Intrigued by Pelt Cooling... In Search of Knowledge, And a ? or two

Acroam · 07-30-2002, 11:24 PM

I see that people get great temps when using pelts, i was wondering, since i have no knowlegde on installing them, just that one side gets hot and the other cold.. (lol, i know, lame huh?)... anyway, my ? is: Can you run a pelt cooler, nothing huge, just for better cooling without cooling it down with water? I tried just watercooling, but it didnt turn out as planned. Im looking for a different solution to water. I was wondering if I can use my volcano 7+ and a 85watt pelt on my xp 1600 to get better temps?

Can youplease enrich my mind with your knowledge?

comlink · 07-31-2002, 03:23 AM

The last time I've used a pelt to cool a CPU was back when I was running my BP6, so I don't know about higher power pelts than 55W. But I used a trash little heatsink to cool that and I got 67*F temps under load. Later I went to cheap watercooling, and my pipe-plug waterblock sprung a leak and dumped JUST enough water out to kill my Voodoo3

Dix Dogfight · 07-31-2002, 06:04 AM

Since the XP produces a large amount of heat you need a pelt bigger than 150W and I don't think your Volcano can handle the 200+W of load that both cpu and pelt will produce.
If you plan on using pelts on AMD chips then WC the hot side of the pelt is the only way to go.

Acroam · 07-31-2002, 10:56 AM

But with using say an 85 watt pelt with the volcano 7+, will there be any temp difference? im not looking to freeze the cpu, I just want better temps.

Dix Dogfight · 08-01-2002, 01:29 AM

If you transfer the max power through a pelt the tempdiff will be zero and the heatload on your volcano will be CPU power + Pelt power.
All of ths means that your heatsink will have to handle more power (more than twice as much) and will get hotter.
Your pelt won't have a tempdiff between hot/cold. So the cold side will have the same temp as the heatsink (which is alot hotter due to the higher power).
End reslult will be a hotter cpu and a bigger electrical bill.

Edit: Pleace note that when you add a pelt you have to have a cold plate as well. That makes 2 extra thermal transfer araes which will also lower the performance of the setup and further increase the temp of the cpu.

Acroam · 08-01-2002, 01:54 AM

oh, ok. I understand, i also think that it might be the sensor on the motherboard itself. (Why Im getting really high temps, thus searching for a better solution to cooling). Im also using Artic Silver 3 compound, and each time I let the system run for 72 hours (to set in) before I checked the temps. My idle temps are really bad (140 F) with the volcano 7+ with the fan setting at HIGH (6000rpm 49 cfm), and i re-mounted it 3 times thinking it wasnt on the core right, and it is very secure. My full load temps, like after playing a game for about 30 minutes are about (154 F), I dont think those temps are that good. Im not sure, any ideas anyone? those are pretty high temps. I also clocked the cpu back to stock (1.4 ghz), and the temperatures are the same as when it is at 1.63 ghz, do you think its the mobo sensor? Or maybe its just the way that its supposed to be with the temps? Please give me some insight here, i dont want to cook this cpu

.

airspirit · 08-01-2002, 04:52 PM

You're going to need water. Nuff said. With that AXP chip you're going to need a 156W or higher pelt. You'll need a dedicated power supply. You'll need insulation materials. You'll need a decent water cooler. Most of all, you'll need to read up on everything you can get your hands on in regards to pelts. There are no halfway applications that'll work. Don't even think about aircooling a pelt on an XP. Best case, you'll break even with aircooling. Worst case, since pelts are very good INSULATORS, you'll fry your chip within minutes of turning on your machine.

Acroam · 08-01-2002, 05:28 PM

ok, thanks for all the info airspirit, I will look into a decent watercooling setup that can all be mounted in my case. I wouldnt want an immobile computer. I wonder what the normal operating temps of Pentium 4's are.. maybe I should switch to a nice 2.4 or something, lol. thanks again for all the info guys!

airspirit · 08-03-2002, 11:47 AM

If you want an EASY self contained system, there is a Chieftec full tower case that is massive on NewEgg. You can easily fit whatever you want in there (though the case is f*cking heavy). The BIX gives a good amount of radiator power in a compact package. The rest is up to you, though I'd go with an inline pump for a self contained system ... it just makes things easier. If you do that, though, don't forget an air trap ... it makes filling/draining your system a piece of cake.

I think my system (with that case, and stocked with stuff) weighs in the 40-50lb range (heavy, but not unmanagable). I mounted the radiator crosswise in the top of the case for isolated airflow, and the only external part is a snorkel style airtrap on the back side (but zip-tied to the case). I take the thing all over the place with me. The case is so rugged that I could take a hammer to it and it wouldn't flinch.

(It has changed from this picture ... but you can see the large amount of space in the case ... even if you wanted to use a larger WC system, you wouldn't have a problem ... plus there is plenty of room for the second power supply for the peltier unit)

bigben2k · 08-03-2002, 02:27 PM

There's good data at dansdata.com . That's where I got over the fear of using Pelts.

NeosPirahnis · 08-04-2002, 04:35 PM

airspirit, if thats your case did you get screwed out of the PSU support bracket like i did ?

i ordered mine from another site, barebones but even so, Antec tried to tell me that they couldnt and WOULDNT sell/send me a replacement piece.

just curious if we both got screwed. :-\

bigben2k · 08-04-2002, 07:16 PM

Hey, that's the case I'm getting! Directron is out of them, so was it Newegg that screwed you?

airspirit · 08-05-2002, 02:02 AM

I didn't get screwed. This is the chieftec version (half the cost, same case), and I have the bracket just sitting here. I took it out first thing (I'm planning on putting a second PSU on top of it). I might be able to ship it to you if you want. I find it more convenient to have the PSU sitting the way it is in the picture than upright. NewEgg was great with this case.

Acroam · 08-05-2002, 01:09 PM

That is definitely the kind of case I would be looking for airspirit!! It seems like a really good price for it as well, I think i will order one! Looks very sturdy and has A TON of room. Thanks alot for the info!

NeosPirahnis · 08-05-2002, 06:20 PM

dude air, i will sacrifice a cow to you and build a shrine if i can get that bracket.....

AIM: NeosPirahnis
ICQ: 51265235
EMAIL: neospirahnis@cox.net

( i dont give a shit )
phone: xxxxxxxxx
im the only one who answeres this phone, so just say you're air spirit

Brad editing - don't give out your number

NeosPirahnis · 08-05-2002, 06:22 PM

bigben, you have a Gf5? ;p

( i get the feeling im going to feel stupid here real quick lol )

bigben2k · 08-05-2002, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NeosPirahnis
bigben, you have a Gf5? ;p

( i get the feeling im going to feel stupid here real quick lol )

He he, welcome anyways!

No, there's no GF5 yet, I'm playing the waiting game, for the barton core, AGP 3.0 (aka AGP 8X) and the rest of the goodies that come with the Asus board: 1 GB network Interface and serial ATA.

NeosPirahnis · 08-06-2002, 03:02 AM

lol just thought you were a bit ahead of yourself ;p lol

jag_e_fattig · 08-08-2002, 03:25 PM

i have that exact same chieftec case and it is the awesomest cas ever

bigben2k · 08-08-2002, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
Hey, that's the case I'm getting! Directron is out of them, so was it Newegg that screwed you?

Quote:

Originally posted by airspirit
I didn't get screwed. This is the chieftec version (half the cost, same case), and I have the bracket just sitting here. I took it out first thing (I'm planning on putting a second PSU on top of it). I might be able to ship it to you if you want. I find it more convenient to have the PSU sitting the way it is in the picture than upright. NewEgg was great with this case.

I didn't mean you, I meant NeosPirahnis!

I know it's the Chieftec version. It'll be a cold day in hell before I fork out more than $100 for a case!

Dix Dogfight · 08-09-2002, 01:31 AM

BB2K

Quote:

It'll be a cold day in hell before I fork out more than $100 for a case!

Then you will probably laugh alot when I tell you that I paid ~$300 for my addtronics W8500 WTX case. It's one big mutha of case though

.

cheers

bigben2k · 08-09-2002, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dix Dogfight
BB2K

Then you will probably laugh alot when I tell you that I paid ~$300 for my addtronics W8500 WTX case. It's one big mutha of case though .

cheers

I'm not laughing: I also considered a
YY cube, but I think that the shape and sheer size would freak out my wife, plus the price is out there, so that was out.

Really, I remember the good ole days when a case used to go for $25, $40 if you wanted the big tower...

It might get cold in hell, when I build that new comp in 20 years from now!

airspirit · 08-09-2002, 03:04 PM

I think my next case will either be custom formed carbon fiber or plexiglass/lexan type material. I want the thing to have space galore, and the ATX form factor is a bit limiting at times to what you can put together. Plus, if I rack mount (ala wannabe erector set) and surround it in lexan, it'll make modifications a lot easier. Do you know how much of a PITA it is to mount a VCore regulator knob to your case when it is soldered to the damn motherboard? Every time you pull your motherboard you end up risking deadly injury to it. I'd rather just keep the sucker open.

There was a case I once loved. It was 8ft high, 3ft wide and 3ft deep. It had 1.5" supports and clear walls. It contained 4x200Mhz Pentiums and 20GB of storage space. It also contained the nexus for a network and connection for a T1 line. In 1996 that computer cost over $60K when the software firm I worked at bought it from Compaq. I would love to have a case that size that I could mod the sh!t out of. It would also make a nice conversation piece and keep my plants warm in the winter.

bigben2k · 08-09-2002, 03:33 PM

Think rackmount... It's what seperates the homies from the Pros!

comlink · 08-10-2002, 12:08 AM

I thought rackmount, then I thought no money. It works that way

07-30-2002, 11:24 PM	#1
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	Intrigued by Pelt Cooling... In Search of Knowledge, And a ? or two I see that people get great temps when using pelts, i was wondering, since i have no knowlegde on installing them, just that one side gets hot and the other cold.. (lol, i know, lame huh?)... anyway, my ? is: Can you run a pelt cooler, nothing huge, just for better cooling without cooling it down with water? I tried just watercooling, but it didnt turn out as planned. Im looking for a different solution to water. I was wondering if I can use my volcano 7+ and a 85watt pelt on my xp 1600 to get better temps? Can youplease enrich my mind with your knowledge? __________________ Athlon XP 1600+ @1630mhz Volcano 7+ (Looking for a better solution) 1024 MB Corsair DDR PC2100 (2X 512MB) 120 GB Maxtor HD Geforce Ti4600 (no o/c) Last edited by Acroam; 07-31-2002 at 12:31 AM.

07-31-2002, 06:04 AM	#3
Dix Dogfight Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 128	Since the XP produces a large amount of heat you need a pelt bigger than 150W and I don't think your Volcano can handle the 200+W of load that both cpu and pelt will produce. If you plan on using pelts on AMD chips then WC the hot side of the pelt is the only way to go. __________________ If it ain't broke, fix it. Setup: Dual Duron 1100 \| Voodoo 3 2000 \| Addtronics W8500(WTX) \| Eheim 1250 \| Car radiator \| 2 Innovatech WB \|

07-31-2002, 10:56 AM	#4
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	But with using say an 85 watt pelt with the volcano 7+, will there be any temp difference? im not looking to freeze the cpu, I just want better temps. __________________ Athlon XP 1600+ @1630mhz Volcano 7+ (Looking for a better solution) 1024 MB Corsair DDR PC2100 (2X 512MB) 120 GB Maxtor HD Geforce Ti4600 (no o/c)

08-01-2002, 01:29 AM	#5
Dix Dogfight Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 128	If you transfer the max power through a pelt the tempdiff will be zero and the heatload on your volcano will be CPU power + Pelt power. All of ths means that your heatsink will have to handle more power (more than twice as much) and will get hotter. Your pelt won't have a tempdiff between hot/cold. So the cold side will have the same temp as the heatsink (which is alot hotter due to the higher power). End reslult will be a hotter cpu and a bigger electrical bill. Edit: Pleace note that when you add a pelt you have to have a cold plate as well. That makes 2 extra thermal transfer araes which will also lower the performance of the setup and further increase the temp of the cpu. __________________ If it ain't broke, fix it. Setup: Dual Duron 1100 \| Voodoo 3 2000 \| Addtronics W8500(WTX) \| Eheim 1250 \| Car radiator \| 2 Innovatech WB \| Last edited by Dix Dogfight; 08-01-2002 at 01:36 AM.

08-01-2002, 01:54 AM	#6
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	oh, ok. I understand, i also think that it might be the sensor on the motherboard itself. (Why Im getting really high temps, thus searching for a better solution to cooling). Im also using Artic Silver 3 compound, and each time I let the system run for 72 hours (to set in) before I checked the temps. My idle temps are really bad (140 F) with the volcano 7+ with the fan setting at HIGH (6000rpm 49 cfm), and i re-mounted it 3 times thinking it wasnt on the core right, and it is very secure. My full load temps, like after playing a game for about 30 minutes are about (154 F), I dont think those temps are that good. Im not sure, any ideas anyone? those are pretty high temps. I also clocked the cpu back to stock (1.4 ghz), and the temperatures are the same as when it is at 1.63 ghz, do you think its the mobo sensor? Or maybe its just the way that its supposed to be with the temps? Please give me some insight here, i dont want to cook this cpu. __________________ Athlon XP 1600+ @1630mhz Volcano 7+ (Looking for a better solution) 1024 MB Corsair DDR PC2100 (2X 512MB) 120 GB Maxtor HD Geforce Ti4600 (no o/c)

07-31-2002, 03:23 AM	#2
comlink Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sacramento, CA, USA Posts: 14	The last time I've used a pelt to cool a CPU was back when I was running my BP6, so I don't know about higher power pelts than 55W. But I used a trash little heatsink to cool that and I got 67*F temps under load. Later I went to cheap watercooling, and my pipe-plug waterblock sprung a leak and dumped JUST enough water out to kill my Voodoo3

08-01-2002, 04:52 PM	#7
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	You're going to need water. Nuff said. With that AXP chip you're going to need a 156W or higher pelt. You'll need a dedicated power supply. You'll need insulation materials. You'll need a decent water cooler. Most of all, you'll need to read up on everything you can get your hands on in regards to pelts. There are no halfway applications that'll work. Don't even think about aircooling a pelt on an XP. Best case, you'll break even with aircooling. Worst case, since pelts are very good INSULATORS, you'll fry your chip within minutes of turning on your machine.

08-01-2002, 05:28 PM	#8
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	ok, thanks for all the info airspirit, I will look into a decent watercooling setup that can all be mounted in my case. I wouldnt want an immobile computer. I wonder what the normal operating temps of Pentium 4's are.. maybe I should switch to a nice 2.4 or something, lol. thanks again for all the info guys! __________________ Athlon XP 1600+ @1630mhz Volcano 7+ (Looking for a better solution) 1024 MB Corsair DDR PC2100 (2X 512MB) 120 GB Maxtor HD Geforce Ti4600 (no o/c)

08-03-2002, 02:27 PM	#10
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	There's good data at dansdata.com . That's where I got over the fear of using Pelts. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-04-2002, 04:35 PM	#11
NeosPirahnis Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 78	airspirit, if thats your case did you get screwed out of the PSU support bracket like i did ? i ordered mine from another site, barebones but even so, Antec tried to tell me that they couldnt and WOULDNT sell/send me a replacement piece. just curious if we both got screwed. :-\

08-04-2002, 07:16 PM	#12
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Hey, that's the case I'm getting! Directron is out of them, so was it Newegg that screwed you? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-05-2002, 02:02 AM	#13
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	I didn't get screwed. This is the chieftec version (half the cost, same case), and I have the bracket just sitting here. I took it out first thing (I'm planning on putting a second PSU on top of it). I might be able to ship it to you if you want. I find it more convenient to have the PSU sitting the way it is in the picture than upright. NewEgg was great with this case.

08-05-2002, 01:09 PM	#14
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	That is definitely the kind of case I would be looking for airspirit!! It seems like a really good price for it as well, I think i will order one! Looks very sturdy and has A TON of room. Thanks alot for the info! __________________ Athlon XP 1600+ @1630mhz Volcano 7+ (Looking for a better solution) 1024 MB Corsair DDR PC2100 (2X 512MB) 120 GB Maxtor HD Geforce Ti4600 (no o/c)

08-05-2002, 06:20 PM	#15
NeosPirahnis Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 78	dude air, i will sacrifice a cow to you and build a shrine if i can get that bracket..... AIM: NeosPirahnis ICQ: 51265235 EMAIL: neospirahnis@cox.net ( i dont give a shit ) phone: xxxxxxxxx im the only one who answeres this phone, so just say you're air spirit Brad editing - don't give out your number Last edited by Brad; 08-09-2002 at 02:39 AM.

08-05-2002, 06:22 PM	#16
NeosPirahnis Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 78	bigben, you have a Gf5? ;p ( i get the feeling im going to feel stupid here real quick lol )

08-06-2002, 03:02 AM	#18
NeosPirahnis Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 78	lol just thought you were a bit ahead of yourself ;p lol

08-08-2002, 03:25 PM	#19
jag_e_fattig Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SoCal, formerly Sweden. Posts: 110	i have that exact same chieftec case and it is the awesomest cas ever __________________ Tearing it up AER - 05/29/87-10/26/03, I'll never forget.

08-09-2002, 03:04 PM	#23
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	I think my next case will either be custom formed carbon fiber or plexiglass/lexan type material. I want the thing to have space galore, and the ATX form factor is a bit limiting at times to what you can put together. Plus, if I rack mount (ala wannabe erector set) and surround it in lexan, it'll make modifications a lot easier. Do you know how much of a PITA it is to mount a VCore regulator knob to your case when it is soldered to the damn motherboard? Every time you pull your motherboard you end up risking deadly injury to it. I'd rather just keep the sucker open. There was a case I once loved. It was 8ft high, 3ft wide and 3ft deep. It had 1.5" supports and clear walls. It contained 4x200Mhz Pentiums and 20GB of storage space. It also contained the nexus for a network and connection for a T1 line. In 1996 that computer cost over $60K when the software firm I worked at bought it from Compaq. I would love to have a case that size that I could mod the sh!t out of. It would also make a nice conversation piece and keep my plants warm in the winter.

08-09-2002, 03:33 PM	#24
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Think rackmount... It's what seperates the homies from the Pros! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-10-2002, 12:08 AM	#25
comlink Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sacramento, CA, USA Posts: 14	I thought rackmount, then I thought no money. It works that way

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