What about internal pics of the storm?

[miladiou]

Ok, the storm has been released and the first batch has been sold out in 24 hours. this is very good for the ppl who got one, and for cathar who get is developing costs covered (i hope).
But now we have 90 % of frustrated ppl, who have been following the development threads, who did not got a block, and would love to know what is inside (may be it's only me? )

So Cathar please... you said that there will be internal pics posted anyway, so i suggest that you keep the control of where and when it will be posted and do it here and now...(or somewhere else, but very soon)

please...

[jaydee]

Once people get them in their hands I dounb it will take long to see pics. In fact I would almost bet money pH will post some pics of the inside when he reviews it.

[pHaestus]

I posted a pic the other day

Here ya go!

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

I posted a pic the other day

Here ya go!

That does it! I am going to start milling replicas and sell them at half the cost!

[Cathar]

Make of this what you will:

[jaydee]

Damn that looks familiar. Cathar knows what I mean.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by jaydee116

Damn that looks familiar. Cathar knows what I mean.

The G3 was the familiar one. That's the G4 above.

[nicozeg]

Wow! what an amazing precicion work can be made in Delrin!

The round shapes are perfect.

[Cathar]

Hi-res original here. Yes - I was really happy with how the tubes turned out.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by Cathar

The G3 was the familiar one. That's the G4 above.

Here is what I was talking about for everyone else to see. I gave up for a while because I broke some of the tubes at the time and never got to test it. In my spare time I have been drawing it up in ACAD to run on my mill but still far from done. Now that my mill broke I may never get to it. I knew I was on to something though.

[psychofunk]

Originally Posted by Cathar

Make of this what you will:

Pic of storm top

Now that is hardcore. How about the base or is this all still top secret? Can we work out a trade, you need anything from the states? <-- I hope this little guy is winking and not blowing kisses at you

[miladiou]

[quote=Cathar]Make of this what you will:

that's a good begining

what about the other half?

[pHaestus]

wait
Wasnt the prototype I looked at different? It's been a while but I was thinking that the jets were tapered?*



*I drink a lot

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

wait
Wasnt the prototype I looked at different? It's been a while but I was thinking that the jets were tapered?*

At the ends? Yeah - machining accident - spotting bit went a little too deep.

[Silicon Effect]

well we all have lil accidents now and then


appreciate your work Cathar keep it up

[yoshana]

Damn.. that is just a beautiful peice Cathar. Very nice work.

Now... gotta get me one and make it a three barb-er...

Just looks incredible in that black Delrin... poly is dead Delrin lives!

[Nugit]

Internal pics have been posted at OCAU

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...5&pagenumber=5

[davidzo]

hm, boring design, just what the cascade was but a little mixed up in number size and so. The Storm seems to be different to the cascade in that therms, which i critizised so many times, not a big invention, i am a little diasappointet. I really expectet a fully new design, but this is only a better cascade i think. IMHO the XXS was the completely wrong direction with bigger cooling area and smaller jets, this is some more seriously weighed out. The actual design looks much more intelligent from the jetarea, the baseplatesurface, the jetsize and length.
So thumbs up for the good design, but is definitely nothing really spectacular. We have seen nearly the same inner design from Tommytheold already, with his murks3.1, the Excalibur from rrcooler was also nearly the same and weighed good too. But the technology behind this is old, very old...
and the excalibur was worse than the new microstructureblocks in europe with more than 3rd the surface and jets, so i would expect a good highflow microstructureblock to be euqually or better than the storm. This old design has still some potential, thats right, but i don't think it has enough to tweak much more performance out of it.

The delrin really looks good. very nice material!
But whats with the machiningquality? There are some visible lacks in the machining quality. And this is a presentation example, i don't want to know how the actual delivered products look.
It looks like the Delrin was milled too fast, because the stepmotor lost some height steps (in the upper basin). Or the overlap was not eneough. I mill basins with 50% overlap, so such small machining mmistakes get correctet with the next round of the drill.
Anyways, thats only a lack in looks, nothing important. But what about the chamfers aorund the holes you drilled. This chamfer is visibly shiftet and has a different center than that of the hole. There are tree possibilitys how this could be explained: The stepmotor lost some steps again(millingprocess to fast). The Cad Data is not exactly correct (no thats unrealistic). The workpiece zero point was not correctly adjustet by the machinists after changing the drill.
I indicatet the things to which i refered in the pic below:

[Incoherent]

Originally Posted by davidzo

hm, boring design ... We have seen nearly the same inner design ....the technology behind this is old, very old...

Are you really able to say that without seeing the rest of it? I would like to to see the the other side, the baseplate and especially the very thick top piece.
There's a damn sight more going on here than can be judged from a picture of a tube layout. The thickness of the piece is intriguing.
Expecting accelerator tapers, rifling, stagnation region disruptors... laser beams etc.

[davidzo]

Originally Posted by Incoherent

Are you really able to say that without seeing the rest of it? I would like to to see the the other side, the baseplate and especially the very thick top piece.
There's a damn sight more going on here than can be judged from a picture of a tube layout. The thickness of the piece is intriguing.
Expecting accelerator tapers, rifling, stagnation region disruptors... laser beams etc.

No, i wouldn't say that if i haven't seen the rest of it
Try the link to ocau, there are some picks of the baseplatedesign too. looks like the cascade, but less and bigger cups where the tubes go inside.
I find it interesting, that the modifications made to the cascade design with building the storm sounds very much like what i critizised with the cascade:
"Anyway, i think the 52 jet tubes were too much, also in a highflow setup.
Remember the friction inside the jets. Thats not only restriction, with the increased jetcount the overall surface inside the jet also increases and with it the friction.
So there must be a point, where the friction inside the jets is bigger than the advantage of the jetcount (-> better waterdistribution all over the surface)."

[BalefireX]

I am getting the distinct impression that either
1) davidzo has an interest in another manufacturer
2) he is a xenophobe who cannot believe anything non-german is quality
3) he is a troll

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if more than one of the above was true. He offers lots of conjecture, no data to back it up, and proceeds to make sweeping generalizations about blocks he has never seen nor tested.

Maybe I'm wrong - maybe he has some numbers to back up his currently empty words... if so: Lets see it!

[davidzo]

Originally Posted by BalefireX

I am getting the distinct impression that either
1) davidzo has an interest in another manufacturer
2) he is a xenophobe who cannot believe anything non-german is quality
3) he is a troll

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if more than one of the above was true. He offers lots of conjecture, no data to back it up, and proceeds to make sweeping generalizations about blocks he has never seen nor tested.

Maybe I'm wrong - maybe he has some numbers to back up his currently empty words... if so: Lets see it!

No, i don't want to decrease my level to the same as you. Why are you criticising personal things on me, that doesn't concern you and that have nothing to do with this. Not enough good arguments have you?

There was a time, where i really liked this forum, because of its intelligent and nice users. But since i write more and more here, the users become more and more stupid, are flaming all the time and have no respect of another person in any way. Thats truly sad.

What Balefire wrote here is an example of how unqualified and stupid a conceited User can write post when he left its mind anywhere else. I would be hardly disappointed if there are no more real arguments than just this offense.

Why don't you expect another company behind every small criticising argument?
Are you so frightened that the capitalism is eating you?
Learn to live with criticism, make something of it!

He wanted numbers:
I cannot give any specific numbers of the friction, because of different scenarios, pumps, tubings etc, i can just prove that it is definitely there and that there is definitely a point where it stops to be effective. And i can give you some hint how you can calculate it for yourself with your ammounts.
The goal of the Cascade XXS was, to have the best overall water distribution. This goal was reached with much more jetpipes than before. Bit has the performance also grown with the better water distribution?
I think it don't has to.
When there is Turbulence in the game(what i expect), the friction squares proportinal to the velocity, that is what everybody should know who builds watercoolers. So if you double the cross section of the jet, the velocity inside the jet will go down nearly the half, but friction will go down even more. So, with many small tubes and a cross section of 40mm² you will have a worse flow than with less tubes and a cross section of 40mm². Everything clear?
Thats why i think the cascade XXS was a failure and thats why i don't even believe it was better than the original cascade. And that can also be the reason why the storm performs better than the cascade with less jets.
Fluidus, one Member of my Forum in germany, made some tests on this, some time before Cathars Cascade, even before the whitewater.
he measured, that the ideal jetdiameter for a very short jets (with less friction) is something around 1.2mm with 1/2" tubing and an eheim 1250 and the ideal jetcount is 9x. For long jettubes its even more, because of the inner tube friction.
he didn't included cups ore other structure on the baseplate, so with the jetcount, the bpsurface increases also, but i think you can view his very good work also on your own:
http://www.kabeno.de/priv/adf/V1/start.htm
http://www.kabeno.de/priv/adf/V2/start.htm
http://cooling-store.de/htdocs/forum...&threadid=8106

[pHaestus]

No reason to call him a troll. He makes some valid points; the Storm IS basically a tweak on the Cascade design. The difference in the bp is not the size and number of the cups though.

//edit:

You are all stupid kids with no idea of sensefull interhuman communication, is that what you wanted to hear?

Don't be such a dick please

[Incoherent]

Originally Posted by davidzo

So there must be a point, where the friction inside the jets is bigger than the advantage of the jetcount (-> better waterdistribution all over the surface)."

That's a good point. It's actually the exact problem I was trying to deal with one of my blocks, by creating the jet within the copper itself I was hoping that the friction in the orifice's would translate into a higher turbulence and thereby increase effectiveness. Not a particularly spectacular effect in my case but not necessarily a dead concept.
I think the extension of the cascade concept towards a more true jet-impingement is worthwhile though. I do believe there is headroom in that approach, (Storm?) although at low flowrates there are always going to be better ways. I will be very interested in pHaestus' results.


The problem with expressing one's opinion is that it is very often clouded by one's opinion.

[BalefireX]

I apologize if I came off a bit nasty, but up until that last post I had only seen davidzo make negative comments about the performance of Swiftech, suggest Cathar was lying about the modifications to the Cascade tested on Watercoolplanet.de, and then say that the Cascade is an inherently poor design without having done one bit of testing or providing one bit of evidence to support his positions. Maybe I was jumping to conclusions, but when a person presents themselves like that, you have to wonder about their motivations. The whole "I know more than you and you're all wrong, but I won't tell you why" thing doesnt fly for me, sorry if that upsets you or makes me stupid or concieted with no interpersonal skills.

I have yet to read the finish reading documents you linked, and therefore cannot comment on them, but I would like you to know that I was not intending to insult you as a person (though you do seem very happy to insult me) rather, I was drawing attention to your previously unhelpful habit of offering empty criticism. I too await pHaestus's tests of the Storm and NexXxos HP Pro which should settle this, unless you believe those to be biased as well?