Rethinking my rackmount project

dax · 11-30-2002, 03:54 PM

As some of you might know i've made a few posts in the past about watercooling & rackmounting all of my pcs. I'm currently building the rackmount cases (and i'm making some progress, although exams are holding me back atm).
The original plan was one rad for the entire system (and one/two pump(s)), but seeing that small evergreen unit , i'm wondering how small a rad/waterblock(/pump) combo can be... and if i can fit it in a 2U (maybe 1U) case...

Maybe it would work without pump, maybe a micro/maxi-jet pump (or something similar sized) would work. Main problem would be the size of the rad though...

Anyone having an opinion on this? Just seemed an interesting idea...

gmat · 11-30-2002, 04:25 PM

There's another thread on this forum discussing about watercooling a rackmount PC.
If somehow you can manage to fit a BIµ, a low-profile WB and a maxijet (or other small inline pump) you've won. That would mean 2U though. The frontal area of a 1U rack is too low to fit any kind of rad.

airspirit · 11-30-2002, 07:57 PM

I am far along into an identical project, though I've broken from the 19" rackmount specification. Check out the following link:

http://users.adelphia.net/~jnsholcom...erproject1.htm

It describes to a button what I'm doing in my project. It wouldn't be hard to keep it in the 19" spec, though you'd just need to use a different radiator.

punish3r · 11-30-2002, 08:14 PM

You might want to consider researching the WC/FC units sometimes used in rackmount applications for MPI servers. I know they're out there, cause I modeled one for my first 6 unit MPI.

dax · 12-01-2002, 02:57 AM

Quote:

There's another thread on this forum discussing about watercooling a rackmount PC.

I know, read most (if not all) of them, and i started about 3 of them.

Quote:

If somehow you can manage to fit a BIµ, a low-profile WB and a maxijet (or other small inline pump) you've won. That would mean 2U though. The frontal area of a 1U rack is too low to fit any kind of rad.

I would prefer to stay away from expensive radiators like those BIs...

airspirit: i know... i've watched your project with great interest, and it's nice to know that i'm not the only one

Although my project is a bit more work, as i construct the cabinet and rackmount cases myself too, i eventualy plan to setup a page about that.

punish3r: i'll look into those... no idea what they are though

bigben2k · 12-01-2002, 09:37 AM

There are heatercores that will fit, just look them up in the DB.

dax · 12-02-2002, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
There are heatercores that will fit, just look them up in the DB.

If only the database would be in a useful, non-microsoft format (it isn't that well supported under freebsd/linux), and openoffice can't do a thing with the .xls files either

edit: got mdbtools working, but the dimensions table doesn't contain any info i could use (no L, W, D, In or Out data shows up)

bigben2k · 12-02-2002, 10:05 AM

Take a look at 2-636 (VW), 2-766 (Renault) and 2-563 (GM).

airspirit · 12-02-2002, 10:20 AM

Hmm ... once I take a peek at some Linux based DB systems, I may port the thing. I just haven't had time to experiment with it. I've had ... other projects to deal with.

dax · 12-02-2002, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
Take a look at 2-636 (VW), 2-766 (Renault) and 2-563 (GM).

the GM one would be hard to fit.. the renault one is a tiny bit too large, and the VW one is too large as well

Oh well... guess i'll go with one big rad for the entire system...
maybe use a rad/pump/res loop to cool the water, and have each unit fetch its own water... (big shared, cooler rad, n+1 pumps), that would alow me to use smaller pumps, or maybe 1 pump... bah... can't figure it out, any advice?

and airspirit, the easiest would be to make a small database (even exporting everything to a text file would work) and writing a small cgi/php script and put it on the net

bigben2k · 12-02-2002, 12:08 PM

Hum... ok, then let's try:
2-531 (Ford). It's on the long side, but it's there!

airspirit · 12-02-2002, 12:13 PM

I could probably do an imported PERL associative array structure off of a standard text file bypassing the database structure altogether ... that would be an interesting way to get it on the net so you wouldn't have to download anything ... interesting thoughts you have, young Jedi ....

dax · 12-02-2002, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airspirit
I could probably do an imported PERL associative array structure off of a standard text file bypassing the database structure altogether ... that would be an interesting way to get it on the net so you wouldn't have to download anything ... interesting thoughts you have, young Jedi ....

*cough* young Jedi *cough*, note that i've been subscribed to this forum quite a bit longer already

and bigben2k, nope, sorry... that rad is too large as well, guess finding something like that would be a bit too hard then

hmm, maybe i better try to find a huge one... problem would be where to find it? (lytron on ebay? hmm... maybe a bit too uhm expensive on the shipping side)

bigben2k · 12-02-2002, 02:32 PM

You might be able to get JessFM to make you one, custom.

dax · 12-02-2002, 03:02 PM

hmm nah, custom prolly means high price, and i don't want to spend too much... i also seriously doubt the cooling performance that would be possible with such a setup...
i think i'll go for 1 or 2 larger ones for the rack, still have to find suitable ones though

airspirit · 12-02-2002, 04:22 PM

The young Jedi thing is along the lines of "d00d/bro/cool guy/homeboy", not having to do with age or experience at all. Sh!t, for all I know you're twice my age.

Anyway, shipping on the Lytrons isn't that bad, ranging from $12-20 depending on your location, and you can pick them up sometimes (the massive ones like mine) for anywhere from $30-$100. If you get one cheap, you can have it at your door for less than a BIX before shipping.

Just a thought.

How many computers are you putting on line, how much estimated total W load to the coolant, and how hot is the room they're in?

bigben2k · 12-02-2002, 04:39 PM

You know... if you could mount the heatercore flat down, and have a couple of fans blowing accross it, and exit down...

bigben2k · 12-02-2002, 04:45 PM

Alternatively, if you don't have the option of venting downwards, use 2-658 (3/4 in. thick) and vent front to back:

dax · 12-03-2002, 03:43 AM

venting downward is a big no for rackmount stuff, and i doubt the efficency if mouted like that too...
i think i'll go for a big shared one, just have to find something apropriate around here...

and airspirit, i knew you ment it that way, and i also, seriously doubt that i'm twice your age unless you are 7.5-8 years old ofcource.

I'll try to mail one of the guys selling those lytrons for shipping costs to belgium, but i expect them to be pretty huge..

I plan 3 computers atm, but i'm going to add a few later on (i've built a small 15U rack), the 3 atm are a 1ghz tbird, dual p2 333 and a p2 266. That p2 266 is going to be replaced someday soon, because it eats space (2U for that little power is not worth it heh). And the room is uhm... no idea, more on the cold side i think (around 20°C? a bit less? no idea, 16-17?... and i can't find a thermometer either)

dax · 12-03-2002, 03:46 AM

hmm bigben, that just gave me an idea for mounting one (or a few) big rad(s), i guess i could put them in 1U or 2U boxes like that last drawing and then i might be able to use those crossflow blowers to cool them... hmm

bigben2k · 12-03-2002, 08:44 AM

I think it would work.

There might be some airflow loss due to the change of direction, but hey, it's a small compromise to be able to fit a rad/heatercore in a 1/2U unit.

The crossflow blowers would probably work extremely well here, given their size and low noise level.

Man, I wish I had a rackmount frame!

dax · 12-03-2002, 10:17 AM

Quote:

There might be some airflow loss due to the change of direction, but hey, it's a small compromise to be able to fit a rad/heatercore in a 1/2U unit.

Hmm... in a 1/2U unit, the rad wouldn't be tilted THAT much... That's my bigest concern

Quote:

The crossflow blowers would probably work extremely well here, given their size and low noise level.

Yes the only problem would be finding an apropriate one. Suggestions?

Quote:

Man, I wish I had a rackmount frame!

Keep your eyes open for a nice journal site...

bigben2k · 12-03-2002, 10:19 AM

http://www.mpja.com/

http://www.alltronics.com

http://www.allelectronics.com

That's where I usually start...

dax · 12-03-2002, 10:27 AM

quick search turned up nothing

Cova · 12-03-2002, 02:18 PM

If I were to build a watercooled rack, I'd take a full-size car rad from a smaller car, and lay it flat to form the top of the rack. Fans below it blowing up (yes, I know pushing isn't as good as pulling, but sometimes ya lose a bit of efficiency for design and stuff), and a KVM switch / network switch / etc. thats not very deep mounted at the top of the rack. The fans for the rad would be behind the switch, so effectively using up 0U of space. The racks I deal with are all 42U racks though - so we never put stuff on top of them (you can't see on top of them, we'd lose stuff up there), which is also why I'd more likely put the fans below the rad. And you can mount the rad with either both barbs at the back, or both on one side depending on whether you want to run all your "mains" level tubing (the stuff that branches to each server) down one side, or the cool on one side and the hot on the other side.

11-30-2002, 03:54 PM	#1
dax Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ghent, Belgium Posts: 83	Rethinking my rackmount project As some of you might know i've made a few posts in the past about watercooling & rackmounting all of my pcs. I'm currently building the rackmount cases (and i'm making some progress, although exams are holding me back atm). The original plan was one rad for the entire system (and one/two pump(s)), but seeing that small evergreen unit , i'm wondering how small a rad/waterblock(/pump) combo can be... and if i can fit it in a 2U (maybe 1U) case... Maybe it would work without pump, maybe a micro/maxi-jet pump (or something similar sized) would work. Main problem would be the size of the rad though... Anyone having an opinion on this? Just seemed an interesting idea...

11-30-2002, 07:57 PM	#3
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	I am far along into an identical project, though I've broken from the 19" rackmount specification. Check out the following link: http://users.adelphia.net/~jnsholcom...erproject1.htm It describes to a button what I'm doing in my project. It wouldn't be hard to keep it in the 19" spec, though you'd just need to use a different radiator. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

11-30-2002, 08:14 PM	#4
punish3r Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 34	You might want to consider researching the WC/FC units sometimes used in rackmount applications for MPI servers. I know they're out there, cause I modeled one for my first 6 unit MPI. __________________ Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. -Thomas Jefferson

12-01-2002, 09:37 AM	#6
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	There are heatercores that will fit, just look them up in the DB. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-02-2002, 10:05 AM	#8
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Take a look at 2-636 (VW), 2-766 (Renault) and 2-563 (GM). __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

11-30-2002, 04:25 PM	#2
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	There's another thread on this forum discussing about watercooling a rackmount PC. If somehow you can manage to fit a BIµ, a low-profile WB and a maxijet (or other small inline pump) you've won. That would mean 2U though. The frontal area of a 1U rack is too low to fit any kind of rad.

12-02-2002, 10:20 AM	#9
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Hmm ... once I take a peek at some Linux based DB systems, I may port the thing. I just haven't had time to experiment with it. I've had ... other projects to deal with. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-02-2002, 12:08 PM	#11
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Hum... ok, then let's try: 2-531 (Ford). It's on the long side, but it's there! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-02-2002, 12:13 PM	#12
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	I could probably do an imported PERL associative array structure off of a standard text file bypassing the database structure altogether ... that would be an interesting way to get it on the net so you wouldn't have to download anything ... interesting thoughts you have, young Jedi .... __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-02-2002, 02:32 PM	#14
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	You might be able to get JessFM to make you one, custom. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-02-2002, 03:02 PM	#15
dax Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ghent, Belgium Posts: 83	hmm nah, custom prolly means high price, and i don't want to spend too much... i also seriously doubt the cooling performance that would be possible with such a setup... i think i'll go for 1 or 2 larger ones for the rack, still have to find suitable ones though

12-02-2002, 04:22 PM	#16
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	The young Jedi thing is along the lines of "d00d/bro/cool guy/homeboy", not having to do with age or experience at all. Sh!t, for all I know you're twice my age. Anyway, shipping on the Lytrons isn't that bad, ranging from $12-20 depending on your location, and you can pick them up sometimes (the massive ones like mine) for anywhere from $30-$100. If you get one cheap, you can have it at your door for less than a BIX before shipping. Just a thought. How many computers are you putting on line, how much estimated total W load to the coolant, and how hot is the room they're in? __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-03-2002, 03:43 AM	#19
dax Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ghent, Belgium Posts: 83	venting downward is a big no for rackmount stuff, and i doubt the efficency if mouted like that too... i think i'll go for a big shared one, just have to find something apropriate around here... and airspirit, i knew you ment it that way, and i also, seriously doubt that i'm twice your age unless you are 7.5-8 years old ofcource. I'll try to mail one of the guys selling those lytrons for shipping costs to belgium, but i expect them to be pretty huge.. I plan 3 computers atm, but i'm going to add a few later on (i've built a small 15U rack), the 3 atm are a 1ghz tbird, dual p2 333 and a p2 266. That p2 266 is going to be replaced someday soon, because it eats space (2U for that little power is not worth it heh). And the room is uhm... no idea, more on the cold side i think (around 20°C? a bit less? no idea, 16-17?... and i can't find a thermometer either)

12-03-2002, 03:46 AM	#20
dax Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ghent, Belgium Posts: 83	hmm bigben, that just gave me an idea for mounting one (or a few) big rad(s), i guess i could put them in 1U or 2U boxes like that last drawing and then i might be able to use those crossflow blowers to cool them... hmm

12-03-2002, 08:44 AM	#21
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I think it would work. There might be some airflow loss due to the change of direction, but hey, it's a small compromise to be able to fit a rad/heatercore in a 1/2U unit. The crossflow blowers would probably work extremely well here, given their size and low noise level. Man, I wish I had a rackmount frame! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-03-2002, 10:19 AM	#23
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	http://www.mpja.com/ http://www.alltronics.com http://www.allelectronics.com That's where I usually start... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-03-2002, 10:27 AM	#24
dax Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ghent, Belgium Posts: 83	quick search turned up nothing

12-03-2002, 02:18 PM	#25
Cova Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 247	If I were to build a watercooled rack, I'd take a full-size car rad from a smaller car, and lay it flat to form the top of the rack. Fans below it blowing up (yes, I know pushing isn't as good as pulling, but sometimes ya lose a bit of efficiency for design and stuff), and a KVM switch / network switch / etc. thats not very deep mounted at the top of the rack. The fans for the rad would be behind the switch, so effectively using up 0U of space. The racks I deal with are all 42U racks though - so we never put stuff on top of them (you can't see on top of them, we'd lose stuff up there), which is also why I'd more likely put the fans below the rad. And you can mount the rad with either both barbs at the back, or both on one side depending on whether you want to run all your "mains" level tubing (the stuff that branches to each server) down one side, or the cool on one side and the hot on the other side.

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