bigben2k, question.

resago · 05-22-2002, 08:52 AM

I noticed your sig. got any pics? what did you use? what are your temps?. could you give more detail on your WB?

bigben2k · 05-22-2002, 09:17 AM

Resago:

I haven't built it yet, I'm still in the planning stage! (your first hint was the Athlon XP 2200)

See thread below, about dual waterblocks.

(but don't let that fool you, I'm clever enough to even help you rebuild your Camaro!)

resago · 05-23-2002, 10:52 AM

I desperately need someone to check out and tune the engine/cam timing/ignition/carb jetting. It sounds like it has a miss, but the damn engine is brand new. I sunk $6000 in the engine and I can't really drive it yet.

If I stomp the gas pedal ,the engine hiccups and almost dies.
sometimes it'll fire on all 8 but last time I cranked it, it sounded like it was running on 7 and I let it warm up and idle for 15minutes.

also if Im on the highway if 5th, when I give it gas, it hiccups and backfires.

bigben2k · 05-23-2002, 12:03 PM

The timing is usually the first biggie to fix, when you swap an engine. That's what you're facing right now, otherwise 5th wouldn't be a problem.

I don't know much about carbs though, that's my one weakness (and a big one at that!)

Do you plan to hook up the rev limiter? (and why?)

resago · 05-24-2002, 11:27 AM

rev is set at 6500 right now. the 6" rods love to rev.

bigben2k · 05-24-2002, 03:33 PM

OK, but your timing is off, that's why you have little power in 5th gear. What are you going to do about that? Do you have a strobe?

(this thread should be moved!)

Brad · 05-24-2002, 04:29 PM

as you wish :P

bigben2k · 05-29-2002, 04:07 PM

resago: do you have more info about that rev limiter?

resago · 05-30-2002, 11:11 AM

it's built in to the msd 6. it fires a cylinder every other time to reduce the revs to whatever you have it set to.

bigben2k · 05-31-2002, 06:30 AM

I found a link to MDS:
http://www.msdignition.com/

You can download a manual from:
http://www.msdignition.com/downld1.htm

I don't know if you have the digital model of the MSD 6, I'm guessing not. There are many variations of the MSD 6.

A few notes, from what I've read:
-don't use solid core spark plug cables.
-if you have high RPM problems, look at a) coil or b) plug wires.
-it is possible to use two coils.

Let me know more, and we'll fix you up!

resago · 05-31-2002, 10:32 AM

camaro.resago.com has all the details.

its the btm model and I'm using their billet distributer w/o vacuum timing, just the weights.

bigben2k · 05-31-2002, 12:17 PM

ok, I'll read over the manual today, and let you know.

bigben2k · 06-12-2002, 03:52 PM

I think you want to look at this:
http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/85551...8547_dists.pdf

There's a way to adjust the max timing offset, by fiddling with the distributor, specifically the advance stop bushing. This should be the source of your problem.

There's a centrifugal advance curve that you can also set, by swapping out color-coded springs. What's yours at?

resago · 06-13-2002, 09:05 PM

whatever it came with.

so for a daily driver, which set for springs you think I should use?

bigben2k · 06-14-2002, 09:54 AM

The springs will only affect the advance curve. The advance stop bushing is what's going to resolve your timing problem.

If you haven't changed it since you got it, then you would have the blue bushing. I would try swapping it with the black bushing, then I'd try the silver bushing. One of them will resolve your high RPM problem. (Probably the silver)

As for the advance curve (set by springs), you have the default factory which is 2 silver (Heavy) springs, giving you the slowest advance rate.

I would try 1-heavy silver and 1 light silver. This would give you advance curve C, instead of A. I think the advance rate can be increased only up to the point where it causes the engine to backfire.

All in all, page 2 explains it best. Page 4 explains how to set up the bushing and centrifugal advance springs.

Page two also talks about the initial timing. The advance curve ADDS to the initial timing.

Let me know how it goes!!!

Buster · 06-14-2002, 07:50 PM

Im going to chim in here with my 2cents.
I don't see in any of the posts where you say what your currently timed at. Im assuming you installed the distributor yourself. The motor your running should be timed in the neighborhood of 10 - 14 degrees before top dead center, and get over 34 degrees of total advance at 3000 rpm. you need to get or find someone with a timing light at make sure your at or near these settings. you can pick up some degree tape at your local speed shop to put on your balancer to read the higher marks ar RPM....
The trouble you are having could also be carb related, and there are many adjustments to that carb to fine tune that trouble (but its sounds like the accelerator pumps are not squirting soon enough). Holley carbs are well known to require much adjustment out of the box. I would suggest a book on tuning Holley carbs, its well worth the cash.
Don't even bother with the spacers and springs in the distributor unless your sure its timed correct, and you have the wires in the proper firing order.

bigben2k · 06-15-2002, 08:26 AM

It's nice to see another face!

I didn't know that about the carb, but I sure will remember it!

Still, I'm betting that the timing is off. The MSD controls the timing, and acts as a rev limiter (set by the bushing). As for a strobe, it needs to either be a special strobe hooked up to the MSD or a normal strobe but with an adapter.

I don't know, I could be wrong, but that's where I'd start. On the other hand, if the carb is off, then maybe we should look at that first.

Buster · 06-18-2002, 07:57 PM

I would tend to be looking at an ignition problem as well, but not just a timing issue. The MSD box does not control the timing at all though. He says he has a rev limiter so im assuming he is using the 6AL box (make sure you do not have the 3000rpm chip installed)... The bushings and springs you mention are to control the advance curve of the distributor, highly unlikely this is the trouble on the motor he is running. I would double check to make sure you have your wires installed in the correct firing order.
Some more info on the trouble would help out alot. Does is backfire through the carb or the exhaust? A better explanation of what happens at high RPM would help as well.

hmm, the more I read his post and what he says happens, it sure sounds like a carb issue more and more. How about if you just ease into the throttle, how does it perform. If I recall you said on your webpage your using a holley 1850 carb. I beleive this is about 650 cfm, and that kind of small for a 383CI motor. You want something from the holley 4150 line, around 800cfm. To calculate cfm needed, multiply your engine size CI x maximumRPM and divide that by 3460. that will give an approx. cfm required..

Like I said though, alot more info is needed, especially specs on the motor.

Scott

resago · 06-25-2002, 09:26 PM

yeah, I'll play with the spring and stop bushing after I have the carb either professionally tuned or replaced, I just don't have the $400 I need to spend on the carb.

ok, engine, from top to bottom

1850 600 cfm carb (probably too small and not tuned)
Weiand stealth intake (sorta like the performer air-gap)
Airflow Research 210cfm racing heads with roller rockers
Comp Cams 268 Nitrous grind hydrolic cam
forged low comp pistons and 6" H-bean forged rods (about 8.9:1)
forged internally balanced 383 crank.
4-bolt splayed block (>'86)
melling oil pump, aluminum water, blah blah.
MSD 6-BTM (boost timing master) with adjustable rev limiter via 6 position switch.
no supercharger yet.
MSD billet distrubuter w/o vacuum advance
MSD pro coil w/ tower

I'm positive the plug wires are correct.

it backfires through the carb.

when I let off the gas, it will pop through the exhaust (maybe a leak at the headers)

05-22-2002, 08:52 AM	#1
resago Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: state of denial Posts: 488	bigben2k, question. I noticed your sig. got any pics? what did you use? what are your temps?. could you give more detail on your WB? __________________ 2.4Ghz Compaq Workstation 2.8Ghz Custom 2700+ Custom still running 2000!!!! Help with Coding www.resago.com

05-22-2002, 09:17 AM	#2
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Resago: I haven't built it yet, I'm still in the planning stage! (your first hint was the Athlon XP 2200) See thread below, about dual waterblocks. (but don't let that fool you, I'm clever enough to even help you rebuild your Camaro!) __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101 Last edited by bigben2k; 05-22-2002 at 09:47 AM.

05-23-2002, 10:52 AM	#3
resago Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: state of denial Posts: 488	I desperately need someone to check out and tune the engine/cam timing/ignition/carb jetting. It sounds like it has a miss, but the damn engine is brand new. I sunk $6000 in the engine and I can't really drive it yet. If I stomp the gas pedal ,the engine hiccups and almost dies. sometimes it'll fire on all 8 but last time I cranked it, it sounded like it was running on 7 and I let it warm up and idle for 15minutes. also if Im on the highway if 5th, when I give it gas, it hiccups and backfires. Last edited by resago; 05-23-2002 at 10:57 AM.

05-23-2002, 12:03 PM	#4
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	The timing is usually the first biggie to fix, when you swap an engine. That's what you're facing right now, otherwise 5th wouldn't be a problem. I don't know much about carbs though, that's my one weakness (and a big one at that!) Do you plan to hook up the rev limiter? (and why?) __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-24-2002, 03:33 PM	#6
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	OK, but your timing is off, that's why you have little power in 5th gear. What are you going to do about that? Do you have a strobe? (this thread should be moved!) __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-24-2002, 11:27 AM	#5
resago Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: state of denial Posts: 488	rev is set at 6500 right now. the 6" rods love to rev.

05-24-2002, 04:29 PM	#7
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	as you wish :P __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

05-29-2002, 04:07 PM	#8
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	resago: do you have more info about that rev limiter? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-30-2002, 11:11 AM	#9
resago Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: state of denial Posts: 488	it's built in to the msd 6. it fires a cylinder every other time to reduce the revs to whatever you have it set to. __________________ 2.4Ghz Compaq Workstation 2.8Ghz Custom 2700+ Custom still running 2000!!!! Help with Coding www.resago.com

05-31-2002, 06:30 AM	#10
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I found a link to MDS: http://www.msdignition.com/ You can download a manual from: http://www.msdignition.com/downld1.htm I don't know if you have the digital model of the MSD 6, I'm guessing not. There are many variations of the MSD 6. A few notes, from what I've read: -don't use solid core spark plug cables. -if you have high RPM problems, look at a) coil or b) plug wires. -it is possible to use two coils. Let me know more, and we'll fix you up! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-31-2002, 10:32 AM	#11
resago Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: state of denial Posts: 488	camaro.resago.com has all the details. its the btm model and I'm using their billet distributer w/o vacuum timing, just the weights.

05-31-2002, 12:17 PM	#12
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	ok, I'll read over the manual today, and let you know. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

06-12-2002, 03:52 PM	#13
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I think you want to look at this: http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/85551...8547_dists.pdf There's a way to adjust the max timing offset, by fiddling with the distributor, specifically the advance stop bushing. This should be the source of your problem. There's a centrifugal advance curve that you can also set, by swapping out color-coded springs. What's yours at? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

06-13-2002, 09:05 PM	#14
resago Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: state of denial Posts: 488	whatever it came with. so for a daily driver, which set for springs you think I should use?

06-14-2002, 09:54 AM	#15
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	The springs will only affect the advance curve. The advance stop bushing is what's going to resolve your timing problem. If you haven't changed it since you got it, then you would have the blue bushing. I would try swapping it with the black bushing, then I'd try the silver bushing. One of them will resolve your high RPM problem. (Probably the silver) As for the advance curve (set by springs), you have the default factory which is 2 silver (Heavy) springs, giving you the slowest advance rate. I would try 1-heavy silver and 1 light silver. This would give you advance curve C, instead of A. I think the advance rate can be increased only up to the point where it causes the engine to backfire. All in all, page 2 explains it best. Page 4 explains how to set up the bushing and centrifugal advance springs. Page two also talks about the initial timing. The advance curve ADDS to the initial timing. Let me know how it goes!!! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

06-14-2002, 07:50 PM	#16
Buster Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: California Posts: 89	Im going to chim in here with my 2cents. I don't see in any of the posts where you say what your currently timed at. Im assuming you installed the distributor yourself. The motor your running should be timed in the neighborhood of 10 - 14 degrees before top dead center, and get over 34 degrees of total advance at 3000 rpm. you need to get or find someone with a timing light at make sure your at or near these settings. you can pick up some degree tape at your local speed shop to put on your balancer to read the higher marks ar RPM.... The trouble you are having could also be carb related, and there are many adjustments to that carb to fine tune that trouble (but its sounds like the accelerator pumps are not squirting soon enough). Holley carbs are well known to require much adjustment out of the box. I would suggest a book on tuning Holley carbs, its well worth the cash. Don't even bother with the spacers and springs in the distributor unless your sure its timed correct, and you have the wires in the proper firing order.

06-15-2002, 08:26 AM	#17
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	It's nice to see another face! I didn't know that about the carb, but I sure will remember it! Still, I'm betting that the timing is off. The MSD controls the timing, and acts as a rev limiter (set by the bushing). As for a strobe, it needs to either be a special strobe hooked up to the MSD or a normal strobe but with an adapter. I don't know, I could be wrong, but that's where I'd start. On the other hand, if the carb is off, then maybe we should look at that first. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

06-18-2002, 07:57 PM	#18
Buster Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: California Posts: 89	I would tend to be looking at an ignition problem as well, but not just a timing issue. The MSD box does not control the timing at all though. He says he has a rev limiter so im assuming he is using the 6AL box (make sure you do not have the 3000rpm chip installed)... The bushings and springs you mention are to control the advance curve of the distributor, highly unlikely this is the trouble on the motor he is running. I would double check to make sure you have your wires installed in the correct firing order. Some more info on the trouble would help out alot. Does is backfire through the carb or the exhaust? A better explanation of what happens at high RPM would help as well. hmm, the more I read his post and what he says happens, it sure sounds like a carb issue more and more. How about if you just ease into the throttle, how does it perform. If I recall you said on your webpage your using a holley 1850 carb. I beleive this is about 650 cfm, and that kind of small for a 383CI motor. You want something from the holley 4150 line, around 800cfm. To calculate cfm needed, multiply your engine size CI x maximumRPM and divide that by 3460. that will give an approx. cfm required.. Like I said though, alot more info is needed, especially specs on the motor. Scott

06-25-2002, 09:26 PM	#19
resago Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: state of denial Posts: 488	yeah, I'll play with the spring and stop bushing after I have the carb either professionally tuned or replaced, I just don't have the $400 I need to spend on the carb. ok, engine, from top to bottom 1850 600 cfm carb (probably too small and not tuned) Weiand stealth intake (sorta like the performer air-gap) Airflow Research 210cfm racing heads with roller rockers Comp Cams 268 Nitrous grind hydrolic cam forged low comp pistons and 6" H-bean forged rods (about 8.9:1) forged internally balanced 383 crank. 4-bolt splayed block (>'86) melling oil pump, aluminum water, blah blah. MSD 6-BTM (boost timing master) with adjustable rev limiter via 6 position switch. no supercharger yet. MSD billet distrubuter w/o vacuum advance MSD pro coil w/ tower I'm positive the plug wires are correct. it backfires through the carb. when I let off the gas, it will pop through the exhaust (maybe a leak at the headers) __________________ 2.4Ghz Compaq Workstation 2.8Ghz Custom 2700+ Custom still running 2000!!!! Help with Coding www.resago.com Last edited by resago; 06-25-2002 at 09:30 PM.

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