"Radius" by BigBen2k - Page 18

SysCrusher · 03-12-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
My pump is fairly powerfull: Little Giant 2-MDQ-SC (see PQ curve below). Max flow around 525 gph, max head 14.6 feet.

What I meant about the flow being at 1mm is just that: if you look at the first graph I posted (from Roscal's analysis), it shows that out of all the channels, most of the flow is concentrated at the bottom 1mm: the rest is almost stagnant. I'm kinda hoping that the new inlet geometry will kinda help this too.

That's one nice pump. I seen one at Ace yesterday and debated to get it or not.

I see what you mean now. Your getting more flow/velocity at the base of the block and towards the top of your fins the flow/velocity is slower or almost stagnate. You can see the effect of it in the thermo graph you got from Roscal also. I know why your seeing that. It's just the nature of the impingement. The velocity/flow is faster at the base in a thin layer where the water hits it and is deflected off the surface of the base. Then there is eddies (water swirling up and away from the faster layer), that swirl up and almost back the opposite way slowing the water flow down. How to change that I don't know. Some how you would need to direct the some of the flow/velocity at the top of the fins also.

what's happening on a big scale.

If the nozzle exit is made big enough, I would think about adding some kind of deflector that sits half way down inside your channels and extends just enough into the center of the nozzle grabbing some of that faster moving water. Use maybe, thin copper sheet?

SysCrusher · 03-12-2003, 03:43 PM

Just remembered your channels are 1mm. What i just said is impossible to do. :shrug:

bigben2k · 03-12-2003, 04:03 PM

I'm glad to see someone understands what I'm babbling about!

I'm not too concerned about the flow sitting at the bottom, because that's where most of the heat appears to be, plus the top is polycarb, so there really wouldn't be much benefit in trying to equalize the flow within a channel.

I think that part of the problem is/was this:

a) the simulation didn't have a nozzle plug, it had a huge 5/8" opening. With a nozzle, the flow should strike the baseplate, then exit smoothly (more or less).

b) the outlet had a swirl going on, which may have had a certain effect: that's been fixed (curved outside wall is now square, and the outlets within the top have been made larger).

As for adding deflectors, I wouldn't do that near the jet: I want to leave that one alone so it can "be all that it can be"

I'm gonna send this to Roscal, for analysis round 2, but first I have to make sure that the nozzle will allow my pump to work within an effective range.

SysCrusher · 03-13-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k

I think that part of the problem is/was this:

a) the simulation didn't have a nozzle plug, it had a huge 5/8" opening. With a nozzle, the flow should strike the baseplate, then exit smoothly (more or less).

b) the outlet had a swirl going on, which may have had a certain effect: that's been fixed (curved outside wall is now square, and the outlets within the top have been made larger).

That seems more likely. As for the deflector, that would be just a waste of time.

wolfio · 03-16-2003, 07:38 PM

I cant wait until this design become reality and ready for some real testing! It's gonna be interesting!

bigben2k · 03-18-2003, 11:47 AM

A bit of non-progress.

I e-mailed Ken from www.lmnoeng.com about a consult, instead of paying for the nozzle calculation. He offered me a discount on the standalone version: $120 instead of $150. Optionally, I could pay $30 for a one week access to it.

Back to googling.:shrug:

bigben2k · 03-25-2003, 01:55 PM

A bit of actual progress:

I ordered a foot long bar of copper, 1/4 by 2". Will be here next week.

wolfio · 03-25-2003, 02:02 PM

so you're going ahead with the design?

bigben2k · 03-25-2003, 02:17 PM

Yes, the fin pattern is final, so the base is definitely ready for milling.

I'll try out different nozzles, until I get it right

LiquidRulez · 03-25-2003, 07:38 PM

Good Ben.
I was beginning to worry that you were giving up on such a promising idea/design.

Glad to see that you are not.

bigben2k · 03-25-2003, 07:57 PM

I also ordered some extra, so if the milling goes well, I might ask Fixittt to make an extra one for Utabintarbo, heck maybe even Roscal! (and one for Fixittt too, of course!)

Finding a 1mm endmill is much easier, now that the channel depth has been reduced to 4mm.

bigben2k · 03-28-2003, 10:05 AM

A tiny update:

I found the endmill!

www.moldshoptools.com

They carry p/n EMS12FtiN, which is described as:

Quote:

2 Flute "Square End" Carbide End Mill, 1mm cutting dia., 3mm shank, 4mm length of cut, 38mm overall length, titanium coated

I save 10% by ordering a qty of 5 or more. They come out to $39.33 for the pack, which comes out to $7.87 each.

There's also a ball end endmill available, same specs, but the base price is $11.03.

I have been googling for more than a day for this...

bigben2k · 03-28-2003, 10:09 PM

I got some pics back from WallWart:

Here's the block's o-ring, that just happens to fit perfectly in the PVC fitting.

bigben2k · 03-28-2003, 10:11 PM

...and here's the completed inner res component:

(ref 22067)

bigben2k · 03-31-2003, 02:22 PM

I found an even cheaper source of endmills:

www.drilltechnology.com

I e-mailed them, and got quoted these:

Quote:

5 Pcs EM2XL-0400 US$4.75/each
10 pcs EM2XL-0400 US$2.50/each

I would try it without TIN coating. This is Sub Micro Grain Carbide and it very hard so wear against copper should not be an issue.

TIN would just add extra cost.

I have never done TIN before but I would imagine it is US$2.00 each.
It is considerable because of the Minimum that I hit against with the coater.
We send it out to get coated.

TIALN is also available and that is US$3.00 each.

At $2.50, I can send one to JD for the top, and the rest to Fixittt.

What do you think guys?

bigben2k · 03-31-2003, 02:30 PM

Oh... the bit specs:
2 Flute Extended Flute EndMills -Square Cut

Code:

MODEL NUMBER	CUTTING DIA	SHANK DIA	FLUTE LENGTH	OVERALL LENGTH

Code:

EM2XL-0400	   0.0400	        1/8            0.25      1 1/2"

jaydee · 03-31-2003, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
I found an even cheaper source of endmills:

www.drilltechnology.com

I e-mailed them, and got quoted these:

At $2.50, I can send one to JD for the top, and the rest to Fixittt.

What do you think guys?

I still have not seen exactly what needs to be milled on the top or the depths or anything. Did I miss it? :shrug: I would like to see how much of this I can do on the laser before you decide to buy endmills for it.

bigben2k · 03-31-2003, 02:54 PM

Hum, actually I tossed out the mod to the top that I dreamed up. All I need on the top is the openings for the outlet, but I also need that nozzle, which is a 5/8" plug, 1/2" thick, where the opening is 1/4", but has a cross in the middle of it that's 1.5 mm wide.

That cross is going to have rounded corners, to match the cross in the copper base. By "rounded corners", I mean where the fins intersect, since the channel would be cut using the same endmill.

See what I mean?

[edit] In polycarbonate, of course, which I would send you.

bigben2k · 03-31-2003, 02:57 PM

Here's the top again:
(oh yeah, screw holes too!)

bigben2k · 03-31-2003, 02:59 PM

...and here's Nicozeg's draft of the rounded corners:
(never mind the extra stuff)

jaydee · 03-31-2003, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
Hum, actually I tossed out the mod to the top that I dreamed up. All I need on the top is the openings for the outlet, but I also need that nozzle, which is a 5/8" plug, 1/2" thick, where the opening is 1/4", but has a cross in the middle of it that's 1.5 mm wide.

That cross is going to have rounded corners, to match the cross in the copper base. By "rounded corners", I mean where the fins intersect, since the channel would be cut using the same endmill.

See what I mean?

[edit] In polycarbonate, of course, which I would send you.

What that green thing is and what you speak of here doesn't match up. On the green pick there is nothing but a hole in the middle. Are you saying there is going to be a modification to that hole?

I am not so sure I would be any better to do this than Fixitt. He will have the actual block and be able to match things up. It is hard to make a top as perfect as it can get without having what it is going to. Might be worth asking Fixitt to do the top aswell. If for some reason the base needs minor adjusting then he can transfer that right over to the top without much hastle. Either way though I or Fixitt will need a dxf of the top and all the measurments and depths of everything. I will then have to redraw it to work with my mill and also make several different drawings for each step.

bigben2k · 03-31-2003, 04:09 PM

mkay...

...but I'll still need that nozzle.

I still don't have SW2k3 installed, and I already need a mod to it: drop the fin height to 4mm (from 5mm).

If I get you the SW2K3 file, can I get you to come up with a DXF that Fixittt can use? (PM me an addy!)

I'm also thinking about dropping the baseplate from 1.5mm to 1.0 mm, but I think I'll go with 1.5mm and if Fixittt is not having too hard of a time making this beast, I'll ask him to make another one that's got a 1.0 mm base.

Let me know.

Copper stock will be here today or tmo! Woot!

PS: Those endmills (if "Fixittt approved") are actually 0.0400 in, close "enough" to 1.0 mm (0.0398 in.) .

bigben2k · 03-31-2003, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
What that green thing is and what you speak of here doesn't match up. On the green pick there is nothing but a hole in the middle. Are you saying there is going to be a modification to that hole?

Here's a pic of the top plate only (below):
(left: view from top. Right: view from bottom)

It is now 1/2" thick (another mod to the SW2K3 file). There will be an inner tube that I will glue to the top of it, and it is 5/8" ID, 3/4" OD. Then, I'll glue the outer tube.

The nozzle will simply be dropped in.

What I need is the 1/4" nozzle shaped opening in this "nozzle plug", with the crossbars that should finish in a sharp edge, to seperate the water nicely.

jaydee · 03-31-2003, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
mkay...

...but I'll still need that nozzle.

I still don't have SW2k3 installed, and I already need a mod to it: drop the fin height to 4mm (from 5mm).

If I get you the SW2K3 file, can I get you to come up with a DXF that Fixittt can use? (PM me an addy!)

I'm also thinking about dropping the baseplate from 1.5mm to 1.0 mm, but I think I'll go with 1.5mm and if Fixittt is not having too hard of a time making this beast, I'll ask him to make another one that's got a 1.0 mm base.

Let me know.

Copper stock will be here today or tmo! Woot!

PS: Those endmills (if "Fixittt approved") are actually 0.0400 in, close "enough" to 1.0 mm (0.0398 in.) .

Get me the files and I will see what I can do. If I canot do it I can bug my buddy to give it a shot. He loves this stuff.

I will probably be seeing him this weekend anyway.

I cannot make heads or tails out of that nozzel from that pic. Can you get a drawing of just the nozzel in SW? or even a CAD drawing? Hell anything from a 3D perspective or all the sides drawn out.

bigben2k · 03-31-2003, 04:39 PM

Kewl!

Here's a *rough* sketch of the nozzle. I don't have any models for it.

(nozzle curvature details on next post)

03-12-2003, 04:03 PM	#428
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I'm glad to see someone understands what I'm babbling about! I'm not too concerned about the flow sitting at the bottom, because that's where most of the heat appears to be, plus the top is polycarb, so there really wouldn't be much benefit in trying to equalize the flow within a channel. I think that part of the problem is/was this: a) the simulation didn't have a nozzle plug, it had a huge 5/8" opening. With a nozzle, the flow should strike the baseplate, then exit smoothly (more or less). b) the outlet had a swirl going on, which may have had a certain effect: that's been fixed (curved outside wall is now square, and the outlets within the top have been made larger). As for adding deflectors, I wouldn't do that near the jet: I want to leave that one alone so it can "be all that it can be" I'm gonna send this to Roscal, for analysis round 2, but first I have to make sure that the nozzle will allow my pump to work within an effective range. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

03-18-2003, 11:47 AM	#431
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	A bit of non-progress. I e-mailed Ken from www.lmnoeng.com about a consult, instead of paying for the nozzle calculation. He offered me a discount on the standalone version: $120 instead of $150. Optionally, I could pay $30 for a one week access to it. Back to googling.:shrug: __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

03-25-2003, 01:55 PM	#432
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	A bit of actual progress: I ordered a foot long bar of copper, 1/4 by 2". Will be here next week. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

03-25-2003, 02:17 PM	#434
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Yes, the fin pattern is final, so the base is definitely ready for milling. I'll try out different nozzles, until I get it right __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

03-25-2003, 07:57 PM	#436
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I also ordered some extra, so if the milling goes well, I might ask Fixittt to make an extra one for Utabintarbo, heck maybe even Roscal! (and one for Fixittt too, of course!) Finding a 1mm endmill is much easier, now that the channel depth has been reduced to 4mm. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

03-12-2003, 03:43 PM	#427
SysCrusher Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 256	Just remembered your channels are 1mm. What i just said is impossible to do. :shrug:

03-16-2003, 07:38 PM	#430
wolfio Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: United States Posts: 8	I cant wait until this design become reality and ready for some real testing! It's gonna be interesting!

03-25-2003, 02:02 PM	#433
wolfio Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: United States Posts: 8	so you're going ahead with the design?

03-25-2003, 07:38 PM	#435
LiquidRulez Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In Hell Posts: 322	Good Ben. I was beginning to worry that you were giving up on such a promising idea/design. Glad to see that you are not.

03-31-2003, 02:30 PM	#441
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Oh... the bit specs: 2 Flute Extended Flute EndMills -Square Cut Code: MODEL NUMBER CUTTING DIA SHANK DIA FLUTE LENGTH OVERALL LENGTH Code: EM2XL-0400 0.0400 1/8 0.25 1 1/2" __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

03-31-2003, 02:54 PM	#443
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Hum, actually I tossed out the mod to the top that I dreamed up. All I need on the top is the openings for the outlet, but I also need that nozzle, which is a 5/8" plug, 1/2" thick, where the opening is 1/4", but has a cross in the middle of it that's 1.5 mm wide. That cross is going to have rounded corners, to match the cross in the copper base. By "rounded corners", I mean where the fins intersect, since the channel would be cut using the same endmill. See what I mean? [edit] In polycarbonate, of course, which I would send you. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

03-31-2003, 04:09 PM	#447
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	mkay... ...but I'll still need that nozzle. I still don't have SW2k3 installed, and I already need a mod to it: drop the fin height to 4mm (from 5mm). If I get you the SW2K3 file, can I get you to come up with a DXF that Fixittt can use? (PM me an addy!) I'm also thinking about dropping the baseplate from 1.5mm to 1.0 mm, but I think I'll go with 1.5mm and if Fixittt is not having too hard of a time making this beast, I'll ask him to make another one that's got a 1.0 mm base. Let me know. Copper stock will be here today or tmo! Woot! PS: Those endmills (if "Fixittt approved") are actually 0.0400 in, close "enough" to 1.0 mm (0.0398 in.) . __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

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