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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 06-06-2005, 09:33 PM   #101
Arnold
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I am on my second watercooling rig, both of which were cheap kits. The second (and current) kit has been nothing but trouble. It is a Kingwin AWC-1 . My first one leaked internally where the pump/res connected to the internal radiator. The second one quit pumping after two weeks. The third one quit pumping last week (95 days after first purchase) and I refuse to get another one. I was wondering how I could hook this up with a csp-mag and get it to work again (also which type pump (t or r) and fittings I can make fit the tubes it comes with.) I can disable the siren for the pump (said siren Kingwin thoughtfully provide in their pump/res {wonder if that was because they knew pump was faulty and didn't want to pay for ruined systems}) but was wondering what the best option would be, replace the main rad unit, replace res/pump, or just install one of these inline. I work for a heat transfer company (mgr of a call center for modine) so I know quite a bit about vehicle heat transfer but it doesn't relate when you are talking about cpu cooling. I want to use both the cpu and gpu blocks, and use both radiators, so what would be the optimal flow pattern, right now its mainrad/res/pump ---gpu----cpu---aux rad---back to main.
oops I forgot to mention I am using a distilled water/ and manufacture provided antifreeze mix. (their term for the additive, I assume its a standard anti-algea mix.)
I also wonder what you recommend for coloring that wouldn't void my warranty and what coolant you require for warranty.

Last edited by Arnold; 06-06-2005 at 09:44 PM.
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Unread 06-07-2005, 03:06 AM   #102
peepingdan
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These things look like a serious improvement and I wish to purchase one. My father basically challenged me to complete my watercooling system by telling me I would never be able to do it. So here I go!
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Unread 06-07-2005, 05:00 AM   #103
JSimmons
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DangerDen is selling these pumps for $45.
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Unread 06-07-2005, 06:54 AM   #104
kaotic504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSimmons
DangerDen is selling these pumps for $45.
i tried looking for it for $45, couldn't find it at DD. can you shoot me a link?
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Unread 06-07-2005, 02:14 PM   #105
JSimmons
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Ooops, it's $49 - http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produc...&cat=23&page=1
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Unread 06-07-2005, 04:36 PM   #106
Arivaldo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSimmons
Not ooops, it comes with NPT fittings, at choice, 3/8"or 1/2".
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Unread 06-07-2005, 09:26 PM   #107
Breach
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And a sidenote, MAGs are at Danger Den now
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Unread 06-08-2005, 08:12 PM   #108
kaotic504
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MAG's are getting around! DD, DTek, FluidXP+, and C-Systems and i think limited others. but my question is... when am i going to get mine? who has them in stock?
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Unread 06-09-2005, 02:47 AM   #109
saperboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotic504
MAG's are getting around! DD, DTek, FluidXP+, and C-Systems and i think limited others. but my question is... when am i going to get mine? who has them in stock?
My question is...when is the Review?
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Unread 06-15-2005, 09:11 PM   #110
JfRsQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotic504
MAG's are getting around! DD, DTek, FluidXP+, and C-Systems and i think limited others. but my question is... when am i going to get mine? who has them in stock?
I'm wondering the same..... I ordered mine 1 month ago straight from C-Systems and the damn thing still B.O. I thought it would be faster to order 1 from them than to wait for other distributors to have it since they are located in Canada. OMG, I was so wrong
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Unread 06-16-2005, 07:06 AM   #111
kaotic504
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DTek has theirs in stock. you may want to try them, or DangerDen. the FluidXP MAG's are designed for FluidXP liquid in mind. i get my MAG's today!!! *knock on wood*
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Unread 06-18-2005, 10:04 PM   #112
kaotic504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotic504
DTek has theirs in stock. you may want to try them, or DangerDen. the FluidXP MAG's are designed for FluidXP liquid in mind. i get my MAG's today!!! *knock on wood*
i got my MAG's in today! after i ordered 2 of them DTek went ahead and dropped the price $4 on each i wonder if they'll give me a credit since i waited for them and they dropped the price during that wait. anyway...
Dave- is it ok to drill out the outlet hole? i noticed that it's not completed drilled out. or if it is, there's still some Delrin/Acetal in there that would block some of the flow.

i didn't get my choice of top but that's ok, i'll find a way to make it work in a Shuttle and in a full tower.

i know i'm not the only one with a MAG,there's PLENTY more people but how would i go about gathering data about this pump so that people would know how strong it is? i sold my MCP-650 and my Eheim 1250 already, only pump i have to compare it to now is my MCP-600.
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Unread 06-19-2005, 12:54 AM   #113
Breach
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Id imagine the outlet hole being drilled would kill your head pressure. But I too am curious about that.

*Edit* Found this after I posted

http://www.systemcooling.com/csp-mag-01.html

should be interesting
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Unread 06-19-2005, 08:44 AM   #114
Dave
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^ Yes will kill your head pressure.

Good article though, not sure why Lee's pump ran 0.5 psi below spec's, likely do to 12V vs 12.5V.

Still odd, since we read 0.4 psi over 750 at 12V .

Maybe his pump is getting warm, since it does not have thermal conductive potting compound.

We left it out so he could see "what" was inside.
Regular pumps look like this inside
www.c-systems.ca/images/encaped.jpg


Most systems run 12.5 to 13.5V, so unlike the 750, we designed for this voltage range.

Dave

Last edited by Dave; 06-19-2005 at 09:22 AM.
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Unread 06-19-2005, 01:48 PM   #115
Arivaldo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breach
Interesting fact: MAG x MCP350
MCP350 has almost double pressure, but less free flow rate.
I think it is caused by closed X open impeller. Closed impeller generates high pressure with flow loss. Opposite to open impeller.
Which is better for micro-channel block??? Is MAG enough for micro-channel???






Other interesting fact: maximum power requirement (8.4 W) is at free water flow. In opposite to deadhead (7.2 W).
This indicates that load (backpressure) will not cause any issue to motor or electronics. Could am i right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee "Robotech" Garbutt
at 12.0 V I measured a maximum current draw of 0.70 A (8.4 watts) when water flow was at its maximum and 0.60 A (7.2 watts) when the pump was operating at deadhead with no flow. When producing an 88 GPH flow rate with a 1.25 PSI head, the pump pulled 0.67 A (8.0 watts).
will see...
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Unread 06-19-2005, 02:11 PM   #116
Dave
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"This indicates that load (backpressure) will not cause any issue to motor or electronics"

You are correct.

Is MAG enough for micro channel?
I measure 5.87 L/M using single MAG at 12.5V, 1/2 tubing on a Danger Den TDX block, 5.30 L/M at 12V

Just checked again since Lee's numbers seemed a little low.

I am surprised how much difference 0.5V makes.

Cather has a MAG OTW, lets see what his numbers say.
I believe he was going to test up to 14V, which is ok with us.

Last edited by Dave; 06-19-2005 at 02:48 PM.
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Unread 06-19-2005, 05:58 PM   #117
plywood99
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My Mag came in from D-tek Thursday. Must say Dave, it is a lovely little pump. I too, am curious about the outlet hole, it does look like a little reaming would help, but I will not touch it if there are negatives to doing such.

Anyway, awesome pump......
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Unread 06-20-2005, 05:10 PM   #118
Dave
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Had a some time today, and I tested 10 different pumps using a RBX block this time, just as Lee did.

Lowest pump was still 5.8L/M

Only thing I can figure now, is Lee had some particles in his block.
This happened to me when testing a TDX block once, turned out to be hair.
Maybe Lee was using 3/8 ID fittings?

I also tested our flow meter, using a 19L water bottle, and it seems fine.

Sorry can not explain Lee's 5.2 L/M numbers

If someone else wants to test, I will send them a pump.

It maybe no big deal, but we want to make sure our claimed performance numbers are correct.
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Unread 06-20-2005, 05:31 PM   #119
Cathar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
Had a some time today, and I tested 10 different pumps using a RBX block this time, just as Lee did.

Lowest pump was still 5.8L/M

Only thing I can figure now, is Lee had some particles in his block.
This happened to me when testing a TDX block once, turned out to be hair.
Maybe Lee was using 3/8 ID fittings?

I also tested our flow meter, using a 19L water bottle, and it seems fine.

Sorry can not explain Lee's 5.2 L/M numbers

If someone else wants to test, I will send them a pump.

It maybe no big deal, but we want to make sure our claimed performance numbers are correct.
Since the pump doesn't ship with barbs the performance is always going to be subject to whatever barbs the end-user fits. Not all barbs are created equal with some 1/2" OD barbs I've seen having an ID about the same as a 3/8" OD barb.

G1/4 is incidentally the same as 1/4" BSP, well at least for me 1/4" BSP threaded male barbs fit just fine.

My pump arrived yesterday but it must've been knocked during shipping quite severely as when I turned it on it had a very loud rapid ticking noise that was loud enough to drown out the noise of a 12cm Panaflo L1A that I turned on for comparison.

Pulled the pump apart, inspected it, and reseated the impeller assembly carefully and noticed a significant amount of stiction with its contact with the bearings, so sadly it seems that this pump has been damaged in transit. After careful re-assembly the noise quietened down a good deal but the ticking noise is still significant above the very quiet "hum" that other users of this pump describe as is typical.

Dave has been in contact with me and we're having the issue resolved. From what I have seen of the pump it is definitely a very nice pump, and I look forward to seeing the best it has to offer...
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Unread 06-20-2005, 07:10 PM   #120
Arivaldo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathar
Since the pump doesn't ship with barbs the performance is always going to be subject to whatever barbs the end-user fits. Not all barbs are created equal with some 1/2" OD barbs I've seen having an ID about the same as a 3/8" OD barb.
That is right. I suggested C-Systems to offer plastic fittings (Delrin) at both thread (G1/4 and 1/4 NPT) as well 1/2 and 3/8 barbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathar
G1/4 is incidentally the same as 1/4" BSP, well at least for me 1/4" BSP threaded male barbs fit just fine.
I know that you know that G1/4 has 19 threads/inch with pitch 1.337mm while 1/4NPT has 18 threads/inch with pitch 1.412mm.
So i will ask you to be careful with this.
If it fitted fine thanks to Delrin female thread.
BTW follows mechanical difference for others users who has not these specs.

British Pipe Thread ( Whitworth Form) -- Parallel (BSPP/BSPF)
(important spec.) G 1/4 Parallel Thread - Nominal Size = 1/4" - 19 Threads per inch



Others specs.: Major Diameter d=D 13.157 mm --- Minor Diameter Male Thd. - d3 = 11.445 mm --- Tap Drill Diameter = 11.6 mm --- Included Thread Angle = 55 deg --- Pitch - p = 1.337 mm


------
------

NPT Tapered Pipe Threads
(important spec.) Tapered Threads - Nominal Size 1/4" NPT - 18 Threads per inch



Others specs.: Taper Angle = 1 deg 47' --- Pipe O.D = 0.540" = 13.716 mm --- --- Included Thread Angle = 60 deg --- Pitch - p = 0.0556" = 1.412 mm
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Unread 06-20-2005, 07:24 PM   #121
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Arivaldo, thanks for the specs, but am a little curious. Your specs are indeed showing that G1/4 is the same as 1/4" BSP, which is what I used. In fact the G-spec is the ISO standard name definition for BSPP. Indeed, the barbs largely screwed in by hand for about 3 full turns before needing tightening. No way that I could do that even with Delrin if I was using NPT threads.

So a little unsure about your statement about me needing to be careful about it, unless you're talking about US people attempting to crank in 1/4" NPT threaded barbs into a G1/4 threaded hole.
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Unread 06-21-2005, 07:14 AM   #122
Arivaldo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathar
Your specs are indeed showing that G1/4 is the same as 1/4" BSP, which is what I used.
Oops, you wrote 1/4 BSP i did read 1/4 NPT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathar
So a little unsure about your statement about me needing to be careful about it, unless you're talking about US people attempting to crank in 1/4" NPT threaded barbs into a G1/4 threaded hole.
Yes, i was talking about to use tapered screws into parallel holes, because G1/4 Major Diameter is 13.157 mm so a NPT Thread Barb could be introduced and forced to crank. Pitch difference and growing diameter would force thread hole.

BTW, there is a BSPT (R1/4 - BSP Tapered), which use same pitch 19, same Major Diameter, but with Tapered Thread...

just for users knowledge...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breach
I didn't see anything addressing common size ratings on various types of threads on pipe fittings specifially, so I found a few links.
British and other sizes:
http://mdmetric.com/tech/thddat7.htm
And standard American:
http://mdmetric.com/tech/thdform3.htm
That site also has other national standards on it as well.
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Unread 06-21-2005, 07:43 AM   #123
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The best answer is what our OEM customers do, give fittings with pump.

But since the C-Systems sales site is only open for short time, I suspect the problem will solve itself.
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Unread 06-21-2005, 09:00 AM   #124
JSimmons
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You mentioned the flowmeter. Any pics? News on availability? Estimated pricing?
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Unread 06-25-2005, 09:45 PM   #125
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Got My pump today.. It really is tiny for what it can do! I cant wait to put it in.. my only posible complaint right now is that looking into the ports its a bit rought in there.. Gonna have to clean it up abit first. Hopefully those retailers are cleaning these up before installing fittings.

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