DDC Plus

[stev]

Danger Den has the DDC PLUS pumps in stock. However, their website page isn't fully up to date yet. They had update the pump watts and the pump enlarge picture, but didn't update the remainder of the information yet. I've talked with DD last week. The Laing rep will be sending them info to update the page, along with the power and flow curve charts.

Currently, Swiftech and Corsair only carry the 10W version in NA. This is slightly over the D5 P1 (pot-1) setting.

DD is the only one currently who carries the PLUS pump in NA. The PLUS is rated at 12V@18W, 1.5A, 720LPH. This is close to the D5 P3 setting.

The flow would be higher, if the Lee "ROBOTECH" Garbutt mod is done. It should place the pump into the range between the P4 to P5 setting found on the D5. This is not bad for 3/8" (9.5~10mm) size fittings.

Stev

[snowwie]

DDC Plus, eh?

is there a chart comparing pressure/flow curves?

[mx]

I'd also like to see some charts for the 18W DDC.

I've mailed Laing serveral times but they never reply...

[TerraMex]

http://www.1337-relaxed.de/frenz/pix...20DDC%201+.pdf
in theory (ding) it's supposed to be actual "numbers" from Laing (not mine).

if so, two ddc > one ddc+

[masocr79]

hey, i'd like like to see some kind of press / flow ranking to compare the following (dream list of course) ..

18W stock
18W 1/2 inlet barb mod
18W watercool top (G1/4 6mm channel bore)
18W radiical top (G1/4 12mm channel bore)

two in series for the 12 mm bore

[mx]

masocr79: Yeah I'd love such a comparison, preferably a real test /w all the right equipment so you could measue the heat dump and such. But a simple test where you use the same rig and just swap the tops to see if there's any difference would also be nice!

I'd also like to include this dual DDC top I found at watercool.de in the test.


And the dual top their developing over at forumdeluxx.de. I don't understand much but I think it's the same idéa only a high performance version. Here's the thread, and here's one that's probably related.

[Long Haired Git]

Whomever gets one, do the Cooling-Masters.com test and see how long it takes to heat up a known volume of water a known number of degrees whilst insulating the loop (so just a run of tubing from inlet to outlet plus reservoir to make it 1L or similar) so we can see how much heat gets into the coolant.
If its the same as the Laing-DDC (around 60%) then it will kick a$$.

[mx]

I've got a couple of DDC-Ultras, a T-bal and this tempsensor. I've also got a regular 10W DDC that I could test. I could compare my results with Cooling-Masters.com 10W DDC test. If I get about the same results as they did my results would be verified.

I use the top hole as inlet so the original inlet on the side is free. The tempsensor fits perfectly in the original inlet hole but could there be any drawbacks having the sensor almost in the center of the pump?



I don't own a tank but maybe my water filter housing could work? It's about 13" high so it should be able to hold over 2L water.

Water filter housing + filters.


How should I insulate everything?


Unfortunately both my stationary computer and my variable PSU is in molecules at the moment because I'm moving them to a new case so I can't use the t-bal to measure watertemp and I can't vary the input voltage. Hence I won't be doing any testing untill I've assembled everything again and I probably won't have time to do that this week.

[mx]

I've brought insulation, hose, nipples and distilled water now.

Should I use destilled water or would regular tap water work?
I do have destilled water but it's a PITA for me to get it so I'd prefer to save it and use regular tap water instead, if it doesn't affect the test results.

Which top I use and how much restriction that's in the loop shouldn't matter in this test?

[ricecrispi]

Originally Posted by mx

I've brought insulation, hose, nipples and distilled water now.

Should I use destilled water or would regular tap water work?
I do have destilled water but it's a PITA for me to get it so I'd prefer to save it and use regular tap water instead, if it doesn't affect the test results.

Which top I use and how much restriction that's in the loop shouldn't matter in this test?

I don't see DDC Plus in Danger-den web sire or google searches......

You don't have bottled water or distilled in sweden? I get a gallon bottle for $1-2 at groceries or walmart.

I would use some 50/50 radiator fluid and TAP water. TAP water in Sweden might be better than US water.

[Long Haired Git]

Tap water is fine. My app is not called "approximator" for nothing.
Just want to see how much energy is being dumped into the coolant.
I would of just hooked up a reservoir and the pump, and then wrapped it all in towels. Ensure the loop has exactly a whole-number of litres in it, and then let it rip until the water temp climbs by several whole degrees Celsius and time how long it took.

[mx]

Originally Posted by ricecrispi

don't see DDC Plus in Danger-den web sire or google searches......

I guess this is a DDC-Plus since it's the 18W version.

Originally Posted by ricecrispi

You don't have bottled water or distilled in sweden? I get a gallon bottle for $1-2 at groceries or walmart.

We do have distilled water in Sweden.
But it's expensive at gas stations and all stores that sells it cheaper is located kinda far away which is a PITA w/o a car.

My tap water is excellent so I'll use that and clean the pumps before I use them in my real loop.

[masocr79]

mx, you gonna rock some tests .. ?

was thinkin it'd be nice to see plexi top vs. inlet flooded top/tank combo .. think it's possible to put a G1.0 threaded barb onto the top of the tank .. can't find anywhere that makes them for G1.0 .. ?

Originally Posted by mx

I'd also like to include this dual DDC top I found at watercool.de in the test.

would that be two in series .. or one humping the other (LOL - that might be *hot*) .. ?

given,

1.) pump -> CPU -> pump -> GPU -> rad -> res
2.) pump -> pump -> CPU -> GPU -> rad -> res
3.) pump/hump -> CPU -> GPU -> rad -> res

I'm thinking,

heat - all three net the same pump heat
flow - 1 and 2 get better flow especially if the inlets are heavily flooded with some pump inlet res like the alpha cool tank
head - 1 would leverage pump head the best sine it has dedicated pumps for the two blocks

mx, how you structure you circuit with the dual DDC ultras ?

so ..

1.) 6mm inner bore (assuming same as the single)
2.) no top inlet for intake pump
3.) no top intake for outlet pump
4.) not able to heavily flood the outlet pump

1 and 2 could be varied .. 3 and 4 could be varied making top bigger with some sort of an inner chamber to allow more flood .. still not sure how variations would fare against the other two dual pumps scenarious above, assuming inner bore, top inlet, and heavy flooding for all ..

Originally Posted by mx

And the dual top their developing over at forumdeluxx.de. I don't understand much but I think it's the same idéa only a high performance version.

yea, definitely something lost in the translations! but I thought this pic said it best ..



similar except the second pump already has top inlet .. and the top-top design might more easily lend itself to some sort of inner chamber for flooding ..

[ricecrispi]

Originally Posted by mx

But it's expensive at gas stations and all stores that sells it cheaper is located kinda far away which is a PITA w/o a car.

My tap water is excellent so I'll use that and clean the pumps before I use them in my real loop.

That explains it, lack of tranportation sucks.

I noticed some countries have very good tap water. Taste sweet sometimes too. Can't even drink TAP water over here.

[mx]

Originally Posted by masocr79

mx, you gonna rock some tests .. ?

I only intend to test heat dump since I don't have the equipment to test flow or head.

Originally Posted by masocr79

was thinkin it'd be nice to see plexi top vs. inlet flooded top/tank combo .. think it's possible to put a G1.0 threaded barb onto the top of the tank .. can't find anywhere that makes them for G1.0 .. ?

Do you mean plexi top /w top mounted inlet vs. this plexi tank /w a G1" barb on top as inlet? Legris probably makes G1" barbs and they have resellers everywhere that could order one. But would it matter if the inlet is 1" or 1/4" when it ends up in the tank before it goes in to the pump?

Originally Posted by masocr79

mx, how you structure you circuit with the dual DDC ultras ?

I'm not sure how to structure it in my new case. I found that if I use a too short hose between them when connected in series the second pump starts making sounds. If they dump lots of heat I'll probably put both of them before the rad. I'll try a few structures and see which one gives me the lowest cpu temp.

[Otter]

Paapaa over on OCF wrote to Swiftech asking if they'd be selling the high-powered version of the pump. They told him yes, and that, "It is more powerful, but also much noisier [than the MCP350]."

[HammerSandwich]

Originally Posted by mx

I only intend to test heat dump since I don't have the equipment to test flow or head.

Mx, testing head doesn't require much: just a vertical hose and a measuring tape. Drop a hose from your roof, measure how high the pump(s) can push the water, and you know the maximum head.

[masocr79]

Originally Posted by mx

Do you mean plexi top /w top mounted inlet vs. this plexi tank /w a G1" barb on top as inlet? Legris probably makes G1" barbs and they have resellers everywhere that could order one. But would it matter if the inlet is 1" or 1/4" when it ends up in the tank before it goes in to the pump?

I think that would be better right? having a larger top inlet strainght down into the tank rather than the smaller g1/4 coming in from the side .. maybe not by much .. but either way, I wonder if the tank would fix that noise issue for the second pump since it would be more heavily flooded

[mx]

Originally Posted by HammerSandwich

Mx, testing head doesn't require much: just a vertical hose and a measuring tape. Drop a hose from your roof, measure how high the pump(s) can push the water, and you know the maximum head.

Yeah but discharge head alone isn't worth much, it's the relationship between head and flow that's interesting and I don't own a flowmeter. I don't even have a 10m house, hose or measuring tape where I live ATM.
I'm studying and live in a very small student room. But back home I have a house high enough, 10m hose and a measuring tape. (and a car, damn I miss living back home!)
I could test head in a couple of weeks when I go home if noone else has already done it.

It seems like these pumps do perform better /w unlimited water supply at the inlet. Radical_53, the man behind the dual DDC top over at forumdeluxx wrote in this thread over at XS:

Originally Posted by Radical_53

this top will be available to the public quite soon. The problem I found when testing it was because the DDC 1+ pumps needed more water than we gave them... so now we developed a reservoir "complex" to give them all the water they need to work efficiently. Quite strange though...
Also, after some other test, we want to try if serial or parallel mode works best with a "standard" setup. Maybe these pumps do already have enough head that parallel mode would give slightly better perfomance. That has to be tested still, but we're all working on it. Like the question with the rad here, trying to find the best solution and get the highest

Here's a pic of a pre-production sample w/o "reservoir complex":


I just got to have one of these!

[masocr79]

I thought two outlets! whoops

I agree, that top is pretty sweet .. second inlet in middle for flooding .. would like to see some close up pics with no pumps attached to see how its bored out

[stev]

Wow! A lot of good info has been posted since I fired off this thread.

DD updated their website. The performance charts are at the bottom of the page.

http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produc...5&cat=4&page=1

[Long Haired Git]

Given the design of the pump is basically the same, can I assume the same ratio of heat into the water vs watts consumed?

[Edge]

Git,

Of course you can assume that. Now whether the assumption is right or not is another question ;-}.

If there is a linear relation between the wattage increase and the increased flow (i.e. at 18w we get 50% more lpm than at 12w and the charts match), then the efficiency of the pump is the same and I think the assumption would work. How do the PO graphs match up (I haven't compared them)? If the charts have the same characteristics but are offset by something other than 50%, you could probably come up with a good enough fudge factor.

Now this is based on the idea that the energy that doesn't go into moving more water goes is dissipated as heat into the water. I am making this assumption and I am sure I will be enlightened here if that is a bad assumption (especially since I don't know anything and am just guessing).

[Otter]

The DDC plus has been available in the UK since January. This thread has simple flowrate test results for both the 10W and 18W pumps with the stock top and Alphacool's clear top, and, for the 10W DDC only, a stock top modified with a 1/2" OD inlet.
http://coolercasesuk.co.uk/showthread.php?t=931&page=1

[stev]

Otter,

That is a very good link. I too have been folowing it for a period of time.

Stev