Danger Den blunders...

Skeptic · 07-19-2003, 01:40 AM

I am usually one to suck it up when things go wrong and people make mistakes but i really feel shafted on this whole deal and wanted to make a statement to that effect for anyone else out there.

Short version:

Ordered a Vexx water cooled case from Danger Den with Maze4 AMD, BIX rad, L30 pump, tygon tubing, some led fans, GeForce block, the works, etc.

Was told the blocks, pump, tubes, res were all tested for 3 days prior to shipping to ensure it is leak free. Cool, sounds great. They informed me that all I had to do was hook up 4 tubes to the blocks, fill up, and off and running.

Now here comes the fun. They sent me a Maze3 Pentium. I ordered a Maze 4 AMD. No problem, called them up. I made sure I told them Maze 4 AMD again. They sent me Maze 4 Pentium. Fun times. On the third attempt they got it right. However I also got a free Maze 3 for my trouble.

Since I am new to watercooling (1st time), I installed the blocks and started my testing. No leaks from anything I could see. Great! Liked the Maze 3 better, been running it for a bit. No problems I really noticed until today.

POP!!!!!! Flash of light! Something blew, and it appeared to be my relay switch, and my pump ceases working. Ok, why the blowout. Well, I had a leak that was very, very tough to see from one of the pump tubes that ran down the pump, underneath, and the spongepad the switch sat on soaked it all up until it finally reached water vs electrical contact. Great, more fun times!

Well....I removed the relay, and respliced the power wire, and made it so my pump runs continously from a power switch on a station/surge protector for all my components. Great for testing without the need of havind stuff inside.

Here comes even more fun! Well under real close examination (never really looked before in my excitement from my 1st time watercooled box) I notice something pretty peculiar.

Lo and behold, my pump is backwards!!!! They had this thing connected in the following order:

Pump -> CPU/GPU outlets -> CPU/GPU inlets -> Y connecter -> Radiator -> Reservoir -> Pump.

Oh yeah....this makes a lot of sense for a great watercooled box. Let's add in the fact that the reservoir is a bitch to fill with your solution of choice because of where it sits, and the tubing lengths. It is near impossible with this setup to get the air out.

Well, needless to say after hours of draining, testing pump flow, refilling and testing all the connections (after removing them and starting over), I am happy to say that my box is back up and running, minus one blown relay.

My review of DangerDen? Avoid them if it all possible. They make a good block (from what i can tell....but hey....I know nothing really) and that is about it. They only live in Astoria, so maybe I might drive down there and actually show them the flaws in their system (at least in mine) and maybe they can improve their product somewhat. Plus their order system needs a tad bit of work as well.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to let people know about my experience in the hopes they can read this, and make an informed decision before going gung-ho like I did.

Thanks.

winewood · 07-19-2003, 09:17 AM

Welll.. not personally happy about that maze4 claim, but I would have to say something in their defense. Tubing to the equipment isn't their problem. It sounds like you didn't leak test. Anyone watercooling for any time at all, knows that any piece at any time can leak when there is a new connection using tubing.
I leaked out all the time at first, now I don't. Same equipment, different technique. I found ways to minimize spilllage and leaks by the way I cut tubes, and assembled them. I found out that tube clamps are a must on some items.
If they have a proposed setup, you cant knock them, as it is only there to help people see what order the equipment goes in. User beware. Frankly, if you put the pump -> outlet then you may not be highly aware yourself. Thats a "you" thing and isn't danger dens problem. If the Maze block leaked from the sides from not being assembled correctly, that would be their problem.

If they failed to fill the order correctly that is their problem, but I would gladly have the wrong stuff shipped if I got a free block out of it! DangerDen is a good company. I have ordered stuff from them and conversed in email to them. You can't blame them for the assembly leaks though. Given time they will not stop till its right. And that is a good thing that some companies can't beat.

Not to troll, but assembly and leaks the user end, not the companies.

Skeptic · 07-19-2003, 09:30 AM

The tubes were labelled CPU in, CPU out. These were hooked up correctly, and not only that, it would be a stretch to do it incorrectly because of the cut of the tubing.

The outflow of the pump was faced TOWARDS the back of the case, with the INFLOW coming down from the top. This is inherrantly backwards by design since the radiator sits at the top of the case, and all tubes leading out of the blocks should go to the pump.

I blame whoever built this thing, they did it incorrectly. Concerning leak test, I can see possibly my fault as I didn't test any of the connections they made prior to filling and running. Ok I can accept that, however, there are still other fundamantel flaws.

Maybe my experience was a bad one with them, and a fluke. Who knows.

winewood · 07-19-2003, 09:34 AM

Yeah, you may be right. I don't have all the info, thats for sure. Did they label the "out" an "in"?
I find that funny as it would never have tripped me up, I dont read the manual or any form of instruction when assembling anything. LOL

I would read this post it may help you learn from the others mistakes. Bladerunner made a good synopsis at the tail end of the post (7/19/03).

Skeptic · 07-19-2003, 09:31 PM

Yeah, they were labeled "in" and "out" which is why I find it weird they would do that.

hydrogen18 · 07-19-2003, 09:41 PM

my experience is as follows....

ordered 2x - 2inch squared 1/2 lumps of copper
1x - 12 inch by 2 inch 5/8 lump of alu
1x - 6 inch squared piece of 1/2 neoprene

got:

1x - 2 inch squared 1/2 lumps of copper
1x - 12 inch by 2 inch 5/8 lump of alu that looks like it was milled flat then attacked with a jackhammer.
1x - 6 inch squared piece of neoprene that had itty bits of packing peanuts worked into it

the box was crushed

emailed em, got it sorted

got sent

1x - 2 inch squared 1/2 inch lumps of copper
1x - 6 inch squared piece of neoprene shipped in a ziplock(thank the lord!)

the box was crushed

tdloc · 07-25-2003, 10:52 PM

I think you have some very basic misunderstandings about your setup.

You indicate that the outflow of the pump is faced towards the back of the case, and that the inflow comes down from the top... However, in reality, the pump runs opposite of what you seem to think. On an L30, the OUTLET is on TOP of the pump, while the INTAKE is on the front of the pump. Not vice versa; RTFM.

Also, I have to say that MY experience with Danger Den was quite contrary to yours. I ordered a number of items from them a while back, while the L30 pumps were out of stock and they were awaiting a shipment from overseas. Danger Den called me every few days to let me know the pumps still weren't in stock yet, but they wanted to keep me posted.

Eventually, Danger Den still hadn't gotten the pumps, but CoolTechnica had gotten a shipment. Danger Den shipped me the rest of my items except for the pump, and they arranged for CoolTechnica to drop-ship a pump directly to me. That's really above and beyond, if you ask me. How many other companies would make arrangements to have another company ship you a product to fulfill your order because they themselves didn't have something in stock?

Skeptic · 07-25-2003, 11:44 PM

Sorry, should have been clearer. The pump is positioned so the outflow went to the back of the case, and the inflow came from the top of the case. That clearer?

At any rate, the flow was completely backwards.

No matter, I have removed everything and built my own setup. I moved the res outside of the case on a platform built on top so it sits about 4 inches higher than the rad. This allows for a nice airtrap as I have it slightly tilted up into the corner. I drilled two holes and lined them with rubber inserts for the two hoses to be run down to the rad, and my pump. From the rad goes to a Y conn to the 2 blocks, and back to another Y conn into the pump up to the res.

So far it is working like a dream as my CPU temps are 6C off the ambient. Too bad my ambient is a lot hotter here than others though...sits around 30C until around 10pm.

07-19-2003, 01:40 AM	#1
Skeptic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 48	Danger Den blunders... I am usually one to suck it up when things go wrong and people make mistakes but i really feel shafted on this whole deal and wanted to make a statement to that effect for anyone else out there. Short version: Ordered a Vexx water cooled case from Danger Den with Maze4 AMD, BIX rad, L30 pump, tygon tubing, some led fans, GeForce block, the works, etc. Was told the blocks, pump, tubes, res were all tested for 3 days prior to shipping to ensure it is leak free. Cool, sounds great. They informed me that all I had to do was hook up 4 tubes to the blocks, fill up, and off and running. Now here comes the fun. They sent me a Maze3 Pentium. I ordered a Maze 4 AMD. No problem, called them up. I made sure I told them Maze 4 AMD again. They sent me Maze 4 Pentium. Fun times. On the third attempt they got it right. However I also got a free Maze 3 for my trouble. Since I am new to watercooling (1st time), I installed the blocks and started my testing. No leaks from anything I could see. Great! Liked the Maze 3 better, been running it for a bit. No problems I really noticed until today. POP!!!!!! Flash of light! Something blew, and it appeared to be my relay switch, and my pump ceases working. Ok, why the blowout. Well, I had a leak that was very, very tough to see from one of the pump tubes that ran down the pump, underneath, and the spongepad the switch sat on soaked it all up until it finally reached water vs electrical contact. Great, more fun times! Well....I removed the relay, and respliced the power wire, and made it so my pump runs continously from a power switch on a station/surge protector for all my components. Great for testing without the need of havind stuff inside. Here comes even more fun! Well under real close examination (never really looked before in my excitement from my 1st time watercooled box) I notice something pretty peculiar. Lo and behold, my pump is backwards!!!! They had this thing connected in the following order: Pump -> CPU/GPU outlets -> CPU/GPU inlets -> Y connecter -> Radiator -> Reservoir -> Pump. Oh yeah....this makes a lot of sense for a great watercooled box. Let's add in the fact that the reservoir is a bitch to fill with your solution of choice because of where it sits, and the tubing lengths. It is near impossible with this setup to get the air out. Well, needless to say after hours of draining, testing pump flow, refilling and testing all the connections (after removing them and starting over), I am happy to say that my box is back up and running, minus one blown relay. My review of DangerDen? Avoid them if it all possible. They make a good block (from what i can tell....but hey....I know nothing really) and that is about it. They only live in Astoria, so maybe I might drive down there and actually show them the flaws in their system (at least in mine) and maybe they can improve their product somewhat. Plus their order system needs a tad bit of work as well. Sorry for the long post, just wanted to let people know about my experience in the hopes they can read this, and make an informed decision before going gung-ho like I did. Thanks.

07-19-2003, 09:17 AM	#2
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	Welll.. not personally happy about that maze4 claim, but I would have to say something in their defense. Tubing to the equipment isn't their problem. It sounds like you didn't leak test. Anyone watercooling for any time at all, knows that any piece at any time can leak when there is a new connection using tubing. I leaked out all the time at first, now I don't. Same equipment, different technique. I found ways to minimize spilllage and leaks by the way I cut tubes, and assembled them. I found out that tube clamps are a must on some items. If they have a proposed setup, you cant knock them, as it is only there to help people see what order the equipment goes in. User beware. Frankly, if you put the pump -> outlet then you may not be highly aware yourself. Thats a "you" thing and isn't danger dens problem. If the Maze block leaked from the sides from not being assembled correctly, that would be their problem. If they failed to fill the order correctly that is their problem, but I would gladly have the wrong stuff shipped if I got a free block out of it! DangerDen is a good company. I have ordered stuff from them and conversed in email to them. You can't blame them for the assembly leaks though. Given time they will not stop till its right. And that is a good thing that some companies can't beat. Not to troll, but assembly and leaks the user end, not the companies. __________________ -winewood-

07-19-2003, 09:34 AM	#4
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	Yeah, you may be right. I don't have all the info, thats for sure. Did they label the "out" an "in"? I find that funny as it would never have tripped me up, I dont read the manual or any form of instruction when assembling anything. LOL I would read this post it may help you learn from the others mistakes. Bladerunner made a good synopsis at the tail end of the post (7/19/03). __________________ -winewood-

07-19-2003, 09:30 AM	#3
Skeptic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 48	The tubes were labelled CPU in, CPU out. These were hooked up correctly, and not only that, it would be a stretch to do it incorrectly because of the cut of the tubing. The outflow of the pump was faced TOWARDS the back of the case, with the INFLOW coming down from the top. This is inherrantly backwards by design since the radiator sits at the top of the case, and all tubes leading out of the blocks should go to the pump. I blame whoever built this thing, they did it incorrectly. Concerning leak test, I can see possibly my fault as I didn't test any of the connections they made prior to filling and running. Ok I can accept that, however, there are still other fundamantel flaws. Maybe my experience was a bad one with them, and a fluke. Who knows.

07-19-2003, 09:31 PM	#5
Skeptic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 48	Yeah, they were labeled "in" and "out" which is why I find it weird they would do that.

07-19-2003, 09:41 PM	#6
hydrogen18 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 248	my experience is as follows.... ordered 2x - 2inch squared 1/2 lumps of copper 1x - 12 inch by 2 inch 5/8 lump of alu 1x - 6 inch squared piece of 1/2 neoprene got: 1x - 2 inch squared 1/2 lumps of copper 1x - 12 inch by 2 inch 5/8 lump of alu that looks like it was milled flat then attacked with a jackhammer. 1x - 6 inch squared piece of neoprene that had itty bits of packing peanuts worked into it the box was crushed emailed em, got it sorted got sent 1x - 2 inch squared 1/2 inch lumps of copper 1x - 6 inch squared piece of neoprene shipped in a ziplock(thank the lord!) the box was crushed

07-25-2003, 10:52 PM	#7
tdloc Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kansas City Posts: 9	I think you have some very basic misunderstandings about your setup. You indicate that the outflow of the pump is faced towards the back of the case, and that the inflow comes down from the top... However, in reality, the pump runs opposite of what you seem to think. On an L30, the OUTLET is on TOP of the pump, while the INTAKE is on the front of the pump. Not vice versa; RTFM. Also, I have to say that MY experience with Danger Den was quite contrary to yours. I ordered a number of items from them a while back, while the L30 pumps were out of stock and they were awaiting a shipment from overseas. Danger Den called me every few days to let me know the pumps still weren't in stock yet, but they wanted to keep me posted. Eventually, Danger Den still hadn't gotten the pumps, but CoolTechnica had gotten a shipment. Danger Den shipped me the rest of my items except for the pump, and they arranged for CoolTechnica to drop-ship a pump directly to me. That's really above and beyond, if you ask me. How many other companies would make arrangements to have another company ship you a product to fulfill your order because they themselves didn't have something in stock?

07-25-2003, 11:44 PM	#8
Skeptic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 48	Sorry, should have been clearer. The pump is positioned so the outflow went to the back of the case, and the inflow came from the top of the case. That clearer? At any rate, the flow was completely backwards. No matter, I have removed everything and built my own setup. I moved the res outside of the case on a platform built on top so it sits about 4 inches higher than the rad. This allows for a nice airtrap as I have it slightly tilted up into the corner. I drilled two holes and lined them with rubber inserts for the two hoses to be run down to the rad, and my pump. From the rad goes to a Y conn to the 2 blocks, and back to another Y conn into the pump up to the res. So far it is working like a dream as my CPU temps are 6C off the ambient. Too bad my ambient is a lot hotter here than others though...sits around 30C until around 10pm.

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