Newly realeased on EBAY: Flow Killer 2005

jman1310 · 07-20-2005, 08:39 PM

saw this and thought it might generate a little amusement here

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MakeTrack=true

also anyone looking for a large passive rad:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MakeTrack=true

cheers

Delirious · 07-20-2005, 09:41 PM

Its funny but sad at the same time cause the guy is wasting all this time, materials and effort to produce moderate quantities of what is essentially crap.

The second one is just plain funny

AndrewC · 07-20-2005, 10:58 PM

The funny part is that they test with blocks cooling capacity with a blow torch, there is a video on the website halfway down the page.

killernoodle · 07-20-2005, 11:29 PM

Fetty has been around the block quite a few times, this design is rather old but looks really cool. Plus it has an added benefit of being able to point the tubes in any direction off the block. Still, there are better designs but there is no reason he should be mocked if you've never made a waterblock before and tried to commercialize it.

jman1310 · 07-21-2005, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killernoodle

Still, there are better designs but there is no reason he should be mocked if you've never made a waterblock before and tried to commercialize it.

i don't know how this matters, i mock other products like Polarflo, the "Clapper" but i've never tried to launch a commercial process. i dislike the idea that people may be buying an inferior product more due to bling factor than actual results using proper testing methods

Quote:

Originally Posted by killernoodle

Plus it has an added benefit of being able to point the tubes in any direction off the block.

seems like a very minor advantage...

two major design flaws that come to mind
1. in 6' of copper tubing, 7 coils attach the tubing to the block, only about 1/6 of each coil contacts the block. most w/c systems barely use 6' of hose in their entirety. then consider that it's 6' of continuous turn

2. he uses soldier as a TIM joint between the tubing and the plate

these seem to be significant problems but if you get one to pH and it tests well i'll take my comments back and formally apologize

killernoodle · 07-21-2005, 09:03 AM

I dont think you're looking a the block like I am. I think the design is more like a maze without all the 90 degree bends to connect the segments. Looks like a 7 pass maze. And there is nothing wrong with solder as a TIM joint, its better than AS5 and stuff in this application because the coils cant be pressed into the base. This is especially good if he used solder with super high silver content..

Hes probably like me, if it cools the CPU to a stable point, then it is working just fine; reguardless of design. I'm sure with my system I could put this block in and witness no change in system stability. Temps mean nothing if lower temps doesnt really do anything. I could care less about the C/W my waterblock is getting in my loop as long as the computer runs at the highest overclock its capable of as quietly as possible. But this, really, is beside the point.

Huckleberry · 07-21-2005, 11:32 AM

I love the "counter clockwise for North America." Crap, why didn't I think of that?
On a positive (or maybe less negative) note, I do like the copper coiled look, but have serious doubts about its cooling efficiency.

Razor6 · 07-21-2005, 12:27 PM

Also radiators
image

And heatsinks
image

"All products patent pending"
I'm sure that's a worthwhile endeavour.

ljohn787 · 07-21-2005, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor6

"All products patent pending"
I'm sure that's a worthwhile endeavour.

Yeah, lol. Whatever helps him pay the bills...

RaptorRaider · 07-21-2005, 05:28 PM

Why is this a flow killer?

I may be completely wrong about this, but I always thought power was lost mostly because of differential height (mgh)?

Of course a little bit is lost because of the restriction the internal edges hoses have (yes, I know that sounds confusing), but AFAIK there are much better candidates for 'Flow Killer 2005'.

Sorry for my English. I'm always confused about how to express myself when I'm talking 'scientifically'.
Maybe in this case '(b)rim' is a better word instead of 'internal edge'?

zackbass · 07-21-2005, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaptorRaider

Why is this a flow killer?

The way I understand it is it's because of the resistance to flow that any length of tubing presents. The longer the tube and the smaller the cross sectional area the greater resistance. Also the tube being that circular shape means more resistance because the momentum of the fluid will keep breaking the flow as it constantly is forced to turn. Those two factors combined make this block a very efficient way to utterly decimate a system's flow. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

maxSaleen · 07-21-2005, 07:18 PM

The FCT has been around for a while. Almost as long as socket 478. I've always wanted to try and hook up one of these to a window based HVAC system. I'm not a fan of the design, though I doubt it would kill system flow any more than a RBX (assuming the same tube diameter is used). Solder shouldn't hurt performance THAT much. Maybe a degree.

Quote:

I may be completely wrong about this, but I always thought power was lost mostly because of differential height (mgh)?

I used to think the same thing. This is true only in an open system. In a closed system gravity has no effect on flow rates. This is because at some point the water must go down an equal distance it went up. The water "balances" itself on both sides, causing gravity to have no effect on flow rates.

jaydee · 07-21-2005, 08:23 PM

Torch test... Shesh. How the solder kept from melting is curious.

I really hope he laps those things very very well. With the amount of heat put on them with all that soldering that copper probably warps pretty good.

Of course they claim to be design engineers so......

Anyway hard to slag someone for trying. The thing might actually be worth $25. Hell the copper in those things is probably $8.00 alone.

Bloody_Sorcerer · 07-22-2005, 12:56 AM

I pity the guy, at least he's trying. Though after reading some of his posts (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...1&page=2&pp=30) he creeps me out. He's all hyped up about something about folding@home and the likes as some US conspiracy to genocide off whole ethnicities, said something about SARS being a virus accidentally produced by the chinese or something... he creeps me out.

Long Haired Git · 07-22-2005, 01:38 AM

Quote:

There is about 6 feet of copper tube on each of these CPU coolers...

Now I am guessing that the tubing is around 1/4" ID copper tubing, so the PD for a straight peice of copper tubing attached via 3/8" ID tubing is easy to calculate.

So, 3LPM gives 1.2m of head (116.8 mbar). 6LPM gives 4.1m (401.4 mbar).
This includes the impact from the entry to the copper tube, but not any additional turbulence impacts from the curving shape. However the tool I use already states the flow as turbulent (R=21,000 @ 6LPM)

To compare, I get the LRR G4 as having 0.912m of head @ 6LPM.

RaptorRaider · 07-22-2005, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxSaleen

I used to think the same thing. This is true only in an open system. In a closed system gravity has no effect on flow rates. This is because at some point the water must go down an equal distance it went up. The water "balances" itself on both sides, causing gravity to have no effect on flow rates.

True... hadn't thought about that.
When water goes up in a closed system, it goes down too.

Joe Camel · 07-22-2005, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloody_Sorcerer

I pity the guy, at least he's trying. Though after reading some of his posts (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...1&page=2&pp=30) he creeps me out. He's all hyped up about something about folding@home and the likes as some US conspiracy to genocide off whole ethnicities, said something about SARS being a virus accidentally produced by the chinese or something... he creeps me out.

a snip from that thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRFIII

-snip-
To wet yer whistle... I believe that I have found out some fundamental universal truth(s)... about rotations and poles... and fundamental forces like gravity and rotation(magnatism?:~)... that have faaaaar reaching implications... possibly a new undiscovered energy source(s)... and/or cooling and/or pumping process(s)... and possibly even a new method of propulsion...

It even has deep philosophical implications...

I can tell ya this... I believe that it's about muuuuuchh more than jUSt cooling off computer components... but it's mighty handy that it may prove out to be a new more efficient method of doing that...
-snip-

yep, i think he "creeps me out" too...

but i KNOW i want a "hit" off HIS pipe

cristoff · 07-22-2005, 03:48 PM

I had similar ideas a long time ago but after some RESEARCH and actually THINKING it through I came up with BETTER ideas... damn this dude's a tard...

RADCOM · 07-22-2005, 06:21 PM

Well someone's bought them! It just goes to show you know what you know (or have been told) until you know better

If your only worried about bling factor then it does look " unusual"
I was quite happy with my Innovatek rev 3 until I looked at the charts here......... mind you that was over 3 years ago.

bigben2k · 07-23-2005, 01:44 PM

Magnetism aside, as I posted in the OC thread, this design *might* make an interesting pumpless design, for those noise fanatics. It'd need to be thoroughly tested though.

Althornin · 07-26-2005, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaptorRaider

Why is this a flow killer?

I may be completely wrong about this, but I always thought power was lost mostly because of differential height (mgh)?

Of course a little bit is lost because of the restriction the internal edges hoses have (yes, I know that sounds confusing), but AFAIK there are much better candidates for 'Flow Killer 2005'.

Sorry for my English. I'm always confused about how to express myself when I'm talking 'scientifically'.
Maybe in this case '(b)rim' is a better word instead of 'internal edge'?

component height is irrelevant in an inline/sealed/loop system.
only matters for something like a bong setup.
This about it - while the pump may be "pushing" water up to the radiator, say, it also gets a "boost" when the same water "falls" back down to the pump. This balances out, so net head loss from varying heights of components is nada.

cotdt · 07-26-2005, 09:50 PM

You know, this block might actually be a good choice for silence enthusiasts since it kinda also serves as a mini-radiator. As for flowkiller, no it will not kill flow in a closed loop. In fact, it will do better than most of the restrictive blocks. This I am sure of. Not sure about performance though, because I've never seen such waterblocks. Any experts here care to give their opinion of the performance of this block?

LPorc · 07-26-2005, 10:20 PM

Hmmmm...

How bad can it be? Looking at his numbers, and even taking into account the wild margins of error, it still consistently performs better than standard heatsink air.

Sure, aside from the bling factor there's not much to it. Lots of designs would smoke it in a pure performance test. It's a Volkswagen Bug, and you're all Ferrari enthusiasts.

JFettig · 07-27-2005, 06:31 AM

hmm, a while ago Rogerdugans did a review:
http://www.wc101.com/reviews/FCTReview/

Jon

Razor6 · 07-27-2005, 02:04 PM

I had to laugh a little at the prototype twin-tube block in that review. It is as if that guy saw how performance blocks almost always have a center inlet and thought that splitting the flow in the middle would give the block better performance.

07-20-2005, 11:29 PM	#4
killernoodle Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,014	Fetty has been around the block quite a few times, this design is rather old but looks really cool. Plus it has an added benefit of being able to point the tubes in any direction off the block. Still, there are better designs but there is no reason he should be mocked if you've never made a waterblock before and tried to commercialize it. __________________ I have a nice computer.

07-21-2005, 09:03 AM	#6
killernoodle Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,014	I dont think you're looking a the block like I am. I think the design is more like a maze without all the 90 degree bends to connect the segments. Looks like a 7 pass maze. And there is nothing wrong with solder as a TIM joint, its better than AS5 and stuff in this application because the coils cant be pressed into the base. This is especially good if he used solder with super high silver content.. Hes probably like me, if it cools the CPU to a stable point, then it is working just fine; reguardless of design. I'm sure with my system I could put this block in and witness no change in system stability. Temps mean nothing if lower temps doesnt really do anything. I could care less about the C/W my waterblock is getting in my loop as long as the computer runs at the highest overclock its capable of as quietly as possible. But this, really, is beside the point. __________________ I have a nice computer.

07-22-2005, 03:48 PM	#18
cristoff Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass Posts: 185	I had similar ideas a long time ago but after some RESEARCH and actually THINKING it through I came up with BETTER ideas... damn this dude's a tard... __________________ fr33t3chi3

07-23-2005, 01:44 PM	#20
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Magnetism aside, as I posted in the OC thread, this design might make an interesting pumpless design, for those noise fanatics. It'd need to be thoroughly tested though. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-26-2005, 09:50 PM	#22
cotdt Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: CALIFORNIA Posts: 50	hmmm You know, this block might actually be a good choice for silence enthusiasts since it kinda also serves as a mini-radiator. As for flowkiller, no it will not kill flow in a closed loop. In fact, it will do better than most of the restrictive blocks. This I am sure of. Not sure about performance though, because I've never seen such waterblocks. Any experts here care to give their opinion of the performance of this block?

07-20-2005, 09:41 PM	#2
Delirious Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Twilight Zone Posts: 152	Its funny but sad at the same time cause the guy is wasting all this time, materials and effort to produce moderate quantities of what is essentially crap. The second one is just plain funny

07-20-2005, 10:58 PM	#3
AndrewC Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: US Posts: 5	The funny part is that they test with blocks cooling capacity with a blow torch, there is a video on the website halfway down the page.

07-21-2005, 11:32 AM	#7
Huckleberry Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Utahr Posts: 22	I love the "counter clockwise for North America." Crap, why didn't I think of that? On a positive (or maybe less negative) note, I do like the copper coiled look, but have serious doubts about its cooling efficiency.

07-21-2005, 12:27 PM	#8
Razor6 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 192	Also radiators image And heatsinks image "All products patent pending" I'm sure that's a worthwhile endeavour.

07-21-2005, 05:28 PM	#10
RaptorRaider Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 70	Why is this a flow killer? I may be completely wrong about this, but I always thought power was lost mostly because of differential height (mgh)? Of course a little bit is lost because of the restriction the internal edges hoses have (yes, I know that sounds confusing), but AFAIK there are much better candidates for 'Flow Killer 2005'. Sorry for my English. I'm always confused about how to express myself when I'm talking 'scientifically'. Maybe in this case '(b)rim' is a better word instead of 'internal edge'?

07-21-2005, 08:23 PM	#13
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Torch test... Shesh. How the solder kept from melting is curious. I really hope he laps those things very very well. With the amount of heat put on them with all that soldering that copper probably warps pretty good. Of course they claim to be design engineers so...... Anyway hard to slag someone for trying. The thing might actually be worth $25. Hell the copper in those things is probably $8.00 alone.

07-22-2005, 12:56 AM	#14
Bloody_Sorcerer Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Near frozenCPU Posts: 55	I pity the guy, at least he's trying. Though after reading some of his posts (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...1&page=2&pp=30) he creeps me out. He's all hyped up about something about folding@home and the likes as some US conspiracy to genocide off whole ethnicities, said something about SARS being a virus accidentally produced by the chinese or something... he creeps me out.

07-22-2005, 06:21 PM	#19
RADCOM Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK Posts: 31	Well someone's bought them! It just goes to show you know what you know (or have been told) until you know better If your only worried about bling factor then it does look " unusual" I was quite happy with my Innovatek rev 3 until I looked at the charts here......... mind you that was over 3 years ago.

07-26-2005, 10:20 PM	#23
LPorc Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 66	Hmmmm... How bad can it be? Looking at his numbers, and even taking into account the wild margins of error, it still consistently performs better than standard heatsink air. Sure, aside from the bling factor there's not much to it. Lots of designs would smoke it in a pure performance test. It's a Volkswagen Bug, and you're all Ferrari enthusiasts.

07-27-2005, 06:31 AM	#24
JFettig Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND Posts: 504	hmm, a while ago Rogerdugans did a review: http://www.wc101.com/reviews/FCTReview/ Jon

07-27-2005, 02:04 PM	#25
Razor6 Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 192	I had to laugh a little at the prototype twin-tube block in that review. It is as if that guy saw how performance blocks almost always have a center inlet and thought that splitting the flow in the middle would give the block better performance.

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