Plan 2 for silence

[jackal2513]

Evening all,

been a while since i posted on here

i need to update my system and will soon go for a new motherboard combination based around the Pressler dual core chip

all my watercooling needs re-working. Last time round I developed quite a silent system but it didn't stay hugely silent for that long. I am not bothered if I don't overclock. I just want something neat that works and gives very little noise.

This time round I would like to try and go semi-passive. My idea is to first base the system round the innovatek Konvekt-O-Matic ULTRA with the 5v booster fan. I've heard good things about this (see: http://www.webshop-innovatek.de/asse...-innovatek.de/) and the long booster fan at 5v is apparently inaudible but greatly increases the cooling of the radiator. I have considered a large car radiator but it would appear that wide spaced fins are far more suited to natural convection and a relatively fanless heatercore of large radiator won't cool a great deal.

Now the plan is to waterblock cool the following:

x1 pressler
x1 7800 gtx
x1 northbridge 775 chipset
x2 aquacomputer aqua drive HD enclosures (i already own these)
x1 mosfets
x1 fanless psu heatsink

As you will see, I plan to have a small mosfet block and a small block on the heatsink of a fanless psu. Also, to keep a small amount of airflow to prevent cumulative heat build up I plan to run something like a 5 or 7v papst/panaflo exhaust fan at the back of the case.
The case will be picked for silence with acoustic damping material, decoupled mounting wherever possible etc...

I have found that when you start silencing a PC, 5v and 7v 80mm fans are pretty much inaudible if mounted properly. Rather, its the hard drives that are noisy and also worst of all this general "whooshing" noise thats produced by the PSU fan. I have a nexus PSU at the moment and although its VERY quiet, in a system with little other noise it becomes loud and although you cant really hear the fan itself, once its installed in the case this general whooshing sound is created which IS noisy. So therefore a fanless psu with a waterblock on the heatsink is a must, as is teh hard drives wrapped in noise isolating material and in watercooled enclosures.

My worries are as follows:

1. will the ultra konvekt + booster fan be enough to cool all the components. According to the innovatek forums the ultra will cool a wattage of 175W in passive mode. Thats probably a little short for what I am planning to cool but with the innovatek booster fan cooling capacity is supposed to be greatly increased over that 175W. A chap on the forums cools an A8N SLI Deluxe + 4400X2 + X850 XT + 3 Hdds + northbrige with an Ultra in passive mode (note: with no booster fan) quite successfully. I'd be very interested to hear from any users here who have the Konvekt.

2. this huge passive radiator is aluminium yet my current blocks are copper (whitewater and danger den chipset block). Maybe I should convert over to innovatek blocks ? Is it ok to mix aluminium and copper if I use decent amount of antifreeze ?

3. Will I need a powerful pump ? If I go over to innovatek blocks then they are designed around low flow therefore maybe I should stick with my two Eheim 1048's or maybe replace them with a 1250. I dont think the Laing D5 is going to be quiet enough and im not sure about the Iwakis.



anyway, feedback welcome. Would be especialy interested in people who have successfully built a nearly passive system thats inaudible.



cheers


Rich

[billbartuska]

Originally Posted by jackal2513

3. Will I need a powerful pump ? If I go over to innovatek blocks then they are designed around low flow therefore maybe I should stick with my two Eheim 1048's or maybe replace them with a 1250. I dont think the Laing D5 is going to be quiet enough and im not sure about the Iwakis.

anyway, feedback welcome. Would be especialy interested in people who have successfully built a nearly passive system thats inaudible.
Rich

The 1048's are in a differnt league than Iwaki. An MDd20RZ(T) is tolerable, not quiet. This from an overclocker, not a quiet freek.

[gmat]

The D5 is not as quiet as the 1048, but once properly mounted (decoupled) it can be reduced to silence.

The alu/copper mix is a real problem, it *will* corrode anyway unless you change your antifreeze on a very regular basis - which you'll grow tired of quickly.
Better think of an all-copper or an all-alu solution. Remember that the reservoirs you picked are alu as well.

Also i see your solution already includes fans. Why not rethink your system and include, say, a dual heatercore, with low-power dual 120mm's over it, which will blow air into the case and create an air draft. You'll hit two birds with one stone (is it the proper english metaphor ? :P) and won't have to worry about heat build-up. With the fans situated inside the case (and pulling air) you won't hear them as much as a blow-out fan since they'll be masked by the radiator.

Real good passive PSU's need no active cooling at all. Try to use passive for your mosfet's and for your HDD's (unless you have fast SCSI), you'll reduce the complexity a lot.

(PS: i do have a near fanless system, which i consider 'successful' according to your criteria, if you want i can detail how i did)

[jackal2513]

ok thanks

maybe ill stick with the eheims, maybe go 1250 and submerge it

and maybe ill change all my blocks to innovatek

as for the heatercore.... nope, i already tried that type of approach, teh problems being:

1) theres not a 120mm fan in existence that i would consider quiet, even at 7v.
2) a single 80mm fan on a heatercore will cool diddly squat... let alone cpu+gpu+NB+mosfets+psu+HD's.... it realise TOTALLY on fan airflow whereas that huge innovatek rad will cool with just convection the equivalent of a dual 120mm radiator. Add one small fan and it makes a marked difference.
3) i dot want teh space issues that rads and heatercores bring.... the large passive rad on the side of the case not only looks a million times better but is far neater and allows more space for a pump enclosure and tidy wiring etc...
4) I hate heatercores, purely by pure virtue of teh fact that every forum you ever go to always bangs on about them.


as for the PSU, you're right up to a point..... really good fanless PSU's are good ina system that hes decent airflow but in a system with maybe just one fan its my belief that they will soon either:

1) fry
2) switch on their backup fan if they have one

[gmat]

Originally Posted by jackal2513

ok thanks

maybe ill stick with the eheims, maybe go 1250 and submerge it

Submersion is not good for two main reasons
* it does not cut noise really. Water is an excellent sound conductor. You only rely on the container itself to block sound waves - at which point you understand it's more profitable to put the pump in an air-filled container :P (egg case shaped packing foam is very fine if you want to know)
* all the excess pump heat is dumped into the coolant itself, and it's not unnoticeable...

Originally Posted by jackal2513

and maybe ill change all my blocks to innovatek

This is an expensive proposition but why not.

Originally Posted by jackal2513

as for the heatercore.... nope, i already tried that type of approach, teh problems being:

1) theres not a 120mm fan in existence that i would consider quiet, even at 7v.

So you consider a *masked* 120mm at 7V will be noisier than an *exposed* 80mm ? Please reconsider seriously. I own several fans, including some very quiet ones like the Papst 8412 NGML. The noise frequency of a 80mm is quite higher than a 120mm one, as it spins faster. Trust me, i tried your approach first (using twin 80mm exhaust fans) and it was a failure. There are some very good 120mm fans out there, that can outperform a 80mm even at 5V because of an excellent static pressure, while producing noticeably less noise, and a less intrusive noise (lower frequency = more easily blocked off).
IMHO adding a case fan to a '100% quiet' system is a symptom of failure. You must try to design the system so you'll never have to consider adding a fan as an option. Or else please re-state your goal differently :P

Get a case that is black (anodized is better, black thermal paint is fine as well), both outside and *inside*. It must be heavy for various reasons (heavy chassis, heavy panels) but a good heat conductor (aluminium is better than steel). That's why i cited Lian Li and Cooler Master. Think that you can use the case as a giant heatsink. Do *not* put insulation in it, that's trying to heal the symptoms, not the illness. If you manage well the only noise producing elements must be
* the pump (solved by insulating foam + decoupling)
* the cooling fan (mask it, on one side by the rad, on the other by the case innards or foam, make sure the sound waves cannot escape easily)
* the drives (put them in those fine silentmaxx enclosures if you've got ATA, no need to watercool them at all)
See ? No blow-out fan in the equation. Use the draft created by the cooling fan as a start, and natural convection will do the rest. Ah and put a chimney on top.

Originally Posted by jackal2513

2) a single 80mm fan on a heatercore will cool diddly squat... let alone cpu+gpu+NB+mosfets+psu+HD's.... it realise TOTALLY on fan airflow whereas that huge innovatek rad will cool with just convection the equivalent of a dual 120mm radiator. Add one small fan and it makes a marked difference.

Nobody told you to put a 80mm fan on a heatercore. As for cooling CPU+GPU+NB with a single low-power 120mm it's easily done (and with sufficient water pump power, accessories as well).

Originally Posted by jackal2513

3) i dot want teh space issues that rads and heatercores bring....

Get a good case and build it around the radiator. Or go the custom way. Never told you it was easy... You stated a very though goal to reach, don't think there's an easy solution.

Originally Posted by jackal2513

the large passive rad on the side of the case not only looks a million times better

This is purely subjective. I'll only state (objectively) that you can hide almost entirely a heatercore inside a case, or at least make it 'stealthy'. If you want subjective opinion, a completely stealth black case with no protrusion is the ideal, rads (esp. that innovatek monster) are quite ugly...

Originally Posted by jackal2513

but is far neater and allows more space for a pump enclosure and tidy wiring etc...

Again choose a case that is suitable, or build one. Cooler Master, Lian Li make good candidates.

Originally Posted by jackal2513

4) I hate heatercores, purely by pure virtue of teh fact that every forum you ever go to always bangs on about them.

And so what. There are even proofs that they are the best for watercooling PC's.
They provide excellent cooling ability in a (relatively) small package, and one can integrate them inside a case so they aren't obtrusive to the sight. If you really want to ignore the best solution, your choice.

Originally Posted by jackal2513

as for the PSU, you're right up to a point..... really good fanless PSU's are good ina system that hes decent airflow but in a system with maybe just one fan its my belief that they will soon either:

1) fry
2) switch on their backup fan if they have one

Ah-aahhh. Maybe i'm just lucky, but mine (Yesico 420W) still holds up very fine with ZERO airflow (no backup fan)... It even survived a hot summer and 24/24 operation of a fast machine with 15K rpm SCSI drives... And i tend to believe most will do fine in these conditions. They are designed to withstand high temps and high loads. I think it was our Belgian friends who tested it in adverse conditions (incredibly high loads overnight, zero airflow) and it didn't even flinch. This is due to high quality components - they come at a price, though...

[Etacovda]

If you dont want your psu's fan to ramp up, isolate the psu from the rest of the cases heat...

Even a tiny amount of airflow above the motherboard will greatly increase stability, but if you're w/c'ing near on everything you'll probably get away with it. Personally id design a 'bottom to top' venting system in line with the motherboard to assist in drawing the heat away.

Good 120's are hard to find - but if you get the right ones, as gmat said, they're miles superior to 80's. Yateloons, papsts, nexus are the highly rated quiet 120's.

[gmat]

These are generally good fan brands, i'd add some suprising models from Delta and Adda i've come across, and some oddities from NMB Tech. See, there's some choice :P