Optimal-Air-trap-Design

[V12|V12]

Argh, forget to post the pics

[bigben2k]

V12*2: I like that design, but it's really big.

I prefer to work with PVC fittings, because it's so much easier, although somewhat limiting at times.

I'd run a 1 1/2" PVC tube horizontally, from the back to the front of the case, with a tee in the middle, for the air to escape, and for a liquid inlet (through the top of the case). Alternatively, the fill point could protrude from the back of the case, so the flow would have to be front-to-back. Either way, the fill point needs to be downstream.

The problem with that, is that it can call for sacrificing the top 1 or two drive bays, or make it shorter to avoid the sacrifice, but that requires very careful measurements.

[V12|V12]

BB, well actually with my planned design, you don't HAVE to have the PVC tube that large, it could be 1-1/2x2,3,4 etc... or 2", just as long as it holds a decent amount of water. The way I perceive the design to be is a 2 part; 1-part PASSIVE airtrap, and 1-part ACTIVE Resevior. Also, if space is a factor, which it usually is, unless you're a full-tower junky there are MANY control factors to how active/passive you want it:

1) Res size will determine just how much turbulence buffering you'll have and amount of available water for system.

2) "T-splitter" size will determine just how passive/active your air-trap portion will function, it will also be a turbulence control factor (larger = more efficient at releasing air and less turbulence/velocity of incoming water)

3) The little plastic-slit could be adjusted (working on a way how to NOT glue it, but have it held securely) to also control for the actual amount or % of incoming water+air that will flow up into the Res part itself.

Damn it, the Fashion bug has hit me... I used to be TOTALLY in to function over form, but now, I just love me some CLEAR plexi/lucite to show off the goods (mainly glowing UV dye in water, ha!) So I need to find a local place that carries nice size clear PVC and such. Ordering online is too much $$/ft....

[V12|V12]

Okay, here it is, my FINAL attempt at making this old project Res/Trap work! And I must say, after HOURS and DAYS of waiting for GOOP+Epoxy to dry, the damn thing WORKS and VERY well I might add! I would like to start another one like the one I've previously posted about, but I think I've drained my patience batteries and will have to settle with this one for now... But to get to the pic; the whole idea was to find a way to minimize turbulence around the outlet while not to hamper too much inlet flow rate. The reason I chose the the barrier approach was, basically to stop the "fountain-effect," which in turn, creates MORE air than the Res/Trap can catch.

Problems:

1) In order for the barrier to work properly, there has to be a set amount (maybe 1/2?) of water in the res in order to buffer the incoming flow rate (High!) I've got a little over half and it works.

2) Barrier adds more strain on -->PUMP--HC--CPU--Res/Trap-->

3) If Water drops below set point ("x" ~1/2), MORE bubbles will be created!

Fixes:
1) Heh, if I knew that, I would have done it :P

Conclusion: I think it works nicely, considering there was a TON of bubbles, which were almost completely removed in about a couple minutes! BUT, again, I think with a design modeling Turbo+BigBen's, there wouldn't be a problem of the "fountain-effect, BUT it would take a lot longer to filer out air...? Also, ideally, the contraption should be able to function with as little water in the res as possible (not that I recommend that!) while still filtering out air and NOT creating more... Well best of luck to all of you, hope you learn something/anything for my trials and pretty much LOTS of trouble! haha Bye.

[Razor6]

Is fountaining a big problem? In my res there is about 6" of water column above the inlet and the surface of the water only gets a moderate ripple. I'm flowing about 2gpm through the 1/2" barb to give an idea of velocity.

A clear airtrap/resevoir sphere would look cool.

[LeadSalad]

Alright, I'm assembling my first watercooling system and I'm not yet sure where to gather parts. I like Scompracer's submarine air breather idea but I don't know where to get the cup and seals. And I like Turbokeu's clear plexiglass/pvc res and I'd like to know where he got the plexiglass and endcaps from. I'd also like to know where to get brass barbs or polyurethane barbs from if any hardware stores carry them, otherwise I'll resort to ordering them online.

[sn_85]

most of things u saw can be bought from a home depot, lowes, or even walmart. also try some local hardware stores or a plumbing store. turbokeu lives in belgium so unless u wanna make a round trip then just try locally. barbs are sold at hardware stores. remember you dont have to buy each part separetely, if u get crafty enough and goto walmart or somewhere u could buy an item that will suit ur needs and just modify to where it works and you can have a nice rez.

[Brians256]

The hard part is the large diameter clear tubing. You can, however, use wierd stuff like 16 oz pepsi bottles.



Just remember to peel back the labeling around the junctions to prevent leakage. You need to have the plastic bottle surface have a clean surface for the plumber's goop to stick to.

[V12|V12]

Originally posted by LeadSalad
Alright, I'm assembling my first watercooling system and I'm not yet sure where to gather parts. I like Scompracer's submarine air breather idea but I don't know where to get the cup and seals. And I like Turbokeu's clear plexiglass/pvc res and I'd like to know where he got the plexiglass and endcaps from. I'd also like to know where to get brass barbs or polyurethane barbs from if any hardware stores carry them, otherwise I'll resort to ordering them online.

1) You can get them at a Home Depot, Lowes, ACE-Hardware store, or just about ANY plumbing supplier... Or you can go the REAL cheap way that I do, and hop on your bike etc, and venture down to the nearest construction site or scrap yard and there will be just about everything that you need! Or a Walmart, Meijer, and just modify one of them clear food storage containers (Actually, DAMN IT! I should have done that 1st, before all this PVC modding and lucite windows )

2)Again Brass/nylon barbs etc... can be found at any plumbing supplier, but they don't come cheap there! So I would stick with a general hardware store.... Good luck

[#Rotor]

Ok now, I'm running completely reservoir less, right now.


Slideshow

the pump at the lowest point, and the rad way up at the top, fittings, pointing down. Obviously this is bad news for filling her up.... I can attest to that myself....

a small alteration to the top tank of the heater core, made small change of any difficulties there.

I guess my question is, why the need for an airtrap.

[LeadSalad]

Well, I found a supplier for great hollow acrylic cylinders, Tap Plastics. Now I need to dust off my rusty copper soldering skills and make this thing.

[Turbokeu]

Originally posted by #Rotor
Ok now, I'm running completely reservoir less, right now.

the pump at the lowest point, and the rad way up at the top, fittings, pointing down. Obviously this is bad news for filling her up.... I can attest to that myself....

a small alteration to the top tank of the heater core, made small change of any difficulties there.

I guess my question is, why the need for an airtrap.

Hi #Rotor,
I like your rad intake, but where is the warm air of your rad & PSU going?

CD

BTW, I like your slippers too...

[sn_85]

i think they qualify as heavy duty work boots.

[Schwartz]

One question before I go experimenting with resevoirs... Is there no great advantage to putting the res directly on the pump intake?

I've noticed none of these designs do that?

George

[bigben2k]

It'll work just as well, if it's well designed.

The problem is that if you have the res open (during maintenance?) and there's a leak at the top of the loop, everything will come flooding down. Good for detecting leaks, and directing a flood... but otherwise annoying.

Also, any remaining air will get trapped at the top of the loop, until the pump turns on... probably.

[Zhentar]

Originally posted by Schwartz
One question before I go experimenting with resevoirs... Is there no great advantage to putting the res directly on the pump intake?

I've noticed none of these designs do that?

George

It does say not to obstruct the intake side, but this is to prevent air in the pump. In a closed loop it won't matter.

Well, thats not exactly it, I don't know how to describe it, but it doesn't matter ina closed loop.

though I could be wrong.

[#Rotor]

but where is the warm air of your rad & PSU going?

well the rad-fan, at the back, pulls air out . The PSU, I flipped it's fan to also pull air forward out the front of the box.


anyone care to enlighten me as to why an air-trap is required, if it's easily possible to purge all the air in a closed loop.

[V12|V12]

Well, I found a supplier for great hollow acrylic cylinders, Tap Plastics. Now I need to dust off my rusty copper soldering skills and make this thing.

Where is this place, and how much are they, by size etc...?

I guess my question is, why the need for an airtrap.

Well, You don't have to have a Res/Trap, but as time+heat+cooling of water+Turbulence of the pump etc... there WILL be air-bubbles that will form or be released from the water and as micro-sized as they start out, they aren't really noticeable during the first while of running, but when ever you turn off the power and the water stops flowing, then they will start to settle and collect, and since you have no way to actively trap them, they will only continue to increase... and that means you'll have to go through the hassle (if it is to you) of adding more water. And here's a BIG problem I see; Any time you have to add water or mess around with the system, your putting some part of your compents at risk. You, myself and anyone else, may indeed be as careful as possible, but there is ALWAYS a chance that a SMALL, undetected droplet has splashed it's way on to a vital connection, etc... and then Poof... But hey, everyone likes playing the chance game

[pHaestus]

The placement of reservoir right below pump intake (using big diameter hose) is indeed very important. My water cooling systems with such reses fill and bleed within minutes and pump performance is improved. Read this for details:

http://www.procooling.com/articles/h..._with_h2o1.php

Pay close attention to the NPSH discussion and the link in the article; it IS important (esp as we move to higher end pumps)

[LeadSalad]

This is my idea for an air trap anda crude fill and flush system. I'm not sure how what I'm going to do for a general drain plug for the system if I just want to empty all of the liquid in the tubes.

The input pipe, marked by the arrow going upward will direct the oxygenated air towards the top of the trap; while the exit pipe marked by the downward arrow will take the hopefully less oxygenated water back into the system. The top will be pvc pipe that can be unscrewed for easy filling.

And if I can fabricate a good enough connection that can be attached and detached from the input pipe, it would be possible to drain the liquid incoming to the trap out of the system and pour new liquid, such as a cleanser, into the system at the same time and cycle the system all at once. But I suspect that a t-line or a drain plug will still be needed to do a complete empty of the system.

[Zhentar]

I'd forgotten about that stuff thanks, pHaestus!

though I"m getting proved wrong all too often now..... right when I thought I knew everything too.

[bigben2k]

That's pretty good, LeadSalad. Consider making the inlet tube much larger, to reduce the flow restriction of the elbow. Even 3/4 would be an improvement.

[LeadSalad]

Thanks Ben. It's not to scale though, the res part is 2" pvc tubing, and the inlet and outlet are 3/4" pvc with screw adapters to 1/2" soldered copper tubing.

[Schwartz]

BigBen, thanks for the note about draining... I totally overlooked that part!

pHaestus, it was your article that prompted me to make my comments because I hadn't seen anyone else do this.

If I want to attach my resevoir directly to the pump without destroying the existing barb (i.e. not increasing the intake size), the only difference from an oversized tube is the intake length which is now effectively the length of the intake barb.

Is this logic right?

[Turbokeu]

Originally posted by #Rotor
well the rad-fan, at the back, pulls air out . The PSU, I flipped it's fan to also pull air forward out the front of the box.

Sorry, I was confused by the missing label on the fan, so I thought it was pushing air into the case...

CD