Ultimate block? Theory. - Page 5

Pinkster · 08-11-2002, 04:52 AM

sweet block there brad... is it yours if not who's is it? and do you know the diameter of the tubes?

i think that would perform pretty well... has some flaws perhaps but still it it would be good to test it against a comerical block as it would give an indicator on how the parallel channel design works.

ECUPirate · 08-11-2002, 11:27 AM

That's very similar to what I want to do, Brad, except I was thinking maybe 2 or 3 (max) rows of larger channels. I think that alot of those little holes would have little flow through them.

bigben2k · 08-11-2002, 11:43 AM

Damn Brad, How'd you do it?

I'm gonna ask (again), what's the point in having the higher rows of drilled holes? I mean, if the bottom rows cool most of the block, do the top rows really do all that much cooling? Wouldn't be preferable to have a much thinner block, and cross-drill a single row (very tightly) of holes?

Right now, I'm thinking that the cross-holes aren't spaced tightly enough, which would result in a block that is equivalently too massive, and won't cool very well.

Did you test it yet?

athlonnerd · 08-13-2002, 01:43 PM

brad, GET OUTA MY HEAD. thats exactly what i was thinking as the next design in my quest. i would have done the holes like taht, but my drilling skills were not sufficient, how did you do it? i was planning on soldering a thin copper plate on the ends ofthe block to block off the small holes. do you have any temps for us?

your temps should be like ultra awsome, becuase i got around 31-32*c in my test, but seing as i am gonna use a pelt, i had to clamp the 3/8" thick coldplate to the wb, which is very inneficient for non peltier use, so those temps would have been way lower had i included the baseplate in the original desing.

dream caster · 08-14-2002, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
Ok Limeygreg, what's your baseplate thickness? How deep are the channels? what flow are you getting out of it (i.e. how restrictive is it?)?

dream caster: do you mean fins that are bent over?

I mean: my idea is to have long fins that go parallel to flow and short fins at 45º angle to flow between them to make the water spin: I'll probably use that for a hard disk cooler having two plates one over the other so fins will go in both sides of a long flat chamber. One hard disk will go attached to each plate.

Each side will be just like the drawing i made; in the upper side (plate) the cross fins will go one way, and in the other side, cross fins will go at 90º; just as the thread on a screw so water makes that screwing motion.

P.S. excuse me for not answering in several days ; I had thought this thread was gone.

Brad · 08-15-2002, 02:23 AM

I didn't do it - the bong guy did it (xjinn) ask him if you want to know more stuff about it.

Joe has tested it against commercial blocks, it absolutely blows them away.

bigben2k · 08-15-2002, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
I didn't do it - the bong guy did it (xjinn) ask him if you want to know more stuff about it.

Joe has tested it against commercial blocks, it absolutely blows them away.

xjinn isn't a member here, is he? He's not listed. Do you have any way of getting in tough with him? I'd like some measurements, in case I want to reproduce it, but I'd like to know how he was able to overcome the obstacles in the cross-drilling process.

myv65 · 08-15-2002, 09:34 AM

Ben,

What obstacles? Obviously an NC or CNC machine goes a long way for getting it done. Good luck using a drill press, but I suppose that's possible. Ya just need to do the little ones first.

Brad,

I'd be interested in hearing the definition of "blows them away". Have we got some system components, flow rate, temperature, and CPU info?

ECUPirate · 08-15-2002, 10:01 AM

gee, I figured you'd drill the big cross holes first, and then the numerous little holes. Seems like that would greatly lessen the amount of copper you'd have to drill using that tiny bit.... Also, if you did the little holes 1st, would cross-drilling the big holes clog up the little holes? (I know you could clear them out, but still...)

bigben2k · 08-15-2002, 10:07 AM

but drilling the small holes last would subject the little bit to side stress, from the big holes.

I need to know more about NC and CNC: I didn't think they could be used to drill anything to a 2 inch depth.

ECUPirate · 08-15-2002, 10:08 AM

Hey I was also wondering, (as I have no experience w/ machining), how do you close up all the tiny holes on the outside edge of the block? ....we don't want a sprinkler system...

bigben2k · 08-15-2002, 10:13 AM

You'd thread it so that you can screw in a plug.

ECUPirate · 08-15-2002, 10:16 AM

hehe... yeah, I figures you use a 2 plugs and 2 barbs for the large channels, but I'm talking about the 90 little holes. Would you solder a copper plate to the sides, or what?

bigben2k · 08-15-2002, 10:30 AM

That's what I meant... 90 little plugs!!!

ECUPirate · 08-15-2002, 10:36 AM

yeah, right. There's got to be a better way, (said the cave man, after trying to catch fresh rainwater using just his mouth...yeah, think about it...).

Besides, tapping 90 holes and buying 90 little plugs, each w/ teflon (of course)... absolutely preposterous. Sounds like you're just asking for a leak.

pHaestus · 08-15-2002, 10:53 AM

This should help:

http://xjinn.procooling.com/block%20pics/

tapping all those lil holes...lol.

What I personally heard Joe say about that block was it was not nearly as dependent upon flow rate as other blocks.

I would think that it would be a lot easier to make a square block that is about the size of the socket. The heat doesn't spread all that well to the edges of the block anyway, and it would make the drill press more feasible. Then you could just make a holddown for the top. Not sure how easy it would be to get that on a CPU directly though; TEC block?

Speaking of interesting blocks, I keep going to http://3rotor.dns2go.com/ and looking at those blocks that ole #rotor cooks up. When I get my testbed running (hahaha) that will be the first block I buy.

ECUPirate · 08-15-2002, 10:58 AM

that's what I figured...

I would like to know the order you drilled everything in... Also, did you drill the holes completely through the block or no?

bigben2k · 08-15-2002, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pHaestus
This should help:

http://xjinn.procooling.com/block%20pics/

tapping all those lil holes...lol.

What I personally heard Joe say about that block was it was not nearly as dependent upon flow rate as other blocks.

I would think that it would be a lot easier to make a square block that is about the size of the socket. The heat doesn't spread all that well to the edges of the block anyway, and it would make the drill press more feasible. Then you could just make a holddown for the top. Not sure how easy it would be to get that on a CPU directly though; TEC block?

Speaking of interesting blocks, I keep going to http://3rotor.dns2go.com/ and looking at those blocks that ole #rotor cooks up. When I get my testbed running (hahaha) that will be the first block I buy.

Awwww, and I was SO looking forward to tapping the little ones!

Ok, what did he use to fasten the sides then?

myv65 · 08-15-2002, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k

Awwww, and I was SO looking forward to tapping the little ones!

Ok, what did he use to fasten the sides then?

So long as the surfaces are reasonably flat, ya just solder a block over the top. You probably will not seal each individual hole, but that doesn't matter. All that matters is sealing the perimeter.

As an alternate, you could have a cover plate with a perimeter seal.

I can believe the comment that, "it's not very dependent on flow rate".

BillA · 08-15-2002, 02:10 PM

the benefit of flow rate is still there, albeit at different levels
the convection through small 'holes' is rather different

google is most informative, see "micro channels", etc
(ni the first 300 listings there are about 20 good ones, and 3 or 4 quite good)
- although the ones of interest are actually mini channels

this is not new, and does produce the lowest gradients

xjinn drilled the wb in his high school shop class, entertaining story

Puzzdre · 08-15-2002, 03:15 PM

I think I'm gonna try to make one like xjinn's one of these days. I'll go with only one or two rows of small holes (thx Bigben2k). The piece of copper I have is 10 mm thick. If the parallel canals are max 7 mm dia, what do you suggest for small ones (dia)?
If I leave 3 mm base, whats better one row of 3-4 mm or two rows of 2 - 2.5 mm?

Gnozo · 08-15-2002, 03:28 PM

Hmm..did Xjinn ever test that nice looking block?

What happened to him, and all his cool bong/case/block idea's ??

BillA · 08-15-2002, 03:35 PM

xjinn's getting an education, something everyone can benefit from

Xjinn · 08-16-2002, 11:28 AM

but the last couple months bill, i've been sitting on the beach drinking nice beers, another thing everybody can benefit from

well anyway, i just registered and spent the last 25 minutes typing about the blocks (there are twins) and then internet explorer crashed....

i dont feel like doing it again, and besides some of the juicy scientific numbers are in my lab notebook which i have no idea where to find, but i will

so if you guys wanna put together a list of questions i'll be happy to answer later today

EDIT: in the meantime, this should keep you guys entertained:
http://xjinn.procooling.com/
lots of goodies from times past

BillA · 08-16-2002, 11:41 AM

well speak of the devil . . .

you may be interested to know that a number of slightly similar ones are being EDM'd
cross flow, parallel flow, counter flow, square channel, round channel, etc. etc.

should be interesting, hopefully somewhat definitive

08-11-2002, 04:52 AM	#101
Pinkster Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: adelaide, australia Posts: 61	sweet block there brad... is it yours if not who's is it? and do you know the diameter of the tubes? i think that would perform pretty well... has some flaws perhaps but still it it would be good to test it against a comerical block as it would give an indicator on how the parallel channel design works. __________________ whats a sig?

08-11-2002, 11:27 AM	#102
ECUPirate Hottest Stank of them All Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington, DC area Posts: 533	That's very similar to what I want to do, Brad, except I was thinking maybe 2 or 3 (max) rows of larger channels. I think that alot of those little holes would have little flow through them. __________________ Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lifes? --Kenny my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled... 486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course 16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem Windows XP (think about it) Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan

08-11-2002, 11:43 AM	#103
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Damn Brad, How'd you do it? I'm gonna ask (again), what's the point in having the higher rows of drilled holes? I mean, if the bottom rows cool most of the block, do the top rows really do all that much cooling? Wouldn't be preferable to have a much thinner block, and cross-drill a single row (very tightly) of holes? Right now, I'm thinking that the cross-holes aren't spaced tightly enough, which would result in a block that is equivalently too massive, and won't cool very well. Did you test it yet? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-13-2002, 01:43 PM	#104
athlonnerd Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: missouri city, tx Posts: 7	brad, GET OUTA MY HEAD. thats exactly what i was thinking as the next design in my quest. i would have done the holes like taht, but my drilling skills were not sufficient, how did you do it? i was planning on soldering a thin copper plate on the ends ofthe block to block off the small holes. do you have any temps for us? your temps should be like ultra awsome, becuase i got around 31-32*c in my test, but seing as i am gonna use a pelt, i had to clamp the 3/8" thick coldplate to the wb, which is very inneficient for non peltier use, so those temps would have been way lower had i included the baseplate in the original desing. __________________ xp 1600+, still to be oc'ed, 768 mb ram, msi kt266pro2, baracuuda 4 40gig, linksis nik+cable modem, jaton gf2mx400 64 meg http://www.overclockers.com/tips835, cd+cdrw fixing to do water cooling

08-15-2002, 02:23 AM	#106
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I didn't do it - the bong guy did it (xjinn) ask him if you want to know more stuff about it. Joe has tested it against commercial blocks, it absolutely blows them away. __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

08-15-2002, 09:34 AM	#108
myv65 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: home Posts: 365	Ben, What obstacles? Obviously an NC or CNC machine goes a long way for getting it done. Good luck using a drill press, but I suppose that's possible. Ya just need to do the little ones first. Brad, I'd be interested in hearing the definition of "blows them away". Have we got some system components, flow rate, temperature, and CPU info?

08-15-2002, 10:01 AM	#109
ECUPirate Hottest Stank of them All Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington, DC area Posts: 533	gee, I figured you'd drill the big cross holes first, and then the numerous little holes. Seems like that would greatly lessen the amount of copper you'd have to drill using that tiny bit.... Also, if you did the little holes 1st, would cross-drilling the big holes clog up the little holes? (I know you could clear them out, but still...) __________________ Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lifes? --Kenny my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled... 486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course 16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem Windows XP (think about it) Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan

08-15-2002, 10:07 AM	#110
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	but drilling the small holes last would subject the little bit to side stress, from the big holes. I need to know more about NC and CNC: I didn't think they could be used to drill anything to a 2 inch depth. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-15-2002, 10:08 AM	#111
ECUPirate Hottest Stank of them All Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington, DC area Posts: 533	Hey I was also wondering, (as I have no experience w/ machining), how do you close up all the tiny holes on the outside edge of the block? ....we don't want a sprinkler system... __________________ Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lifes? --Kenny my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled... 486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course 16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem Windows XP (think about it) Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan

08-15-2002, 10:13 AM	#112
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	You'd thread it so that you can screw in a plug. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-15-2002, 10:16 AM	#113
ECUPirate Hottest Stank of them All Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington, DC area Posts: 533	hehe... yeah, I figures you use a 2 plugs and 2 barbs for the large channels, but I'm talking about the 90 little holes. Would you solder a copper plate to the sides, or what? __________________ Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lifes? --Kenny my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled... 486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course 16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem Windows XP (think about it) Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan

08-15-2002, 10:30 AM	#114
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	That's what I meant... 90 little plugs!!! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-15-2002, 10:36 AM	#115
ECUPirate Hottest Stank of them All Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington, DC area Posts: 533	yeah, right. There's got to be a better way, (said the cave man, after trying to catch fresh rainwater using just his mouth...yeah, think about it...). Besides, tapping 90 holes and buying 90 little plugs, each w/ teflon (of course)... absolutely preposterous. Sounds like you're just asking for a leak. __________________ Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lifes? --Kenny my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled... 486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course 16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem Windows XP (think about it) Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan

08-15-2002, 10:53 AM	#116
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	This should help: http://xjinn.procooling.com/block%20pics/ tapping all those lil holes...lol. What I personally heard Joe say about that block was it was not nearly as dependent upon flow rate as other blocks. I would think that it would be a lot easier to make a square block that is about the size of the socket. The heat doesn't spread all that well to the edges of the block anyway, and it would make the drill press more feasible. Then you could just make a holddown for the top. Not sure how easy it would be to get that on a CPU directly though; TEC block? Speaking of interesting blocks, I keep going to http://3rotor.dns2go.com/ and looking at those blocks that ole #rotor cooks up. When I get my testbed running (hahaha) that will be the first block I buy.

08-15-2002, 10:58 AM	#117
ECUPirate Hottest Stank of them All Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington, DC area Posts: 533	that's what I figured... I would like to know the order you drilled everything in... Also, did you drill the holes completely through the block or no? __________________ Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lifes? --Kenny my pimpin' rig: ...previously poorly cooled... 486DX-2 66mhz @ 75mhz, 4Mb ram, shared, 256Mb hard drive Onboard VGA, watercooled, of course 16-color monitor, labtec speakers, 28kbs USRobotics modem Windows XP (think about it) Maze 3, DDen GF3 block, Eheim 1250, econoline van HC, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings Comair 172mm fan

08-15-2002, 02:10 PM	#120
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	the benefit of flow rate is still there, albeit at different levels the convection through small 'holes' is rather different google is most informative, see "micro channels", etc (ni the first 300 listings there are about 20 good ones, and 3 or 4 quite good) - although the ones of interest are actually mini channels this is not new, and does produce the lowest gradients xjinn drilled the wb in his high school shop class, entertaining story

08-15-2002, 03:15 PM	#121
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	I think I'm gonna try to make one like xjinn's one of these days. I'll go with only one or two rows of small holes (thx Bigben2k). The piece of copper I have is 10 mm thick. If the parallel canals are max 7 mm dia, what do you suggest for small ones (dia)? If I leave 3 mm base, whats better one row of 3-4 mm or two rows of 2 - 2.5 mm? __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

08-15-2002, 03:28 PM	#122
Gnozo Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 105	Hmm..did Xjinn ever test that nice looking block? What happened to him, and all his cool bong/case/block idea's ?? __________________ AMD XP1700+ @ JIUHB 12 x 202 Epox 8RDA+ Samsung PC2700 512mb Asus V8420 TI4200 Eheim 1048 - Maze1 - AirPlex EVO240 - Lian Li PC-61

08-15-2002, 03:35 PM	#123
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	xjinn's getting an education, something everyone can benefit from

08-16-2002, 11:28 AM	#124
Xjinn Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Nantucket Posts: 1	but the last couple months bill, i've been sitting on the beach drinking nice beers, another thing everybody can benefit from well anyway, i just registered and spent the last 25 minutes typing about the blocks (there are twins) and then internet explorer crashed.... i dont feel like doing it again, and besides some of the juicy scientific numbers are in my lab notebook which i have no idea where to find, but i will so if you guys wanna put together a list of questions i'll be happy to answer later today EDIT: in the meantime, this should keep you guys entertained: http://xjinn.procooling.com/ lots of goodies from times past Last edited by Xjinn; 08-16-2002 at 11:38 AM.

08-16-2002, 11:41 AM	#125
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	well speak of the devil . . . you may be interested to know that a number of slightly similar ones are being EDM'd cross flow, parallel flow, counter flow, square channel, round channel, etc. etc. should be interesting, hopefully somewhat definitive

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