing i want to do is butcher my coolermaster alu case. oh and it has to look good and not ghetto, else it defeats the purpose of me having a coolermaster case, i could have just gotten a ghetto 30 bucks case if i wanted ghetto
3) $$$
4) performance

1) Very large car radiator, i get them free, dont know the cost, but would say low.
2) On this kit you have to insert tubes, zip-tie it, etc, same with this one, dont think it would be harder. Dont have to cut your case, the tubes go out trow a pci slot.
3) Etacovda gave a price.
4) depends of the sizo of the radiator you want to put/have space to. If you use a TIR truck one you would get close to ambient-temperatures. WAY better then zalman.

Disavantages:
-Harder to transport (althout Zalman isnt easy)
-Not... pretty.



Feel free to discuss.
Oh and best block? The swiftech one, then then maze 4. For the zalman with the small pump.
If you made the setup i refered to, use a mcp600 with a swiftech 6000. Overkill?

Thats me.

[Got KarmA?]

Originally Posted by spinky

then you should name the site as such, procooling - where end users are not welcomed, only hardcore enthusiasts need apply.

My bad. Next time someone on the street sucker-punches me, I'll be sure to turn around give him a kiss on the cheek for it.

[gone_fishin]

They did a review which was based upon their bullshit figures from a bullshit testing routine that the thing performs better than something else. Without that, all they could say is that it looks pretty. The basis of their review is flawed, no matter how many pages of fine literary bullshit they throw at you.

Did I mention it sucks?

[bobkoure]

Spinky,
First off, apologies for the forum member(s) who don't understand watercooling for silence. Engineering is very much a matter of making tradeoffs and IMHO they're making the mistake of thinking that their own particular priorities apply to your situation as well.
There are some very knowledgeable folks here - I think they're mostly tied up in another thread right now .

I don't claim to be one of those knowledgeable folks, but I have been building watercooled-for-silence systems for three or four years now (one's in a professional recording studio).
I haven't used a reserator (too expensive for what it is) but if you decide to "improve" it, remember that:
- the pump is submerged in the reservoir; an inline-only pump will not work (you've probably got some size constraints in there too).
- the system is designed to low water flow; if you're looking for a better block, look at the ones that are designed for this. I'd particularly suggest the Innovatek Rev3 block

If you still want fanless, but not the Reserator, have a look at the Innovatek passive radiators (big honking radiators with widely spaced fins). If you want effectively-silent (quieter than ambient noise level wherever the PC will be installed) then you probably can use a radiator and fan combo (depends on ambient noise) but you want a radiator with low air resistance, which means (probably) one of the BlackIce non-Xtreme radiators (either the 1x120mm fan "Pro" or the 2x120mm II - but not the thicker II Xtreme). Innovatek has some low-air-resistance radiators as well. (if you're state-side, check out Innovatek gear at High Speed PC. If you're in Europe, you have lots of low-noise choices.)
I've had best luck with Panaflo L1A fans at 5V (many fans will not start at 5V - these do fine). They are unhappy below about 7V if you use PWM, so use a resistor/rheostat or just put 'em on the 5V bus.
If you possibly can, setup your system so room air comes through the radiator - you will pay a temperature penalty if you use case air (particularly in a low-air-flow system).
Essentially there's a balance: Your radiator becomes more efficient as the temp difference between it and room air becomes greater - so your coolant temp will increase until the radiator becomes sufficiently efficient to shed the heat you're putting in.
...So your coolant will be warmer than what folks here are used to - and additional heat is your enemy. This means using as small a pump as you possibly can (Eheim 1046 or Innovatek/Eheim HPPS) and reducing water path resistance as best as you can. If you're just setting up this system, consider using one of the processors that generates less heat (my current favorite is the Athalon XP-Mobile 2400) - and use a motherboard that lets you undervolt/underclock.

There's also a whole raft of things you need to do to make the rest of your system quiet - why not go have a look at The Silent PC Review.
Remember that there's not much point spending money to make your cooling system lots quieter than the rest of your system.

Hoping this helps...
Bob

PS: To take a contrarian approach, if you're running windows, you could run terminal server on a not-necessarily-quiet system somewhere where the noise won't bother you and use a terminal. If you're running unix/linux you already know about terminals.

[Titan151]

Originally Posted by spinky

then you should name the site as such, procooling - where end users are not welcomed, only hardcore enthusiasts need apply.

i was mislead and given the impression that this site was for watercooling and phase change cooling, DIY or off the shelf. guess i was wrong.

the problem is not my attitude, its yours. you judge before you even look.
a few said the review suck when they clearly haven't even read the review. lol what a joke. i'm finding it very amusing.

ignorant it is.

The reason people are doggin that thing is they feel it is a waist of money and people don't like to see others waist money. The other day at Best Buy I saw a sales guy pushing this huge ass surge protector to an older couple. It was like 160 bucks. I hate to see that kind of thing. Especially in the northwest as thunderstorms are not so frequent. Especially when the computer it self is only like 900 bucks. I'll take my Kmart power strip any day over that crap. For the price of that unit you could pick up a top of the line system with only minimal gain in noise. Watercooling can be more addictive then crack. First you get that then bam; 3 months later you move on to direct die cooling. If you don't think this will happen to you think again. You are already talking of improving upon the waterblock. It won't end there. If silent cooling is your thing, go for it, but find some other way and post on your results as I would love to silence even half of the noise from my foshizzle. Oh and if you do decide to use that thing I have been told it requires a very special and costly surge protector.

[spinky]

lol, the thing is, i used to run a Delta 60mm whiner, which i got used to...i actually sleep with the PC about 3 meters away. then i switched it out with a 80mm fan...and it was sooo much better... and now, im on a laptop and honestly speaking, silence is golden, i can hear myself think! only use my rig when i need the processing power, or gaming.

the interesting thing about the reserator, is that its not THAT big (bong anyone?) and it looks good to go beside a CM case or a LL case. i don't have much time to invest in DIY and stuff, not to mention i do not have the tools and buying em would just add up to off the shelf anyway, plus i doubt i'm gonna use the tools everyday.

a huge ass copper radiator is not an option for me since i don't have the space, a student stuck in a small room, i barely have enough space to walk around..

Titan151, i understand where your coming from. i don't like others wasting their money too, but all i did is just discuss about it, and see if there's the possibility of making it perform better.

but if you noticed, 90% of the people who reply just bash it without any real reason as to why - they claim the review suck but they didn't read it...etc. etc. maybe they feel threatened that it may be one day possible that these reserator style would go mainstream, improve and be even better. or maybe their just too stupid to realise that everything has to start somewhere. i think when watercooling just started, 90% of the ignorant people would say water and PC don't mix and its stupid yadda yadda yadda.

this forum is called
Liquid & Phase Change High End Cooling Discussions

and not
Liquid & Phase Change High End Cooling Bashing

least thats as far as i can tell!

[rundymc]

The Zalman doesn't look like too good of an option, but your assumption of C/W and pressure is correct at a given flow rate- you have to get hold of a graph for the zalman pump, but I'm guessing a low restriction block like the 5002 will do fine

seriously though- what's wrong with getting the sp-94 and a low powered fan like those Panaflo L1's or that insanely overpriced Silent Cat- you overclocking? even so the sp-94 should do alright with acceptable ventilation. Personally I don't think most off the shelf silent wc solutions are worth it

[bobkoure]

So buy one. Enjoy the quiet.
FWIW, trying to build a silent PC is a worse addiction than water cooling. I'm trying to stick with "quieter than the ambient noise level is good enough", which means I only get annoyed about PC noise late at night.
Remember that there are other noise sources in your PC (other fans, hard drives, mostly). It might be worth visiting the Silent PC Review forums. Don't expect the same rigor you get here, but folks there do have silence as a goal.
IMHO, for many folks here, cooling is the goal, and "less noise than air cooling" is an incidental byproduct. Those who don't understand (yet) that engineering is a matter of tradeoffs between goals and that their particular set of goals are not the only ones possible are going to consider your tradeoffs, well, wrong. The folks who know this and are simply not interested in silence will, knowing what the reserator is, probably skip this thread.

[Titan151]

Originally Posted by bobkoure

So buy one. Enjoy the quiet.
FWIW, trying to build a silent PC is a worse addiction than water cooling.

Ha, I could see this. After I put in my new enermax power supply I had no idea how much better it could be. Then of course I fired up the chiller and put the ear plugs back in. Perhaps you are on to something here. You can even give it a cool-ass name. ...SUBSONIC COOLING...

ack, I just got a e-mail from PETA. They say no go as it will piss off their clients.

As for me, I have always kind of liked the fan noise. It can be somewhat soothing. Assuming they aren't too high in the RPM dept. If I turn off all my rigs (4) my place is so quiet I kinda start to go insane.

Aren't there a couple of heat sinks out there that claim they will work without fans. Some bigass block of copper made by one of those companies with the first part of the name is thermal. eg thermaltake, thermalmaster, thermalright, thermalcool, thermallychillin, thermalepidermal, thermalontheone, thermalonthebrain, and thermallyinsane.... one of those companies has to make something like that. Ack, I got too much sleep last night. When ever my girlfriend stays over I have to go to bed at like 10. ahhhh that right 10.

[satanicoo]

To sleep at 10?

And guys, its possible to have very good cooling fanless.

[JamesAvery22]

I liked *klonk*'s setup suggestion...

Get a portable radiator/heater (50$) an A/C pump (eheim 1048 60$) and a block (say a MCW6000 for 50$). Unless you pay 40$+ for tubing, fittings, etc you wont pay over 200$...

That would perform much better, wouldnt really be portable though. Plus its cheaper.

[Titan151]

I saw the other day that some stores are now selling paint that gives things an anodized look. You could use this on a radiator and make it resemble the reserator.

[pHaestus]

Did you guys sort this all out and kiss and make up? Looks like it.

[gone_fishin]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

Did you guys sort this all out and kiss and make up? Looks like it.

Naw, it's still junk for the money.

The itsy bitsy pump intakes at the bottom right next to the hot water entering the leaning tower of blue wasted space, sucking it right back through the loop. They did nothing to increase the water to metal contact area inside the before mentioned tower, except making it hideously tall (extend the same style fins to the interior next time anyway, but nobody could see how 'cool' that looks so don't get your hopes up).