Why is waterwetter regarded as poo?

[Jimbo Mahoney]

Just want some facts as to why waterwetter is seen as inferior / useless etc.

I did come across a humourous comment in another forum:

'Water Wetter foams like a mad dog, smells like a dead one and is about as useful'



Now I've used it before and I agree it doesn't smell nice, but I had no other problems.

What are the pros and cons?

Anyone have any experience of it being detrimental in some way?

Thanks.

Concerned potential WW user...

[pHaestus]

water wetter in recommended doses for normal users is fine. BillA and myself (and probably others) have seen white gunk buildup when using water wetter in test systems though. I personally believe this is because of the higher than normal temperatures that our water is sometimes subjected to. Antifreeze w/ additives and water wetter all have silicates and molybdnates and such in them that can start to form solids and screw things up above 35C or so. If you're going to have problems with high water temps because you're passively cooling the water, because you're running big pelts, or because you're testing radiators with a lab water bath or something then I'd avoid it. Otherwise it's probably "ok".

[Marci]

It foams if you put too much in or put it in too quickly...
It smells bad - yep, but so what? Do you sit with your nose over your pipes all day? At the end of the day it's closed loop so smell is irrelevant, and the only time you do get the smell is when you empty it and sling it down the sink...

As it foamed, he'd put too much in, so silicates etc in higher conecntration = more to precipitate out = white gunk etc appearing, and would therefore appear "useless" if white gunk was misinterpreted as signs of algae etc.

[Dave]

I wrote my first paper for the S.A.E, on this and other coolant additives.

In my studies I found that Water Wetter will separate from the water and buildup in small passages and low flow areas. It will also build up around shaft seals, and result in problems for automotive and perhaps liquid cooling pumps.

This occured even in recommended mixture ratios, at room tempertures.


Dave

[Breach]

This stuff stained everything in my system hardcore, vinyl tubes got hazy, acrylic bayres had bad stains on it, my Maze 3 had bad staining in it, everything. Not going to use or recommend it again. Not sure if this was just the WW, but my system was the same as most peoples, and everything was copper.

[killernoodle]

Yeah, waterwetter has stained my stuff too. Stopped using it ages ago because of that. It probably wouldnt be a big problem in an engine (which is what its designed for, not computer use), but it isnt meant to be used in lower water temps such as this. It really doesnt help anything.

[ToasterIQ2000]

I think I remember reading a comparison of addatives ( surficants, anti-corrosives, anti-foam, biocides ..) at overclockers.com that said some of the addatives in water-wetter were much more antagonistic to plastics. Seemed at the time to me a plasible explanation of why one of my (low budget) flowmeters was jamming: some water-wetter component permeating & sewelling the bearings.
Also, hoses took a color, more hairline cracks near torqued acrylics. I suspect it may have permanently softened the plastic in an eheim as well.

Stiching together pH-s "35C or so...high water temps because you're passively cooling..." and Marci's "so what? Do you sit with your nose over your pipes all day?" with a yes and a yes (~ 250 watts waste heat sustained average, 100% passively cooled, fanless, silent, sometimes 24/7 in a small room ... spill a drop filling and whiff it for a month whenever the rig hits 35...) all the fancier addatives smell more. A high mix (20-25% ?) of almost pure ethyene glycol or propylene glycol with mild anticorrosives only -- like from a solar heating or hydronics outlet, the stuff that implies "some day your child or pet will chug a load of this and it won't kill them or lobotamize them..." -- that's easier on the nose, but hard on temps.

[cougem]

Overclockers did an excellent piece:

Part 1
Part 2

[Breach]

what additives are you all personally using?

I used to be all for WW until my loop looked like I had milk in there for a week, trying to decide on my next solution.

And yes excellent article, a must read if you dont know the differances between things.

While we are on the subject of water solutions, can food coloring have any adverse affects on cooling or the system itself?

[Marci]

5% Zerex, 95% distilled water.

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by Der Brewling

what additives are you all personally using?

I've been using Zerex Racing Coolant for a number of years - in a number of systems I've built for other folks as well as the one I'm personally using. I'm using it in a 10% mix with distilled water, as recommended by the manufacturer. I suspect there are more appropriate additive packages, but I've used racing coolant in automotive applications (race bikes) with good luck, had a couple of gallons on hand, tried it in my very first system and it was fine... The comment about anti-corrosion additive packages for hydronics heating systems has me thinking - although hydronics are typically all copper/brass or copper/brass/steel/plastic, aren't they?

On a related note, there's a (IMHO very wrong-headed) discussion of water cooling additives over on the silent pc watercooling forum (reserator-land). I'm not chemist, so maybe using a 3% mixture when the manufacturer recommends 10% is actually fine - but it seems like a fairly dumb idea to me

Caveat - the no-problem systems using ZRC:
- are built with opaque silicone tubing - I don't care about water color or staining, if any.
- tend to run 24/7 - so very little heat cycling
- don't demonstrate any biocide-capabilities of ZRC (even though no problems) as there's no exposure to light - I've never seen anything growing in the "top up" bottles of pre-mix I leave with system owners so maybe it actualy discourages growth - I dunno.

[Jimbo Mahoney]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

...white gunk buildup when using water wetter in test systems though. I personally believe this is because of the higher than normal temperatures that our water is sometimes subjected to. Antifreeze w/ additives and water wetter all have silicates and molybdnates and such in them that can start to form solids and screw things up above 35C or so.

That's it. I remember now.

I had MAJOR buildup once when I used automotive anti-freeze.

I'll put the waterwetter in the car and get some Zerex then

[pHaestus]

In my normal systems I use 10% propylene glycol (Fisher reagent grade)/90% 18MOhm d-dei water (from my Barnstead NanoPure system at work). But I'm a weirdo

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by Marci

5% Zerex, 95% distilled water.

Do you use the same mix in your racing rigs (assuming glycol is banned from the tracks there like it is here) or are they air cooled? I've just been going on the assumption (and, yes I fully appreciate what you can do with that word) that Valvoline/Zerex would not add "extra" anti-corrosion to the package.
Not that I think anything other than distilled water is necessary for a coper/brass/plastic system - but I do have a few out there with mixed metals...
Glad to be corrected by someone who knows this stuff...

[Jimbo Mahoney]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

In my normal systems I use 10% propylene glycol (Fisher reagent grade)/90% 18MOhm d-dei water (from my Barnstead NanoPure system at work). But I'm a weirdo

Hey dude,

I'm going to use Zerex now and luckily I know someone who very kindly gave me some UltraPure water:

http://www.millipore.com/catalogue.nsf/docs/C7658

It's 5 litres, so hopefully it'll be enough for two fills...

I have found out that my radiator is aluminium (or aluminum for you guys ) I was told it was copper. Inside, it looks like brass, but I scraped a small amount of paint off and it looks silver....

[Cyco-Dude]

i use WW with no ill effects. i've had no white build-ups, no problems with things growing in my system, no major corrosion that i can detect...only a very slight pink / brownish tinting on my tygon tubing. i use a mix of 4oz / gal.

[Arivaldo]

I use de-ionized water + 3% Purple Ice + 3% automotive Ethilene-glicol additive. All copper and still clear after 6 months 24/7 closed loop.

[Dave]

Jim, you had a build up with an SAE numbered automotive product?

If so please provide details.

Dave Burgess S.A.E

[dacooltech]

We stopped offering WW years ago once Zerex Racing Super Coolant became available ...
I personally use 5% Zerex RSC with similar metals (i.e. all copper parts), and 10-15% Zerex RSC with dissimilar metals (i.e. copper and AL parts)

[Jimbo Mahoney]

Originally Posted by Dave

Jim, you had a build up with an SAE numbered automotive product?

If so please provide details.

Dave Burgess S.A.E

SAE numbered?

:shrug:

Sorry dude, no idea what that means. I'm in the UK and I just tried some car antifreeze from Halfords. It's blue in colour.

[Jimbo Mahoney]

Originally Posted by dacooltech

I personally use 5% Zerex RSC with similar metals (i.e. all copper parts), and 10-15% Zerex RSC with dissimilar metals (i.e. copper and AL parts)

In that case, I'll use a 4oz container per litre then (approx. 10 - 12%)

Thanks.

[El]v[0IsEv1L]

I currently use Swiftech HydrX Coolant. I haven't found anything else that does not foam up and that also protects my Swiftech Thermoelectric setup the way this coolant does.

I used to use Purple Ice Radiator coolant... back in the day with my old AthlonXP. I also use a Swiftech block the MCW462-UH. I learned the hard way what a bad coolant can do when mixed with Distilled water.

The block disintergrated... I was playing UT2K3 when all of a sudden I heard a high pitched squeels.. the block had sprung a leak. I turned off the system to see what was happening.. took the block out.. and opened it up to see if I could patch the leak.

The whole inside of the block was crumbling apart.

Ever since I switched to HydrX I have not had ANY issues whatsoever. That's why I use it.