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Water Block Design / Construction Building your own block? Need info on designing one? Heres where to do it

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Unread 10-17-2002, 06:53 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by morphling1
Other than that, good to see you found thos saw blades, I'm just looking at a catalogue here, they go from thickness 0.2mm and up this is a lot better then milling , and arbor is very easy to do, I have one but it is for larger blades, but I'll also make one for those fine thin saw blades, then the fun begins
Yeah, it was a real kick in the ass, considering that that's what I suggested in the very 1st post!

I still have to iron out the details of how this blade is going to work, but if they are available as small as 0.2mm, then that tells me that I'm headed in the right direction, or at least that I'm not deluding myself!

Strangely, BillA suggested (or implied) "cross-cutting" to Cathar, in his design. With this 20mm blade, I'll be there!


To all, I almost forgot... the top is a structural part of the block, because of the very thin baseplate (2 mm) and as I've said before, it must be copper, possibly 6mm thick, otherwise the block might collapse over the CPU.

Sorry, no light show.

G'day!
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Unread 10-17-2002, 06:56 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by morphling1
You mean in the block itself, those two won't cause too much problems and by using ball end mill you can make paths without sharp angles. I know what you want, just straight out water path, but I look how to make something like this as practical, small and nice as possible, and 2" outer hose realy makes it look ugly
2" outer hose ugly? I don't think so... I'll pick up a foot of the stuff this weekend. We can apply our artistic interpretations then!
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Unread 10-17-2002, 07:14 PM   #78
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Ok, here's a tiny problem:
The Robbjack arbor has a diameter of 12mm, and with a 20mm saw, I guess they prescribe a max cutting depth of 3.5 (since there's 4mm of play).

Fixittt, fix it!

I see 2 options:
1-Go with a two pass cut
2-only do one pass

Either way, the arbor can't be more than 10mm, and should be 9.5mm. Would that even work?

We could go to a 25mm disc, but the arbor hole is 8mm, and the (Robbjack) arbor itself has a diameter of 16mm (or at least the screw does, I think), leaving us with a max depth-of-cut of 4 mm.

With a 32mm diameter disc (max DOC 7.5mm), I'm afraid it would just chop up the block completely, but I'll check.
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Unread 10-17-2002, 09:16 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
2" outer hose ugly? I don't think so... I'll pick up a foot of the stuff this weekend. We can apply our artistic interpretations then!
Ok, I'll be waiting
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Unread 10-17-2002, 09:52 PM   #80
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I knew you would like them blades As I suggested previously, robjack can custom make cutters to your specification. Tell them your desired depth of cut. The hole in the center is not the only limitation, the clamping washer assembly and the shoulder of the arbor takes up some diameter also, keep that in mind when fashioning your own arbor. Also at extreme thin dimensions, <1mm, blade strength is an issue that will limit the depth the cutter would be able to be made at. Stacking the cutters on an arbor is an option also for multiple parallel cuts in a single pass
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Unread 10-18-2002, 02:42 AM   #81
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Ben can I ask you if you're keeping the 'cross section' under the inlet barb 'flush'?, I'm planning on sortof 'lowering' the section under it to allow for better flow... I'll have a + with a cresenct dipped out of each leg. do you think this is necasary?...

PS. who was it who made the wierd(and wonderful ) block with a sorta 'volcano' in the middle?. I'd like to see something like that 'micro~finned' with one of these doo~higgies ...

Last edited by MadDogMe; 10-18-2002 at 02:51 AM.
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Unread 10-18-2002, 06:39 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadDogMe
Ben can I ask you if you're keeping the 'cross section' under the inlet barb 'flush'?, I'm planning on sortof 'lowering' the section under it to allow for better flow... I'll have a + with a cresenct dipped out of each leg. do you think this is necasary?...

PS. who was it who made the wierd(and wonderful ) block with a sorta 'volcano' in the middle?. I'd like to see something like that 'micro~finned' with one of these doo~higgies ...
I believe that was one of gone_fishin's first 4-outlet creations. He'll correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure.

Bob
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Unread 10-18-2002, 07:55 AM   #83
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I'd like to do something like that, it's like the pattern/shape heat takes when radiating from the CPU is'nt it?, couple that with a micro fin block optimised with Cathars system...., Hmmm?...
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Unread 10-18-2002, 08:37 AM   #84
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That's a good question, and I've got a two part answer.

The fins really need to stay at a 5mm height, but with a cutter wheel, the center area would get "chopped up".

This is where part 2 comes in.

It occured to me last night that in order to prevent this thing from being chopped up, we could do most of the cuts with the circular saw blade, and finish it off with an endmill.

That's an excellent idea, gone_fishin. In this design, we could use 2 blades (1.0 mm) spaced 1.5 mm apart.

I'm getting into the heavy math this weekend, will report results later.
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Unread 10-18-2002, 08:50 AM   #85
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I have just one suggestion. When trying to figure out how to make something. Remember the KISS Rule. It will turn out better!

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

Remember that the more operations you have to take, the more chances you have to screw up the project!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Unread 10-18-2002, 02:53 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadDogMe
Ben can I ask you if you're keeping the 'cross section' under the inlet barb 'flush'?, I'm planning on sortof 'lowering' the section under it to allow for better flow... I'll have a + with a cresenct dipped out of each leg. do you think this is necasary?...

PS. who was it who made the wierd(and wonderful ) block with a sorta 'volcano' in the middle?. I'd like to see something like that 'micro~finned' with one of these doo~higgies ...
That was me
It has certainly crossed my mind to be able to do the slices more thin and closer together. It would be worth it to test out, but making multiple blocks would be a time consumer with the lathing, milling and slicing, then there is the encasement Practicallity keeps a lot of things on the back burner.
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Unread 10-18-2002, 10:11 PM   #87
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now see I have to agree with Fixittt on that "KISS" thing.... Simplicity is a thing of beauty... and more often than not, the simple ones also work the best...

I dono why but that's just the way it is..... maybe God catching a giggle out of someone's frustration while trying to out-do Him with complexity
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Unread 10-19-2002, 03:17 AM   #88
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KISS is the essence of my equalizer block though
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Unread 10-19-2002, 08:19 AM   #89
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I think that Fixittt was talking about the idea of mounting 2 saw blades. It might be unecessarily complicated, yes. Finishing this thing with an endmill does appear like a good idea, considering the "collateral damage" that a 20 or 32mm saw blade would create.

Back to my math... Later!
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Unread 10-19-2002, 10:46 AM   #90
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chuckeling..... sorry about throwing a monkey wrench into this block again. But I really want to see if get done. Hell, maybe even do it myself for ya. but that exotic method you guys had going, was starting to scare me.

your suppose to cut the block not yourself! Remember that. If it doesnt look safe its prolly not.

and I recall seeing some one mention sticking some sort of cutter in a drillpress and moving the block around with the cutter is cutting. Let me emphasize. NEVER EVER reley on your hands to hold the material while doing this!!!!! I dont care how god damn strong you are, you aint gonna be able to do it.
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Unread 10-19-2002, 12:52 PM   #91
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Stacking the blades on an arbor with spacers will keep the project more simplified. You will cut down the number of cutting operations by half or more.
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Unread 10-19-2002, 05:20 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fixittt

and I recall seeing some one mention sticking some sort of cutter in a drillpress and moving the block around with the cutter is cutting. Let me emphasize. NEVER EVER reley on your hands to hold the material while doing this!!!!! I dont care how god damn strong you are, you aint gonna be able to do it.
Having had a few chunks thrown at me in the past, I most strongly concur!
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Unread 10-20-2002, 04:56 AM   #93
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Quote:
I think you could do it but not totaly 'free hand', if you made up a 'suport' for making straight lines maybe?, to keep the dremel upright and 'carry the line' so to speak...
I was thinking more of useing the dremel as a router, moving the router not the block, BB just mentioned he had the C~drill as well as the router atatchment. I don't think he planned on using it except 'maybe' to bore holes then join then by hand with the router...

I think everyone has tried drilling a hole in something while holding it with their hands once..., once only! . especialy Cu!!, it's a grabber...
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Unread 10-20-2002, 08:58 AM   #94
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I finished hand drawing the fin pattern, by hand, which took me a few hours. I'll scan and post it tmo.

The twin blade idea would actually save some time, but I understand that it's hard to see the necessity without this drawing.



Fixittt, I still need to know what size blade (20, 25 or 32mm) you need, to make a 5mm deep cut. The collateral damage to the other fins depends on the size of this blade. Either way, it looks like finishing this thing with a 1 mm endmill is the best approach. I can still minimize the use of this small endmill, but it looks like a requirement, for tiny, tiny little finishing touches.

In case it's not clear, I suggest cutting the 5mm channels, as much as the round saw blade can be used, without cutting into other channels, then cutting the rest of the channels with a 1 mm endmill. If you're still up to doing this, I would of course get these cutting bits (blades, endmills) to you. I am still offering to compensate you, if you want to make this block.

I still don't know what level of precicion you're capable of. So far, we have a 1.5 mm wide fin, and a 1.0 mm wide channel. The angle of the cuts is full circle, in 11.25 degree steps, with off-center offsets of 1/2 the fin width, or +/- 0.75 mm. Does this fall within your level of precision? What's your margin of error, or tolerance?



From looking closely at the design, I've observed that it's not optimized for uniform flow, but that as long as the nozzle isn't smaller than 3/8 inch, it should still function nicely. I say 3/8 because that's the point where the tip of fin set#3 is visible from a 3/8 opening, allowing the coolant to seperate into 16 channels pretty much equally. The flow should otherwise "theoretically" split in a 1.5 to 1 ratio, at the tip of fin set #4.

It looks like I'd also need a set of "drop-in" nozzles, so that I can run tests at different flow rates. I'll post specs later.



I agree that the "turntable" would be pretty rough. Definitely, the block would have had to be bolted to this table: I'm not that silly! Judging from the sheer density of the copper, and with the little (not nil) experience I have cutting metals, I wouldn't trust it to stay still without a sturdy hold-down.
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Unread 10-20-2002, 07:34 PM   #95
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just get me the drawing of the block how you want it, or how you think it can be done. I review it, and have a friend of mine review it. Together I am sure we can come up with something.

Sound good?
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Unread 10-21-2002, 12:19 PM   #96
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Sounds good, Fixittt!

Here's my hand drawn rendition of the fin pattern:
Fin width: 1.5 mm
Channel width: 1.0 mm
pattern radius: 20 mm (increased from 15)

Utabintarbo is working on the CAD drawing.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg radius fin pattern drawing small2.jpg (59.7 KB, 455 views)
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Unread 10-21-2002, 12:31 PM   #97
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B&W but still psychadelic I think you can scrap the little bits at the outer edge of the circle, not much use for them and they just complicate the settup for making it.
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Unread 10-21-2002, 12:52 PM   #98
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Of course! They have no function, given the distance from the core. They are only the result of the 1.0 mm channel cut, with a pattern radius of 20 mm (diameter = 40mm). With a radius of 15mm (diameter = 30 mm), they do not exist/appear.

They don't complicate the setup, they're just there! It would be more work to cut them off.
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Unread 10-21-2002, 12:54 PM   #99
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You are making two cuts instead of one by having them there though.
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Unread 10-21-2002, 01:01 PM   #100
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No, it's two cuts no matter what. It would involve a third cut to take it out.

Refer to the colored drawing: there is one cut on each side of fin set #4 (red). Since the cut is 1.0 mm wide, the result is fin set #5 (the posts).
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